NY deer Hunters ?

[RTF]

Have any of you been going to the DEC meetings that talk about our new proposals ? They have been going on all over the state and mine is tomorrow at 1 pm in Oneonta.

[Rayzorp]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

I hope to meet a friend of mine tomorrow at one in Oneonta,, he spoke to others who have gon to the other meetings, they claimed attendance was not to high,

[NY911Bowhunter]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

I will be in the Dutchess County meeting on the 24th - if anyone here is attending please let me know.

RTF - check the bowhunting room for results of the meetings so far - some good info!

[RTF]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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I hope to meet a friend of mine tomorrow at one in Oneonta,, he spoke to others who have gon to the other meetings, they claimed attendance was not to high,

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There where 400 in the Binghamton meeting last week .

Anyhow, I will be leaving soon to pick up my dad in-law and we will head over.

[RTF]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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I'll be there extra early to get a seat.

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I guess you where as you had front row seats. good speach you made.

[buckshot]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

I didn't get there until 1:10 and the only seats left were in the last row.Alot of people preferred to stand or sit on the tables and I know why.From where I was sitting you couldn't see the screen or hear what they were saying.Glad to see a large number of hunters came though.

[GWSmith]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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If you were there at Binghamton..you saw..GW, Timbo and Myself...

Glad that you came!!! You heard two of us speak....!

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What you didnt hear was me telling Timbo that we would probably have to pull you out of there with a chain....LOL

Seriously folks...I dont know if it will do any good but at least when whatever happens you can look people in the eyes and tell them you opposed it when you had the chance...GO TO THE MEETINGS

[RangerClay]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

Guys,

How about a little feedback. How are the meetings going? Are they listening at all? I'm curious how things are going.

My meeting is next week on the 23rd. I will be wearing a green Browning Buckmark hat. Come over and say hi.

Ranger

[NY911Bowhunter]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

What was the format of the speaking?

Did you face the DEC goons or the crowd?

10 days to go for me!!!!

"Iiiifffffffff ya SMELLLLLLLLLLLLLL what I'm Coooookinnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggg!!!!!!!!!

[Doc]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

I think all of the meetings are formatted about the same. At the Canandaigua meeting, we had about a 1 hour presentation from the DEC on the state of the herd. The second half was speakers from the audience. They wanted you to sign up ahead if you wanted to speak. There were microphones there, although they could have used just a touch more volume, and the DEC officials pretty much stayed out of the way. Speakers comments were being written down on some flip-charts for their use later.

I thought our meeting was conducted very well and was very well organized. Also, on the audience's part, it went along in a very civilized fashion and thankfully did not break down into a riot. Of course that was helped along by the fact that there were no pro-muzzleloader speaker there, and the few that were in the audience realized that 90+ percent of the attendees were bowhunters.

Doc

[GWSmith]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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.......Also, on the audience's part, it went along in a very civilized fashion and thankfully did not break down into a riot.......Doc

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Doc, They had 4-5 DEC Officers lined up along the back walls of the School gymnasium where the meeting was we went to. What were they afraid of anyways they had to have a "Show of Force" about???

Sadly enough thats morre Officers than they apply to keeping the Game Laws Enforced in some countys

If they want to change something...maybe they should Start There instead of Season Bashing Archers!!!

[RTF]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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RTF - Thanks for the vote of confidence. You should have introduced yourself.

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I was way in the back and left after you spoke. I heard enough and had enough. I felt like slapping the guy ahead of you who said our deer seasons are way to long and need to be much shorter. I also had a problem with the guy who said that us bowhunters get too much and it aint fair we get 30 days to bow hunt prime bucks.

And I heard about the idiot who suggested we release cougars and timber wolves to control the deer population

Anyhow heres a run down of our meeting folks.

ONEONTA — Many of the more than 350 people who turned out Saturday for a hearing on proposed changes to deer-hunting season were concerned about an overlapping of bowhunters and muzzleloaders.

