What do YOU think of this???

[TRMichels]

The Premise:

Several popular Game Activity Tables predict that fish and game animals will be most active or feed within a 1-3 hour timeframe of when the moon is either directly overhead or underfoot of their position on the earth. The question is; Are these Tables and Predictors correct in there predictions? I will tell you that I conducted an exhaustive research project of this subject between 1990 and 2000, on 5 different herds of deer in three widely separated locations.

One of the problems with the study was that I was seeing dozens of deer, and was often unable to determine if I was seeing one of the deer on several occasions, or several deer on several occasions. However, in our new location, we have only one whitetail doe in the area. So, I will be able to determine if the activity of one particular deer is correlated with the times predicted by one of the several Game Activity Tables currently available to hunters.

For the purposes of this study I will be using the Astro table. Which is available on the ESPN web site at http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/general/news/story?page=g_fea_astro_tables.

To determine the meteorological conditions at the time of the deer sightings I will be using the weather station closest to our house, which is within 3 miles. The address of the website is http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=eagan, mn &wuSelect=WEATHER.

Following are the sightings of the doe so far, and the weather data and predicted activity times.

We can deduce several things about deer behavior from this data, if we know what to look for.

My question to you is - "What do YOU deduce from this information?"

I'll keep you updated as the days go by.

Thursday, June 04, 2009 At about 5:45 AM I saw a Coyote sniffing the air right near out apartment. It was a lot of fun watching the animal look for the source of my burnt bacon, which I am sure wafted out the kitchen window to the meadow below. Astro Table 10:02 - 11:18 AM.

From 6:30 AM until 6:50 AM I watched a doe White-tailed Deer feeding in the meadow. I did not see where the deer came from, but when it left, it went west into the trees, down a hill toward one of the lakes. You can view the video here. I hope to see the doe's fawn in the next few weeks. Astro Table 9:57-10:53 AM and 9:07 - 10:39 PM.

Friday, June 05, 2009 At 3:15 AM we heard a coyote howling, presumably in the woods behind the house. Astro Table 11:26 - midnight.

Saturday, June 6, 2009 The whitetail doe was in the meadow feeding at 7:23PM; it came from the woods north of the meadow and left at 7:29 going south toward another patch of woods. Astro Table 11:51 AM - 12:43PM.

Sunday, June 07, 2009 The whitetail doe was in the meadow feeding at 6:20AM; it came from woods to the south of the meadow and left at 6:31 going north into the woods. Astro Table 12:21-1:07AM.

Sunday, June 08, 2009 The whitetail doe was in the meadow at 8:50 PM. She left going south. Astro Table 1:37-2:32 PM.

Monday, June 08, 2009 The whitetail doe was in the meadow at 7:44 AM; she came from the woods south of the meadow and went to the woods north of the meadow. The Astro Table 1:27 - 2:23.

At 7:54 PM The doe stepped into the meadow from the woods on the north and fed there until 8:02, when she left going south. Partly cloudy, no wind, temperature 60 degrees. Astro Table2:28 - 3:14 PM.

Thursday, June 11, 2009 Cloudy, no wind, 51 degrees, Twilight 4:48 AM, Sunrise 5:25 AM. At 5.36 AM the doe was leaving the meadow going north. Astro Table 2:47-3:43 AM.

Diane saw the doe in the meadow at 8:30 PM; it came from the woods north of meadow, and it left going to the woods south of the meadow. Astro Table time was 3:54-5:00 PM.

God bless and good hunting.

T.R.

[redkneck]

I think it's SPAM.

[Guest TennesseeTurkey]

:spam::ban::spam::ban:

[layin on the smackdown]

if i am reading all this correctly, i would conclude that you cannot correlate the times with which you are seeing this deer feeding to the times that the astro table says the deer will or most likely should be most active. This is true because you do not know at which time this deer began feeding, or when it stopped feeding. You are simply witnissing this deer feeding at one specifice location at certain times of the day...However, you should be able to compile some evidence regarding the consistency of times when that deer is entering and leaving the field by taking the difference between the Astro table predictions, and the times you are seeing this deer enter the field...i.e. astro table says peak activity is betwee 11:23 p.m. and 1:03 a.m., and you see the deer at 6:45 a.m., i would maybe think that there may be some consistency with this...if the astro tables says X time is peak activity time, add 6 or so hours to that, and you may see that same deer in the same vicinity at approximately that time...JMO

JMO

Edited June 14, 2009 by layin on the smackdown

[redkneck]

I liked my answer better, Dan. :spam:

[layin on the smackdown]

I liked my answer better, Dan. :spam:

Me too...i was wondering about that...

