redkneck Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Unions protect American jobs. They secure work for people. You get guaranteed insurance after so much time in service, a pension that is safer than ones in stock markets, and you don't have to worry about losing out on jobs due to illegal immigrants. I think alot of you who bash unions are simply uneducated in what and how they work. I hate to burst everyones bubble, but the UAW is far from the union standard. 95% of locals do not pay their workers who are no longer working or retired. Their medical benefits do not continue either. The UAW has set a bad taste in manys mouth. The Operating Engineers have made great things happen in my life. I have awesome medical insurance for my entire family. I have life insurance. I have a retirement that is up there with the best of them, yet I didn't lose a penny last year....how much did you lose? I have a job secured for me that I don't have to worry about losing to somehwhere overseas, nor do I have to worry about some illegal alien taking my job. You all sit on your high horse and cry about the wage increases, yet you all get the same raise each year. We just plan ours out in advance. I'll defend my job and my union 100%. It's done tons for me! P.S. Those contractors joined the unions, we didn't make them! Ok, I'll give you some due. I don't doubt the union has been good for you, why would you say otherwise? BUT.... Tell me how in the **** the UAW has protected American Jobs? They are 50% of the reason that the big 3 are in such crappy shape now and shedding jobs like crazy. Yeah, I blame management too. I've been in automotive manufacturing for 15 years working both directly for tier one suppliers and as a dedicated supplier. I've been through many of the facilities in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio. I've seen the UAW guys asleep (yes, asleep) at their workstation. Hey, when the line goes down, it's not their job to sweep up, right? LAYER upon LAYER of inefficiency that all drives down to the bottom line. I'm not against all unions, their members or anything like that. But I will speak my mind when you make statements like you did. Don't take it personally, as I wont either, it's a touchy subject with alot of members here i can see already. But the union has done very little of the things you speak of in the way of guarantees. Watch GM, Ford, and Chrysler shed jobs like crazy while Toyota, Nissan, and Honda add them in the coming years with non-union American workers. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I'd like to apologize if I've offended any of our Union members. I consider myself a very open-minded person and I know we all come from different perspectives. We all want the same thing, to put food on our tables and try to be good providers for our families. There's enough bashing on both sides. I see the term "union bashing" being used and I can see there is. But also terms like "rat contractors" and "scabs" are commonplace too. I've been run out of plants that were closing down product lines just because I'm trying to get in there and keep a small piece of it here in the states and not go to Mexico or overseas. I've also helped set up operations in Mexico for a few years, not my decision, but just earning my check. Walk into a Union Automotive plant, then take a stroll into Honda and you'll notice quite a culture shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Unions are great when they do great things for you. But when they mess things up, there's nothing you can do about it. Seriously, there's nothing. Ever heard of someone suing a union and winning? Ever heard of a union going bankrupt because the plant got shut down because of strike negotiations? They can do good things or totally ruin everything. I truly hope your Union is reasonable and you don't end up looking for a new job because they aren't reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Ok, I'll give you some due. I don't doubt the union has been good for you, why would you say otherwise? BUT.... Tell me how in the **** the UAW has protected American Jobs? They are 50% of the reason that the big 3 are in such crappy shape now and shedding jobs like crazy. Yeah, I blame management too. I've been in automotive manufacturing for 15 years working both directly for tier one suppliers and as a dedicated supplier. I've been through many of the facilities in Michigan, Indiana, Ohio. I've seen the UAW guys asleep (yes, asleep) at their workstation. Hey, when the line goes down, it's not their job to sweep up, right? LAYER upon LAYER of inefficiency that all drives down to the bottom line. I'm not against all unions, their members or anything like that. But I will speak my mind when you make statements like you did. Don't take it personally, as I wont either, it's a touchy subject with alot of members here i can see already. But the union has done very little of the things you speak of in the way of guarantees. Watch GM, Ford, and Chrysler shed jobs like crazy while Toyota, Nissan, and Honda add them in the coming years with non-union American workers. JMHO OK for the third time this thread.....the UAW is NOT A NORMAL UNION!!!! They pay retirees and non working members full wages and medical. They screwed themselves. Union is not the same across the board, otherwise there wouldn't be the UAW, IUOE, Welders Union, Pipefitters, etc.....they all vary. But I can see that I'm dealing with an uneducated ( on unions ) crowd so it's a useless argument. I agree with you all, the UAW is greedy and screwed themselves.....thats them, not UNION in general. So before you go bashing unions and what terrible things they do, get your facts straight. If you work non union and it works for you great! If you work for union and don't like it, then get out. If you are proud of your union and love your job then thats great too. Theres no need to bash my way or any other union members way of living though. In fact it's down right insulting. BTW this post is not aimed at you redneck, I was just using your quote for my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I agree! I got a raise for the first time last year, it was about four years that went past where I seen none! I too am glad I have a job! No cost of living raises for me in four years, until last year. Plus I doubt Ill see one this year! I worked for one union plant, NEVER AGAIN! Dues was $50 a month for what? I seen nothing they did