layin on the smackdown Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Yesterday at work, we had a staff meeting with our local physician care center regarding suspicion of drug and alcohol abuse in the work place...how to detect it and so on... Well, a matter was brought up regarding what employees do outside of the work place...this lead to a heated debate over terminating employees for violating certain laws outside of work...The main one that i am talking about here is a DUI or OWI... Certain employees were exempt from being terminated if convicted for DUI, while others were not, with the justification being their specific job title, and the Directors discretion... Regardless, i fully disagree with this policy and think it is a bunch of BS....Someone can be a model employee, a model citizen, a great mom dad or whatever, make one mistake, and their whole family suffers for it??? People are people, everyone has made a mistake or two in their life... 20 + years at an agency can get flushed down the drain for making a mistake, on personal time, and it is a non violent offense...give me a break... what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Total BS. I think what a person does on their own time is their business. A few exceptions for crimes that are specific to your job: If you drive a company vehicle and get a DUI (off co. time in your personal car), then that's a problem. Personally i dont care if some of the guys out on our manufacturing floor smoked one over the weekend, as long as they are clean here, then it's not my business. BUT, they know they are subject to random screenings, and is mandatory if they have an accident, and in that case, it's tough cookie baby, you shoulda thought about supporting your family while you were out smoking with the boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Lead by example, period. If an employer exempts certain jobs from such, it should not expect anything different from other employees. So long as what an employee does on their own time does not interfere with their job or job performance or in any way reflect negatively on that company I really do not see where it is any of the companies business. In saying what I have said above I in no way condone any type of illegal activity in any way, I simply do not think a company should have policies that are discriminatory in manner like this, nor do I think companies should pry into their employees private lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m gardner Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 From what I've seen most people who get picked up for DUI etc. don't get picked up their first time. Most have problems related to alcohol or drugs that affect their lives and their family's lives. If you need to make a choice between your job and alcohol or drugs and you pick the later that's up to you. But it should be the same policy for everyone not up to anyone's discretion. Like my Bible says. Don't drink to the point of drunkeness, it will cause you problems. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 i think A big problem is we all think we own our jobs. When we dont own them. A job is not some right you have it is working for somebody. and if they want to fire you for being stupid. Well frankly dont be stupid. Be a resposible person and relize there is more then just touble with the law when you drink and drive. I agree with your work place on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Shouldn't have different rules for employees. What people do on their own time shouldn't matter unless it harms others and/or it effects their job. For instance, if a counselor for victims of sexual abuse commits an act of sexual abuse while on vacation from work. Well they may have been a model employee for 20 years, but yes this once mistake should cost them their job. Drug/alcohol use has more grey area because one can argue that it doesn't hurt anyone. Some people may be better drivers with a 0.09 blood alcohol level than some with a 0.07. However, only the 0.09 person gets the DUI and repercussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoythunter37 Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I would have to complete agree with you. That is just plain BS!!! I think that if it is someones personal business that is not at the work place then it should not be used against them.But I would have to say that if it is a repeat offense then I think something should be done. If I was the director and one of my employees would get another DUI or anything that is a serious offense then I would have to say some form of action needs to be taken care of. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Sounds like the rule/policy was clearly communicated to the employees, so if you screw up I think they have every right to terminate you. If you don't like it, probably ought to look for a new place of employment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layin on the smackdown Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 good responses so far... If your specific job requires you to drive, and you lose your license and cannot get a work permit, i would think that you may be up a creek (unless your employer will create other duties for you). but in this case, it is somewhat different...People who are exempt from being terminated are those who are out of the public eye, such as finance, some administration, maintenance, equipment operators and so on...People who will be terminated are those who the community knows and recognize such as facility managers, program coordinators, education instructors, camp counselors etc... I just don't think it is right to fire someone because they made a mistake, and might be a pimple on the face of the organization for a little while...I think it is cowardly, discriminatory, unjust, and extremely unsupportive...Dont you think that the individual at hand would be punished enough by the law? I agree with the law, but i don't think any employer should have the ability to compound punishments, especailly to that extreme... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I just don't think it is right to fire someone because they made a mistake, Then don't make the mistake. DUI and the aforementioned crimes you bring up are completely avoidable. but i don't think any employer should have the ability to compound punishments, especailly to that extreme... Their company, their rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookieee Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Well let me tell you the job our drivers perform request a clean driving record or our ins will go thrue the roof if one gets a "D.U.I" and is a good worker we take them of the truck and put them to work as helper on the truck or they work in the yard taking care of cust ,as long as they perform there work well,its none of our bussn what they do outside the work place.thats just my two cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Then don't make the mistake. DUI and the aforementioned crimes you bring up are completely avoidable. Their company, their rules. Chris is right. If they've made the attempt to clearly communicate their requirements for employment it's simple. They can run thier business anyway they want...if you dont like it leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 The differen't standards thing is bs. They are saying it is ok for them to get baked but not you? Maybe on of the law makers will get a dui and be a law breaker and this thing can be tested. The techs here at work got hammered about break times, but the guy that dropped the hammer does not do a whole heck of alot and abuses his breaks more then most. This is common I believe......