[redkneck]

I think there's certainly nothing wrong with great folks who are knowlegeable enough to write a book on outdoor subjects to be a member here. But to just start opening threads with c/p from the book rather than just working things into context of conversations is a bit much imho.

[Tominator]

I think there's certainly nothing wrong with great folks who are knowlegeable enough to write a book on outdoor subjects to be a member here. But to just start opening threads with c/p from the book rather than just working things into context of conversations is a bit much imho.

Ditto. Sometimes a tough pill to swallow when all of a sudden the answers are all right before us, and all of a sudden we are truly blessed with this knowledge.

[blacktailslayer]

This is what I came up with, but got it wrong.

I'm not sure about your weather patterns at your location of you data, but will give it a shot. Here in western Oregon we have still been getting some of our South to North fall/winter winds. I will just assume you had the same type of wind direction as I have had where I live.

The doe would came from the north in the mornings and then left to the south. This would allow the doe to catch any scent out in the meadow before she entered it. She then would leave the meadow to the south with the wind in her face. Leaving with the wind in a deers face will allow the deer to get the scent of anything up ahead of her.

Blacktails here in Oregon have been known to do the opposite in some situations. I could have had your wind directions wrong and then the doe you watched would have been doing what some blacktails do here. Blacktails have been known to travel with the wind at their back. This would have allowed the doe to watch her back trail she used to enter into the meadow for any predators. A predators scent would have blown into the meadow and warned the doe before the predator even entered into the meadow. The doe would then leave the meadow again with the wind at her back. She then would make a circle right before she reached her bedding area. This again would give the doe the advantage of watching her back trail for any predators following her scent trail.

I would assume the day she did the opposite travel route in the morning was because of the cloudy, no wind, lower temperature day.

Elevation and terrain could have played a part, but I would need pics to decide why the doe did what she did.

I have never believed in the tables for hunting. However; an elk rancher did mention his farmed raised bulls would always breed with his cows 3 or 4 days before the full moon in Sept. That was kind of interesting and I'm not sure it only happened because they were farmed raised elk.

Well I have only really hunted blacktail deer. Blacktail deer in all my areas that I hunt have enough food, water, bedding areas, and trails to travel on in every direction. A person would be lucky to get the same buck on the same trail on a Tcam in a 2-4 week period. Blacktails mainly go by the wind to determine where they feed, drink, bed, or travel. I would have to say that the wind is determining everything this doe is doing, but I'm no whitetail expert. Learning whitetail and mule deer behavior and hunting is something that I need to do more; if I ever plan on harvesting any. Blacktail deer have to worry about Oregons huge cougar, bear, and yote problems all day long as well. That is why they are always on high alert and use the wind to their advantage no matter what time of day or night and what activity they are doing. I guess I might be a little lost; unless I think of something later.

[TRMichels]

At to teh Astral Table:

Conclusions: It appears that the deer is somewhat predictably active within 2 hours of sunrise and sunset, but it is unpredictable as to how often it will be seen within a given week at those times. And it is fairly predictable as to where it will be at those times. In the last week the doe has been in the meadow within 2 hours of sunrise 5 times; and has been in the meadow within 2 hours of sunset 3 times. None of those times was within the timeframe given by the Astral Table for those days.

These sightings do not prove that this doe did not feed at times correlating with the overhead or underfoot position of the moon, or the times predicted by several popular Game Activity Tables that use the position (or other factors) of the moon, in their predictions. But, since several scientific studies show that deer are most active on a daily basis within 1-2 hours of sunrise and sunset, I think it is unlikely that this deer was also active at those times.

This study suggests that Game Activity Tables (that rely on the overhead/underfoot position of the moon) are unreliable at predicting the best times to see deer - at least this particular deer. After 10 years of research I've found that none of the tables (Solunar Table, Feeding & Fishing Times, Moon Guide) are accurate more than 20% of the time. I don't know about you - but that is not good enough for me.

-----------------------------

But, what other conclusions can you conme to from this, about the times the deer was seen and the places it was seen. Think guys - think

God bless and good hunting,

T.R.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

I've found these tables to be much more accurate in relation to predators than to herbivores. Gamesfish, varmints and the like WILL be more active during these periods, while grazers like deer and livestock not so much.