for us, other than them taking our money! So glad I got out of that place. My wife works for a trucking company. The teamsters is BLEEDING THEM DRY! They have to pay for the SCUM that don't even work for them! I am talking about the HEAD GUYS of the teamsters. They (my wife's company) are obligated to pay for THEIR RETIREMENT! What kind of CRAP is that! I mean they don't even work for this trucking company! Now they have to start selling off assets to meet the deadline! TOTAL CRAP IF YOU ASK ME!!! :mad: WRONG! The retirement they are paying into the works pension is part of their wages! For example...I make 32$ an hour base pay. This is what comes to me on my check. For every hour I work my contractor pays in 7$ to my medical fund and 7$ into my pension fund. So in reality I make 46$ and hr but only see 32$ on my check. The rest is benefits WHICH YOUR WIFES COMPANY AGREED TO! So they are paying the workers the pension that they are supposed to pay them. Which brings up a great point. All unions pay into what is called a central pension fund. Tons of people lost over half of their retirement and are struggling to find a way to meet their retirement needs now. Many members of my family lost hundreds of thousands with their 401k's. Union members didn't lose a dime! Their retirements are safe and sound! I bet thats just horrible huh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 OK for the third time this thread.....the UAW is NOT A NORMAL UNION!!!! ....... I agree with you all, the UAW is greedy and screwed themselves.....thats them, not UNION in general. So I suppose you and I are in perfect agreement! heheheee I wish the best for all of us union and not. Hope we all keep the checks coming. Automotive has been good to me, but I'm working for a company supplying a bankrupt company (Delphi) that's about to be swallowed by another bankrupt company (GM). A real rosey outlook huh fellows? Like I said, Kyle, it's all about perspective and you are indeed correct, I am mostly ignorant of the others out there besides the UAW. It's just tough watching good ppl cut their own throats over the years. I've worked with the hands at Delphi at Athens AL and they are great folks, and it tears me up to see that site shutting its doors, and it's not the union's fault. GM sure has its share of idiots in management. ya'll be good..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Many make valid points here pro and con about unions. What union Frank belongs to is a construction union, Local 7 in NYC. I belong to Local 3 IBEW for 24 years. That is the electricians union in NYC. Construction unions are way different than ANY experience you might have had at a factory or assembly line union.. You no breaka you A$$, you a no work. Period. Yeah you will make a good wage and have great benifits, but living in metro NYC area, you will need every dime you earn. All of what unions get is attained through a process called collective bargaining. Both sides agree to terms and contracts are signed. Unions protect workers safety and train some of the best craftsmen in the world. I did a 5 year electrical apprenticeship with 2 years of college and recieved an associates degree. Every journeyman electrician our union turns out is college educated and trained in the most recent safety and installations. Our union also protects the older workers. When you lose a step in life due to age or injury. What contractor wants a old man? I'm talking about 55 and over. These are the guys with the smarts! One in every 10 men on the job has to be over 55 if they are available from the hall. We will all be old one day and that is a great protection to make sure you are not cast to the side when you still have a little pop left in your step. There are no protections in construction unions. You still need to perform for the great wage you will receive. Many total wage packages for various construction mechanical tradesmen are at just about $100/hr. And no one is getting rich. Believe me. Unions are not perfect by any means. But it affords the worker a better lifestyle and quality of life. I have had bouts of unemployment throughout my 24 years, but I was still able to raise a family and pay a mortgage. Think about this...if we could trust EVERY employer to play fair, by the rules and not take advantage of the workers safety and heath, then there would be no need for unions. Unions were born because of treacherous employers. Good Luck with the negotiations Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 You make a lot of good points Anthony. My dad was in the IBEW for a while. I know none of the construction unions are sleeping on the job, lol. No doubt lots of employers put it to their labor, even my own company does things a lot differently than I would. I was wrong to go on a UAW bash in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I was wrong to go on a UAW bash in this thread. No your a very right about the UAW. It's just that alot of people seem to think the UAW is the only union lol. I'm completely with you on the UAW rant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I dont think that non-union members would be making the money they make if there were no unions around. They would be making alot less. Not necessarily true Craig. Unions can drive up wages for some which leaves companies in situations where they are forced to make other cuts, obviously can also lead to companies getting in trouble. When greed drives up wages beyond the fair wages in the area that does not mean that other employers will raise their pay rates if that is what you are implying. There will always be diversity in pay scales for different types of jobs all over this country and some employers simply cannot and will not attempt to compete, so they will pay at or just above the minimum wage. If the union jobs were forcing those employers around them to raise their pay rates, you would see the fast food workers and other non skilled workers making considerably more than what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig mack Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Not necessarily true Craig. Unions can drive up wages for some which leaves companies in situations where they are forced to make other cuts, obviously can also lead to companies getting in trouble. When greed drives up wages beyond the fair wages in the area that does not mean that other employers will raise their pay rates if that is what you are