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 OK, think about this. A nurse who is off duty comes into the ER of the hospital where he/she works. They run various tests trying to find out what is wrong and in the process he/she tests positive for drug use ("hard" drugs). BY LAW that nurse CAN NOT be terminated, disciplined, or even offered counseling because his/her health records are protected information. True story. That person still works at the hospital. And is probably still doing drugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Their company, their rules. True Chris and Gary, but it sounds like smack is bringing up a change to the rules that had been in place that creates an avenue for unequal treatment of employees. A lot of people can't leave their job because they don't like the new rules. I'm not at all an advocate for drinking and driving, but I do think the same rules should apply to all employees. For instance, I work for the state. Shouldn't all state employees be held accountable to the rules? I'm not saying that rules are never in need of change, just that all employees should be held accountable to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 OK, think about this. A nurse who is off duty comes into the ER of the hospital where he/she works. They run various tests trying to find out what is wrong and in the process he/she tests positive for drug use ("hard" drugs). BY LAW that nurse CAN NOT be terminated, disciplined, or even offered counseling because his/her health records are protected information. True story. That person still works at the hospital. And is probably still doing drugs. Sounds like a hospital that needs to implement mandatory drug testing for ALL staff personnel ... :rolleyes: I wouldn't want no crack head sticking needles in me ... :eek: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkoholic Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 As long as everything is clearly spelled out in each job description, in writing, there is little to do about it if you do not like it. I'm pretty sure there is not anybody twisting your arm to make you work where you do. Reminds me of a sign I just saw at the local concrete business, it simply stated; "I own this SOB and I'll run it as I see fit. If you think you can do better, BUY IT" Those of you who think that what you do on your own time should have no bearing on what happens at work may well consider the poor decisions made by people at work and ask just how many of them were on drugs (alcohol included) the day/night before. One poll that I have seen showed that over 90 percent of sawmill workers with missing, or partially missing, digits were drunk/high the evening before the digit went missing. Most companies also do not like the poor publicity associated with having wayward employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layin on the smackdown Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) Then don't make the mistake. DUI and the aforementioned crimes you bring up are completely avoidable. Their company, their rules. Its not a company...its a government job...and i have always been under the impression that all or most governmental jobs (especially municipality or district jobs) followed the same policies and procedures...Also, i am not disputing this on a personal level, i don't think it is fair for any and all employees anywhere in any workplace... I wasnt asking if you think i should look for another job...i was asking everyones opinion on the matter because it was such a heated debate at work. Edited April 3, 2009 by layin on the smackdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m gardner Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 If you want your business to be sought after, especially in these tough times you want your employees to shine above the rest. I work for a christian man who demands excellence and everyone knows this. Our business is actually growing because as the others fall we get more work. He hasn't cut our pay or benefits either. He's very easy to work for too. If you can't make a commitment to not embarrass your employer during these hard times you are certainly self centered and missing something. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 OK, think about this. A nurse who is off duty comes into the ER of the hospital where he/she works. They run various tests trying to find out what is wrong and in the process he/she tests positive for drug use ("hard" drugs). BY LAW that nurse CAN NOT be terminated, disciplined, or even offered counseling because his/her health records are protected information. True story. That person still works at the hospital. And is probably still doing drugs. Not sure if Texas is different, but most healthcare facilities, hospitals included, require random screenings for things such as this and being that nurses handle narcotics they do have to comply or they can have action taken against them. When a screen is required by the employer I think hipaa rights are waived Mike, I know for a fact that my wife has fired several nurses who either would not comply or got caught. This is especially true where those nurses are in position to steal narcotics and this is a huge problem. This state offers programs for those who get caught to be able to keep their license, however not many employers fool with nurses on the tpap program as they are a liability risk. Back on the topic, I can see the point Chris makes about an employer setting their rules, and I agree with the idea that if you don't like the rules you can leave, however I think when there are different sets of rules for different workers there is a big problem, that is in my opinion very discriminating. And I do also believe that a persons privacy is just that, people make mistakes and they can learn from them, guess if an employer opts to drop a person who screwed up in their personal life that is their option, but they need to hold all their employees to that same set of rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Its not a company...its a government job...and i have always been under the impression that all or most governmental jobs (especially municipality or district jobs) followed the same policies and procedures...Also, i am not disputing this on a personal level, i don't think it is fair for any and all employees anywhere in any workplace... I wasnt asking if you think i should look for another job...i was asking everyones opinion on the matter because it was such a heated debate at work. Well then, maybe you should more clearly define what it is you want me to debate. Is it the fact that the same standard does not apply to everyone? Or, do you want my opinion on the "inequity" of being convicted of a DUI and lose your job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layin on the smackdown Posted April 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Is it the fact that the same standard does not apply to everyone? Or, do you want my opinion on the "inequity" of being convicted of a DUI and lose your job? Both...do you think it is discrimination to a point, and do you think that this policy is crossing the line into personal territory? Sorry i wasn't clear on that earlier, my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swohiodave Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 you know, i think that what i do at home is my business but if i was a business owner i doubt i would want someone who breaks the law working for me. a mistake is a mistake....getting a DUI is not a mistake... you took the chance. now i dont want work getting in my business at home but if i break the rules then i should have known better. and you dont want a public figure for a company doing something stupid in public either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Both...do you think it is discrimination to a point, and do you think that this policy is crossing the line into personal territory? Sorry i wasn't clear on that earlier, my bad. I agree that the standards should be applied to everyone, not a select few. I do not think the policy is crossing into personal territory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I dont mind if we have double standards. If a guy has 2 dui's i could care less if he aint driving one of our trucks. BUT if he is a driver then this is a big problem to our ins. carrier. I'm sure a lot of our employees dont have a valid DL, so what? But if he's hired/promoted to drive then his driving record becomes our business. Strictly a business decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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