[redkneck]

http://www.ohiosportsman.com/forum/showthread.php?p=347047

http://www.nefga.org/forum/nebraska-hunting-forum/23754-what-do-you-get-out.html

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52564

http://www.huntonly.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2401

http://www.heartlandoutdoorsman.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=19544

http://www.bowzone.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=9261

http://www.bowhuntingtalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=8166&sid=bd736aa8c31a9a6e9d7e200f807ab445

Sorry, I just dont agree with joining every outdoor forum out there just to c/p book excerpts.

[TRMichels]

You are missing about 36 other forums.

Why not "try" to help as many people as I can?

God bless,

T.R.

[Illinois59]

Just tell me when November gets here. :yawn:

[Dakota]

You are missing about 36 other forums.

Oooo...:crutch: That really didn't help your case right there, bud. :stupid::bang::taped::no::jaw::argue: Keep a low profile and just try to be one of the guys instead of a know-it-all (not saying you are, just saying you come off sounding like one ).

Dakota

[wtnhunt]

You are missing about 36 other forums.

Why not "try" to help as many people as I can?

God bless,

T.R.

Nothing wrong with helping others and nothing wrong with sharing knowledge or discussing/debating topics. Think where the problem comes in is that it appears to some that you are attempting to peddle your books all over the internet by way of using forums. Maybe leave out the book excerpts from your posts in the future and some folks may change their opinion.

The way I see it, if you keep cutting and pasting all someone would have to do is put together the pieces. At the rate you are going you will have your books in entirety posted for anyone who wants, making it possible to read them without having to buy them.

Me, I prefer to go to the public library and check out books I am interested in. If the book is that good that I have to have it, I will buy it. There are tons of books out there on the topics you are posting excerpts out of your book on though.

[redkneck]

Keep a low profile and just try to be one of the guys instead of a know-it-all (not saying you are, just saying you come off sounding like one ).

Dakota

Yep, that's what I think. Admitting you're dropping c/p's into 42 forums is hardly what i call being part of a community.

Nothing wrong with helping others and nothing wrong with sharing knowledge or discussing/debating topics. Think where the problem comes in is that it appears to some that you are attempting to peddle your books all over the internet by way of using forums. Maybe leave out the book excerpts from your posts in the future and some folks may change their opinion.

I agree. If someone is that knowledgeable on a particular topic then these things should be brought out in the context of conversations, not just start a new thread in 40 forums with the exact same post.

[TRMichels]

This is my full time job, it is not a hobby, or a part time job, or a sport I participate in on wekends. It is a job 10 hour a day job, 300 days a year.

Being a hunting guide and outfitter, writer and author, speaker, and game researcher, is all I have done since 1989.

Let me ask these questions.

Are you good ar your job? Do you think you are better at it than someone who does it as a sport, or who only does it part time, part of the year? Does your perception of how good you are at your job have anything to do with how long you have been at it, and how hard you work at it?

I'll be most of you think you are pretty darn good at what you do. And you have a right to feel that way, because you have worked at it.

Do I have a right to think I've learned a thing or two since 1989?

God bless,

T.R.

[Dakota]

TR,

We have Pro Staffers on here as well. Other professionals in the industry not unlike yourself. They don't tout all their accomplishments like you have been doing. We have the Kisky's, the Cianciarulo's, Randy Oitker, Steve Beilgard, Tim Andrus and even Michael Waddell that are forum members as well. We even have Tink from Tink's 69. Do they act like they know everything? No, they are just one of the guys (or gals ) doing what they love. The thing is, we all love this sport. We ALL do. In all our years of hunting and being in the outdoors most of us have a ton of experience and don't like being treated like we don't know anything or that someone thinks they are better than us and that we all need help. Like we have all stated before, if you want to contribute to the forums do so as one of the guys and not a know it all. Hope to see you stick around, bud!

Dakota

[redkneck]

That's the definition of pretentious in my book. So you've studied wildlife since 1989. I don't doubt that you do indeed know more about the rut cycle, moon phases, and when a goose breeds than I do, nor does that concern me. I'm an avid hunter and enjoy every minute of my time in the outdoors and the fact that I don't have to read a book to be a good hunter/sportsman makes the sport all the more appealing to me.

I understand you feel like you are providing a service by telling us how to hunt, but you need to look at perspectives from this side of the fence too.