The 1 p.m. meeting was held at the conference room at the Holiday Inn in Oneonta to air proposals intended to address a decline in hunters and deer herds.

Other meetings are being held around the state this month. A decision on changes likely will be made by the state Department of Environmental Conservation before the start of the fall hunting season.

It was nearly impossible to find people in the standing-room-only crowd who supported the controversial plan to have an early muzzleloading season during an early archery season.

The change, DEC officials said, would help better manage the deer population.

During the more than hour-long opening part of the session, DEC biologist and sportsmen education coordinator Jeffrey Peil talked about the changes requested by state sportsmen at various forums since 2000.

If approved, the early muzzleloading season, with special permits and tags, would run this year from Oct. 15 to 21. This year’s proposed early archery season would run from Oct. 1 to Nov. 18.

Another proposal in the works includes moving the start of the regular hunting season to the third Saturday in November, to run 23 days Previously, it began on a Monday and lasted 21 days.

The number of deer killed by hunters was down this past season, Peil said. Preliminary data show the take declined by about 20 percent, officials said earlier.

To explain this, he cited "two severe winters, which had a bigger impact than anticipated" on herd sizes.

Because of this, permits to shoot antlerless deer, "doe permits," would be severely restricted throughout the state this year. None would be issued in most of the Catskills, officials said.

Problems with coyotes and access to restricted private land also need to be addressed to improve the herd, he said.

During the more than two-hour comment period, speaker after speaker opposed the change in the muzzleloading season, while reaction was mixed on most of the other proposals.

One couple that spoke in favor of the change said there was no reason why both types of hunters could not be in the woods together.

Speakers opposing the change cited not only safety, but said shooting would ruin the quiet pleasures of bowhunting. The noise would also change the behavior of the deer, they said.

A former DEC commissioner, West Davenport resident and hunter Michael Zagata, told the crowd that instead of having a proposal given to them by the organization, the various interests had to work together to come up with a plan they both could live with.

"Unless we can work together, we will be pitted against one another," he said.

Russ Williams of Slingerlands said, "I have not made up my mind" on the issue of the early muzzleloading season. But he told audience members they need to write their legislators about the issues. It can have a big impact on how they decide, he said.

Several people listening to the speakers said different types of hunters, such as bowhunters and muzzleloaders, sharing the woods at the same time was a bad idea.

Alex Markus of South Kortright said he was against most of the changes. "It should stay the way it is," he said.

Beyond the impact of winters, he said, the number of coyotes is growing and the animals are taking a lot more deer. DEC officials said extending coyote hunting season is being reviewed.

"My family is usually good for four deer," Markus said. "This year with five people we got one."

He said, "I’ve hunted for 30 years and this is the worst season I’ve seen."

Kenneth Roe of Laurens also opposed the change.

"It will interfere with bowhunting when stealth and quiet is very important," he said.

Jim Mead, a long-time muzzleloading enthusiast who was not at the meeting, said later that as long as the change gives bowhunters extra time in the woods at the start of the season, he didn’t know why it would be opposed.

Andrew Mason, conservation chairman for the Delaware-Otsego Audubon Society, received a stormy reception from the audience as he gave that organization’s point of view.

"Deer hunting is losing popularity," he said. "Hunters grow older and fewer every year."

As a way to keep the deer population under control to preserve vegetation, he said the DEC should look at the use of mountain lions and timber wolves. The organization opposes open season on coyotes.

Senior DEC wildlife biologist William Sharick said later that the process to decide on the regulations could take about six months but will be done, one way or the other.

The DEC commissioner’s office will decide from the comments received during the entire process whether or not the proposals will be accepted for the start of the fall hunting season, he said.

He said about what he heard Saturday that people didn’t seem to like the blending of the early seasons.

But "most of the people (at this meeting) appeared to be bowhunters," he said.

From this and other meetings around the state so far, "we don’t yet have a good feel" about what non-bowhunters think about the proposal, he said.