implying. There will always be diversity in pay scales for different types of jobs all over this country and some employers simply cannot and will not attempt to compete, so they will pay at or just above the minimum wage. If the union jobs were forcing those employers around them to raise their pay rates, you would see the fast food workers and other non skilled workers making considerably more than what they do. Good point. But if the UAW went away, which I'm sure alot of you would love to see, I bet that the wages of those working in the Honda and Toyota plants would see a drastic decrease in pay and bennies. Those workers get what they get to keep the union out. I believe that they benefit from UAW contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer2295 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I used to be in a steelworkers union, and to just let you know, not all unions look out for you. we had a local union who sold out the employees, they got their pensions cut in half, and also have to pay for their own insurance now. Don't get me wrong, I hope that you get your 3% that you are looking for, god knows I would rather see you have it than the government. They sure know how to try to bail out the big corporations, but they do nothing for the people who put them in office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion_70 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 "Many total wage packages for various construction mechanical tradesmen are at just about $100/hr.":confused::confused: Wow!! That's over 200k a yr..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I say they should be happy they have a job. A three dollar raise over that amount of time is alot really. I have not got a cost of living raise in over ten years. If you pay union dues it is your choice. You should not be paid extra to make up the difference. If someone walks off the job it is a bad move in my mind. Just makes union labor look worse then it already does..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Try leaving a union to move up in the company your working for. BAD idea. My buddy got threatened and lost alot of his supposed friends when he did. Some people take the unions way to serious............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 "Many total wage packages for various construction mechanical tradesmen are at just about $100/hr.":confused::confused: Wow!! That's over 200k a yr..... IF you work the whole year...which is rare. Half of that number is wages and the other half is the total benefit package. Plumbers, steam fitters, carpenters, electricians, tin knockers are all in the $40-50/hr wage range in NYC...and like I said no one is getting rich and rarely do many get to work a full year. Most every job is a fast track job that has to be done yesterday. Projects end fast. So you tend to work as much as you can when it is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I work 6 months a year........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 It will interesting as to what takes place on my job, if they strike. There are at least 15 tile and marble guys. We are doing a school and this school needs to be open for September. I spoke to the tile foreman today and he said it does not look good. A strike might be immanent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 IF you work the whole year...which is rare. Half of that number is wages and the other half is the total benefit package. Plumbers, steam fitters, carpenters, electricians, tin knockers are all in the $40-50/hr wage range in NYC...and like I said no one is getting rich and rarely do many get to work a full year. Plus folks you have to concider the cost of living in this area. For those who live elsewhere it is hard to understand. Anthony, tell them what is costs per month for an apartment or a house per month. Better yet, how much for NYC Big Mac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagleboy Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 (edited) Alot of people here are knocking the construction unions. This is how I make a living and have been doing very well for the past 11yrs. My local union and the benefits that come with it are unsurpassed. $47 hourly wage, awesome pension, anuity, medical, scholarships, vacation pay. You name it, we got it. The city unions are the best there is. We run circles around the rat non-union companies. When it comes to quality, speed and turning out a high rise building in time with the contractor's agenda, we can't be beat. I bust my rear everyday for a very great wage and damn right we deserve a fair raise. NYC is a union city!!!!!! United we stand and union we build!!! Anthony, what is the name of the tile company doing your school? Edited June 6, 2009 by beagleboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Plus folks you have to consider the cost of living in this area. For those who live elsewhere it is hard to understand. Anthony, tell them what is costs per month for an apartment or a house per month. Better yet, how much for NYC Big Mac? I don't eat McDonalds, but I can tell you what a 3 bedroom ranch style house on a 1/4acre costs in my area. About $350-400K. Do not forget the 10 grand a year( and going up) in school and county taxes:rolleyes:. I live approx 40 miles north of NYC. You make the money here sure, but you are not allowed to keep it. In one hand and right out the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Anthony, which tile company is doing your school? I think it is Baybrent Tile and Marble Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagleboy Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 I think it is Baybrent Tile and Marble Frank. I am familiar with the company. We are currently working on the Goldman Sacs building near World Trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 We have to have lunch! I am at 26 Broadway...right by the Bull. Maybe we can meet at Dirty Mikes:D. Good Luck with the negotiations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagleboy Posted June 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 We have to have lunch! I am at 26 Broadway...right by the Bull. Maybe we can meet at Dirty Mikes:D. Good Luck with the negotiations. Sounds good Anthony. Strike Update: Looks like we are striking Monday. An agreement can not be reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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