[Tominator]

TR,

We have Pro Staffers on here as well. Other professionals in the industry not unlike yourself. They don't tout all their accomplishments like you have been doing. We have the Kisky's, the Cianciarulo's, Randy Oitker, Steve Beilgard, Tim Andrus and even Michael Waddell that are forum members as well. We even have Tink from Tink's 69. Do they act like they know everything? No, they are just one of the guys (or gals ) doing what they love. The thing is, we all love this sport. We ALL do. In all our years of hunting and being in the outdoors most of us have a ton of experience and don't like being treated like we don't know anything or that someone thinks they are better than us and that we all need help. Like we have all stated before, if you want to contribute to the forums do so as one of the guys and not a know it all. Hope to see you stick around, bud!

Dakota

That's the definition of pretentious in my book. So you've studied wildlife since 1989. I don't doubt that you do indeed know more about the rut cycle, moon phases, and when a goose breeds than I do, nor does that concern me. I'm an avid hunter and enjoy every minute of my time in the outdoors and the fact that I don't have to read a book to be a good hunter/sportsman makes the sport all the more appealing to me.

I understand you feel like you are providing a service by telling us how to hunt, but you need to look at perspectives from this side of the fence too.

Yep. But I'm getting the feeling that TR just doesn't get it.

[TRMichels]

I get it, you think that I am pretentious, when I am not trying toe be, I just am a product of what I do, I write the way I do because I am not a Pro-Staffer as such, but a writer. I write because that is the way I've been taught (if you will) by my editors, whether, they are book or magazine editors.

I have all of this stuff written down, and becuuse I do have a business to run, I try to put out as much valid (what I hope is useful) informtion as I can, in as short amount of time as I have to do it. And the easiest way to do it (and not leave anything out), is simply to cut and paste what I've already written. I've been doing this on talk forums like Bowhunting.Net for over 10 years now, it is just part of my daily regime.

If I were to post a long topic on patterning deer, and have to write it all out, it would take me at least three days to - to get it right, to the point where I felt comfortable that I had presented the best information I could, and not leave anything important out. I simply do not have time to do that.

I do not have time to just sit and write here, chating with others, because I have dozens of e-mails to answer daily, plus provide articles for all of the other websites I write for. I'm kind of trapped into a "hit and run" scenario.

Either I do it this way, or I do not post at all. See ... this has taken me 17 minutes to write this.

So, for now, I'll continue to post, and hope someone enjoys it, or gets something out of it.

If you do not want to read it, don't log on to the topic. that is easy and simple. But, please, don't just come on my threads to bash me, you must have better things to do. I would not do it to you.

May God bless all of you,

T.R.

[Nut]

I do not have time to just sit and write here, chating with others

Then why be here besides for self promotion (spamming)?

[Nut]

Then why be here besides for self promotion (spamming)?

Took me less than a minute to type that. :smoke:

[Dakota]

I get it, you think that I am pretentious, when I am not trying toe be, I just am a product of what I do, I write the way I do because I am not a Pro-Staffer as such, but a writer. I write because that is the way I've been taught (if you will) by my editors, whether, they are book or magazine editors.

I have all of this stuff written down, and becuuse I do have a business to run, I try to put out as much valid (what I hope is useful) informtion as I can, in as short amount of time as I have to do it. And the easiest way to do it (and not leave anything out), is simply to cut and paste what I've already written. I've been doing this on talk forums like Bowhunting.Net for over 10 years now, it is just part of my daily regime.

If I were to post a long topic on patterning deer, and have to write it all out, it would take me at least three days to - to get it right, to the point where I felt comfortable that I had presented the best information I could, and not leave anything important out. I simply do not have time to do that.

I do not have time to just sit and write here, chating with others, because I have dozens of e-mails to answer daily, plus provide articles for all of the other websites I write for. I'm kind of trapped into a "hit and run" scenario.

Either I do it this way, or I do not post at all. See ... this has taken me 17 minutes to write this.

So, for now, I'll continue to post, and hope someone enjoys it, or gets something out of it.

If you do not want to read it, don't log on to the topic. that is easy and simple. But, please, don't just come on my threads to bash me, you must have better things to do. I would not do it to you.

May God bless all of you,

T.R.

TR,

I understand your point of view, I happen to be a freelance outdoors writer myself and am a member of the Professional Outdoor Media Association. But you don't seem to get--or choose to ignore--what we're trying to explain to you. If all you want to achieve through joing a forum is sharing tidbits from your book instead of connecting and relating with other hunters then I'm afraid your in the wrong place, bud. Besides, if you want to make a profit I wouldn't post half your book where everyone can see it. :hammer1: You're wasting not only our time but yours as well when you are doing that. Forums are for connecting and making friends not for advertising 24/7. If you just want to sell your book I would recommend Amazon.com.

Dakota