People tend to come to the meetings " if they feel passionately and if they feel negatively" about an issue, he said.

He said a more diverse range of opinions could come in from other means such as e-mails and letters.

The proposals discussed came from working with the state Conservation Council, a representative group of sportsmen, he said.

More information on the proposals can be found at www.dec.state.ny.us.

[Guest Squirrelbuster]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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If they want to change something...maybe they should Start There instead of Season Bashing Archers!!!

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I have to say something about this.

The proposals for the season changes were thought of through public comments. These changes did not just come from the DEC. So my point is why is everyone putting down the DEC for these season changes, IT WAS THE HUNTING CROWD THAT WANTED CHANGES, so if you are going to bash on someone do it to the people of the public that thought of these things. Granted that puts me in the crosshairs because I am in favor of the muzzleloader season but that is still better than being angry with the DEC officials who are just here to help out the hunters.

[Guest Squirrelbuster]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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Speakers opposing the change cited not only safety, but said shooting would ruin the quiet pleasures of bowhunting. The noise would also change the behavior of the deer, they said.

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On this comment I have to say that if you hunt on Puplic land the noise won't matter much. Bird hunters are out during this period blasting there shotguns off and that doesn't effect anything. Also if there are waterfowl hunters around, the magnum shells that these people use are nearly as loud as any muzzleloader so whats the difference.

For the people that hunt on Private land, if you own that land and there aren't bird hunters around and it actually is quiet then all you have to do is restrict other people that hunt your property to bows only and then you don't have to worry about the muzzleloaders.

[NYBUCK]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

Squirrelbuster, don't take thsi the wrong way, by any means I am not putting you down or trying to aggravate you, but .... when were you asked for your input on these changes. If you were then you were the only one I know. Because I was never asked nor do I know of anyone who was asked if they wanted changes. We are all entitled to our opinions, that is what makes the country what it is. My opinion is the DEC has detroyed our herd, mismanaged the herd and it the reason why less and less people are hunting or interested in hunting in NY state.

[Guest Squirrelbuster]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

I am not trying to engage in an argument, however, DEC has had meetings in the past and opportunities on their web site for the public to put in their comments for season changes.

[Doc]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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These changes did not just come from the DEC. So my point is why is everyone putting down the DEC for these season changes

[/ QUOTE ]

The following quote is from the latest issue of New York Outdoor News: "Eric Bratt, president of the New York State Muzzleloaders Association, says his group has no official position on the proposal"

However, I have heard DEC personel repeatedly say, verbally and in written text, that they want this season as another tool for reducing the state herd.

Now, who exactly is it that is pushing this early muzzleloader season? And exactly who is it that arguments against the season should be directed toward?................you figure it out.

Doc

[Doc]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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He said about what he heard Saturday that people didn’t seem to like the blending of the early seasons.

But "most of the people (at this meeting) appeared to be bowhunters," he said.

From this and other meetings around the state so far, "we don’t yet have a good feel" about what non-bowhunters think about the proposal, he said.

People tend to come to the meetings " if they feel passionately and if they feel negatively" about an issue, he said.

He said a more diverse range of opinions could come in from other means such as e-mails and letters.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I will repeat: It is great that we are overwhelming these meetings with attendance and unity, but, DO NOT ignore sending in written comments! I have heard that we are not doing that well in that category of responses. As you can see from the above quote, the DEC is just looking for something to negate the overwhelming, unanimous bowhunter turnouts at these meetings. If these written responses should come out in favor of the muzzleloader season, guess which reults they will use in their decision-making. And once again, we will hear that "the hunters asked for it". The true attitude and bias is showing through loud and clear in that DEC quote above. We think we are winning, but that DEC quote shows you exactly the counter-strategy that they hope to use. They are already starting to downgrade the meeting results. I suspect that is because the meeting strategy has back-fired on them.

