Randy Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 I'm in the market for a new bow and I am wondering about brace heights. I know what the brace height is, I'm just wondering when everybody says that the longer the brace height the "more forgiving" the bow is, what does this mean? I guess I'm looking for a more scientific answer for this as one of the bows I am very interested in shooting has a pretty short brace height. Don't worry Darkside guys, I may even try a Monster on for size... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 (edited) Mostly, Randy, I think it means it is a lot more forgiving and easier to shoot while wearing heavy hunting clothes (camo coats and such). Don't quote me on that, but I'm pretty sure that's what it means. For example, Mathews has the Reezen 6.5 and the Reezen 7.0; the numbers merely refer to brace height (in inches). From what I've heard, the 6.5 is faster but perhaps not what you're looking for if you are bowhunting in colder areas and wearing heavier clothing. Hope this helps! Dakota Edited March 8, 2009 by Dakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 It's actually not so much the brace height making it "forgiving" as how the brace height is actually shortened. In general shorter brace height bows are more subject to torque (left and right error) than longer brace height bows. The reason is the short brace height is designed into the bow by "reflexing" the riser. In other words the grip sits further back behind the limb bolts and closer to the bowstring. Bows with "deflex" risers where the grip is actually in front of the limb bolts have very little torque and also generally have longer brace heights. This is one of those things you have to feel because it's not so easy to predict how torque sensitive the riser is just by looking. A couple bows that really behave differently than you might expect are Bowtechs Guardian and PSEs X-Force. The short versus long brace height rule isn't really carved in stone. It's an observation that's true many times but the riser design can make a big difference. For me shooting less than a 7" brace height is really difficult for a different reason than torque. My forearms are just too big and I'll get string bit every shot! As an aside, a dropaway rest will not eliminate that torque. Reduce some yes, eliminate NO! The back of the arrow still follows the plane of cam travel as long as the nock is on the bowstring. Hope that's clear. And not too confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Shooter Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 Longer brace height=requires a good follow through but isn't as critical as the shorter brace height since the knock/arrow isn't on the string as long during the release. Short brace height=requires a longer follow through because the knock/arrow stays on the string longer during the release. My last bow before I got these ROSS's was CSS Chalenger with a 6 1/4" brace height, this bow was very critical to shoot but was deadly accurate and smooth shooting. I had no problem hitting my arm or clothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 It's actually not so much the brace height making it "forgiving" as how the brace height is actually shortened. In general shorter brace height bows are more subject to torque (left and right error) than longer brace height bows. The reason is the short brace height is designed into the bow by "reflexing" the riser. In other words the grip sits further back behind the limb bolts and closer to the bowstring. Bows with "deflex" risers where the grip is actually in front of the limb bolts have very little torque and also generally have longer brace heights. This is one of those things you have to feel because it's not so easy to predict how torque sensitive the riser is just by looking. A couple bows that really behave differently than you might expect are Bowtechs Guardian and PSEs X-Force. The short versus long brace height rule isn't really carved in stone. It's an observation that's true many times but the riser design can make a big difference. For me shooting less than a 7" brace height is really difficult for a different reason than torque. My forearms are just too big and I'll get string bit every shot! As an aside, a dropaway rest will not eliminate that torque. Reduce some yes, eliminate NO! The back of the arrow still follows the plane of cam travel as long as the nock is on the bowstring. Hope that's clear. And not too confusing. Longer brace height=requires a good follow through but isn't as critical as the shorter brace height since the knock/arrow isn't on the string as long during the release. Short brace height=requires a longer follow through because the knock/arrow stays on the string longer during the release. Yep, and yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Thanks guys! That helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I recommend a 7 inch brace or higher....more forgiving means ya can move a little more and have less displacement of your shot. The above answers are spot on! By the way, I'm far from knowing much about bows, but I have noticed a difference in my shooting ability when shooting a shorter brace height than 7 inches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't understand why all these companies are going to such short brace heights if they are only good enough for the pros and alot of speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 It's all about sales and marketing. IBO speeds get a lot of ppl stopped in their tracks and will make a purchase based on that regardless of forgiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't understand why all these companies are going to such short brace heights if they are only good enough for the pros and alot of speed? The speed race is the name of the game now Randy. Before that it was "Who can make the most horizontal limbs". Nothing is wrong with the 6 inch brace height bows, you can shoot them well enough to kill a deer for sure. When I am talking about my accuracy slipping with six inch brace heights, I am talking about my groups opening up just a little bit. The reason I prefer a more forgiving bow with a 7 inch brace is because I shoot spots. An inch or two right or left will kill your vegas face or spots score.....now an inch or two left on a deer is still a dead deer! Don't be afraid of a 6 incher just cause me, and a few others don't like em. It's whatever feels best and works for you. One thing I've learned this year since getting involved heavily in indoor competition....a bow HAS to fit you. Bows fit folks different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Check this out Randy. I like this site a lot! http://www.huntersfriend.com/bowselection.htm Nice ppl to talk to, though i havent purchased from them yet, i like their ready to hunt packages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Check this out Randy. I like this site a lot! http://www.huntersfriend.com/bowselection.htm Nice ppl to talk to, though i havent purchased from them yet, i like their ready to hunt packages. Wow, very interesting. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't understand why all these companies are going to such short brace heights if they are only good enough for the pros and alot of speed? Some shorter brace height bows have risers and grips that make it much easier to shoot the shorter brace height. It's a tired old recommendation but you really have to shoot them yourself to decide if it fits you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 (edited) My Newberry has a 7 1/2" brace height and is 38" axle to axle. It is the most forgiving bow I ever shot. With its parallel limbs it is still quite fast. Edited March 9, 2009 by ruttinbuc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 My Newberry has a 7 1/2" brace height and is 38" axle to axle. It is the most forgiving bow I ever shot. With its parallel limbs it is still quite fast. Hey, Mike! I'm not familiar with the Newberry. What brand is it? ...and sorry if I've hijacked this thread! :D:rolleyes: Dakota Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 It is no longer manufactured, Dakota. Ya' little hijacker! Engineer who worked for High Country went into business for himself. Didn't sell enough bows, I guess. It is a sweet shooter for sure. One day I'll tell you the story about how I came to get this bow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 A longer brace height is usually a little bit easier to shoot, but they are also slower. The "norm" seems to be a 7" brace height. Mathews built the Reezen to be a 6 1/2" brace height bow and get 340 FPS from it. However, they also built one with a 7" brace height because that is what a lot of people have become comfortable with (the Switchback, Drenalin and DXT were all 7" BH's I believe). Keep in mind the weather we bow hunt in up here. A couple layers and a jacket or coat adds quite a bit to your arms. Even with an arm guard, bow sock or whatever, there will be quite a bit of extra "padding" there. A short brace height can cause problems (especially something like the 5" or 6" BH on the Monster or Monster XLR8). Just remember, the RIGHT thing to do would be to support that bow company in Sparta, Wisconsin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Shooter Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 A longer brace height is usually a little bit easier to shoot, but they are also slower. Don't know about that one, my ROSS's are 7" brace height compared to my CSS Challenger with a 6 1/4" BH. ROSS's are shooting faster with heavier arrow with only two more pounds of draw weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 He said usually Kevin.......gosh :D:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Don't know about that one, my ROSS's are 7" brace height compared to my CSS Challenger with a 6 1/4" BH. ROSS's are shooting faster with heavier arrow with only two more pounds of draw weight. I depends on the bow, but apples to apples, a longer brace height is going to be slower (ie Reezen 6.5 vs. Reezen 7.0). I don't think you'll find many 320+ IBO bows with a brace height over 7". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJL Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 It's really amazing how technology has changed since I've been playing this game, going on 30 years now. It wasn't that long ago that you couldn't touch 300fps IBO without going under 7", now we're looking at 320-340 fps and 7". I think that the bottom line is and will continue to be SHOOTABILITY. 375 fps is here, but can you shoot it ?? Speed is directly coorelated to energy and thusly very important, however, if you have to sacrifice accuracy to get it, is it worth it ?? Like anything else, it's always good to go for a test drive before you buy. BTW Randy.........I go back to work Monday and you'll have a check in your hand for your old bow in no time. Thanks for your patience. Good Thread Guys........ JJL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I think that the bottom line is and will continue to be SHOOTABILITY. 375 fps is here, but can you shoot it ?? You are exactly right. Last year, my Mathews Switchback (70 #/28" DL/65%) shot right at 290 FPS. A couple years before that it was shooting about 275 FPS. I noticed form flaws were magnified at 290 FPS. The bow shot great, but any flaw in your form, or if you get lazy during the shot and don't follow through, the mistake will be greater at the higher speeds. This year I will be using heavier arrows to bring my speed back down to 275-280 FPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Speed isn't everything. I have a Carroll/PSE Dominator3D that had an overdraw with the handle that keeps you from torquing the bow. It was shooting a 27 1/4 2216 @ 277fps at 65lbs 65% let off 6 1/4" brace height. You don't know how close that bow came to being wrapped around a tree on a few occasions. Then I realized how much it would take to master the bow. I don't think they make anything with overdraw on it these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJL Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 The new cam designs had alot to do with the decline of overdraws. No longer do we need to shorten arrow length and brace height to gain arrow speed. I put my overdraw away in about 1990..............Thanks for the memories Mike. That thing was EVIL from day one. It did however, let me zip my 2213's at about 265fps...............weeeeeeee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 The new cam designs had alot to do with the decline of overdraws. No longer do we need to shorten arrow length and brace height to gain arrow speed. I put my overdraw away in about 1990..............Thanks for the memories Mike. That thing was EVIL from day one. It did however, let me zip my 2213's at about 265fps...............weeeeeeee. I still have that bow as a backup should I ever need it. It is like picking up a piece of cast iron compared to the bow I shoot now. Tires you out in a hurry. No sense in trying to sell it. Who would buy it? I think I paid $550 for it. A lot of money back then. I can still hit the spots with it though. Yep, the memories... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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