This is no time to let up on the pressure. Keep attending the meetings, but also, keep those letters and e-mails flooding in, or all of our efforts will wind up for nothing. Man, I just cannot stress this enough!!!

Doc

[Guest Squirrelbuster]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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And exactly who is it that arguments against the season should be directed toward?................you figure it out.

Doc

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Granted, the arguments should be sent to the DEC but I still say that harsh comments about the DEC should be left out in the process.

[NY911Bowhunter]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

SB,

You are corect about there already being numerous guns in the fall woods. Turkey Hunters, small game hunters, burd hunters, deer hunters sighting in or practicing, the local gun buff blowing through a magazine or two, etc.

The difference is that deer probably interpret "hearing a gunshot" and "BEING SHOT AT" a wee bit differently!

I am sure you hear gunshots while in the woods right?

Would you be reacting differently if one went whizzing by your head? You betcha!

I think DEC REALLY needs to investigate this more, without the urgency of the Fall timeline pressing on us all! Maintain the status quo for a year or two more, really get everyone together, to represent ALL interested groups, compare REAL,HARD data (if they can find any!) , and prepare a fair, well though out, EFFECTIVE plan for New York's hunting seasons!

[GWSmith]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

[ QUOTE ]

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And exactly who is it that arguments against the season should be directed toward?................you figure it out.

Doc

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Granted, the arguments should be sent to the DEC but I still say that harsh comments about the DEC should be left out in the process.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harsh Comments?????

I geuss you interpreted my comment as a personal attack(being you are an avid muzzleloader).

My question to you...and the other AVID Muzzleloader people....

WHERE WERE YOU AT????????????

DID YOU CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THE POSSIBLE CHANGES TO TAKE TIME AWAY FROM YOUR FAMILYS AND ATTEND THE MEETINGS AND VOICE YOUR OPINIONS??????????????

Advocate for what you want.............IN PERSON

Advocate for what you want in person.............

***********IF ITS THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU*************

We BowHunters have...Where were You?????????

The DEC asked for Public Comments....are you not part of the Public????????????????????

[RTF]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

Also guys at the meeting in Oneonta, that they are going to try a 3 year program in Ulster county where antler restrictions will be in place for anyone hunting this area, starting in 2005. It was 2 units mentioned, so if you hunt Ulster County which across from Dutchess county and north of Orange county check the regs when they come out.

[Guest Squirrelbuster]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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DID YOU CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THE POSSIBLE CHANGES TO TAKE TIME AWAY FROM YOUR FAMILYS AND ATTEND THE MEETINGS AND VOICE YOUR OPINIONS??????????????

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Just to let you know, yes I did go to the meeting in Binghamton, but you are right about one thing, I did not get up and say anything for two reasons, I am not an avid speaker so when I am in front of a crowd no matter what the subject is about I can't speek (and I am sure I am not alone here). Secondly, as I sat there listening, the Muzzleloader hunters that did speak said what was on my mind any way. If I could speek in front of everyone the main thing I would have to say is that the hunting heritage is weakened when there is a division between the hunters, therefore making it even more susceptible to attacks by anti-hunting organizations, so no matter what anyone's opinions are, we should be able to work together to get rid of the division. This means that we have give and get.

[Guest Squirrelbuster]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

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Walk out of the cave. Go climb up in a treestand for an entire archery season without making a noise. Sit there and just watch.

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I also do this, but that doesn't change the fact that muzzleloader hunters should not be deprived of having an equal opportunity in the early season even if it is in the beginning of October or where they have it proposed now.

[Guest Squirrelbuster]

Re: NY deer Hunters ?

Aside from all muzzleloading season arguments, one thing is for certain, we need to try to make the legislature allow a decrease in hunting age or to abolish the age limit all together.

As far as this goes, I don't care who you are, if you do not agree with me on this then you do not care about the future of hunting because the next generation is the ones that will continue the hunting tradition. And to get them interested in hunting, they have to be out there with us in the field and it is a lot more fun when they can carry a gun or bow with them.