hung up on "score"

[Doc]

It's funny how nobody has bothered to find a way to score a rabbit or squirrell, or grouse, or fox, or woodchuck, but when it comes to deer, people feel a need to reduce success to numbers. It's all hunting, but when we get to big game, we seem to set up a whole different way to judge success. I'm not saying that one is right and the other is wrong, I am just pointing out something that is curious.

Doc

[wtnhunt]

It's funny how nobody has bothered to find a way to score a rabbit or squirrell, or grouse, or fox, or woodchuck, but when it comes to deer, people feel a need to reduce success to numbers. It's all hunting, but when we get to big game, we seem to set up a whole different way to judge success. I'm not saying that one is right and the other is wrong, I am just pointing out something that is curious.

Doc

Not really a small game hunter, but don't some folks boast on whether they are able to fill their limits or on size of a particular small game animal they may take or the uniqueness of a particular animal, how much their fish weighed? May be different, but maybe not so much, all a matter of perspective and how you choose to look at it. Think there is a difference here in what you are calling competition and maybe what you see is maybe more a drive or self motivation. The score is just a method for some people to measure their own success or to set goals for themself. Sure some folks out there want to compete against others scores, seems kind of natural to me for people to want to be the best they can be at whatever it is that they are doing and for some that may mean measuring against what their peers have done.

I don't see where there should be a problem with any hunter setting themselves goals and challenging themself to hold to those goals whatever those goals may be for whatever game it may be that they are hunting. Some hunters may put a lot of emphasis on a size or score of an animal, to each their own. How does that effect anyone else, if you don't like it you can choose not to be subject to it. No one says you have to change your goals because someone else discusses scores. Some regs for some places require a minimum score on an animal for it to be legal, assuming there is reason behind that. That in mind seems it would be in a hunters best interest to have an idea how to score those animals in those situations where it applies.

Some hunters may measure their success by score, while some may measure theirs by the quantity of meat they put in the freezer, while yet others may measure their success by their experience in the field. Hunt to satisfy your own goals. Honestly seems kind of pointless to bicker between ourselves as hunters over something so petty, jmh2cw.

[fly]

Getting back to the original post Elkoholic was wondering "if we have begun to loose focus on why we hunt."

Then explains his/her opinion on hunting.... "but we need not be all that concerned about the inches of antler. It is about the experience, not the amount of bone we can hang on the wall."

I don't think anyone would disagree with my statement that an opinion should be a used in a singular context. So the word "we" should be replaced with "I".

The debate ensues because "WE" hunters do hunt for different reasons and therefore have a different focus. We cannot expect all/most/or even some hunters to hold the same opinions on hunting or why all of us hunters hunt. If hanging bone on the wall is the only reason a hunter hunts then what's wrong with that? May not be my focus but as long as it is done legally why should I take issue with it?

[Ethan Givan]

Getting back to the original post Elkoholic was wondering "if we have begun to loose focus on why we hunt."

Then explains his/her opinion on hunting.... "but we need not be all that concerned about the inches of antler. It is about the experience, not the amount of bone we can hang on the wall."

I don't think anyone would disagree with my statement that an opinion should be a used in a singular context. So the word "we" should be replaced with "I".

The debate ensues because "WE" hunters do hunt for different reasons and therefore have a different focus. We cannot expect all/most/or even some hunters to hold the same opinions on hunting or why all of us hunters hunt. If hanging bone on the wall is the only reason a hunter hunts then what's wrong with that? May not be my focus but as long as it is done legally why should I take issue with it?

Well said. I agree.

[Doc]

It's interesting that just tonight I watched a TV progam that had Micheal Waddell talking about his views on scores. He too said that he has no real interest in scoring. He just knows a good buck when he see it and doesn't require a tape measure to be happy with his kill no matter how big it is. He also claimed that he has never put any of his kills in any of the record books. He further said that he doesn't believe that anyone should be trying to force their standards on any other hunters (unrelated comment that is completely off topic, but interesting anyway).

Regardless of what he had to say, and whether you or I agree with his comments, I think it was quite a coincidence that that program happened to be on the very same day that I read this thread.

Doc

[texas8point]

AMEN Elkoholic ! Well said brother. We usually try and wait until a buck is 3.5 before we would consider shooting, but a good way to judge a deer is by asking yourself "will I mount this buck" ? If not, you may as well pass on him. If your not going to put him on the wall whats the point, plenty of culls and does to fill the freezer. JMO

[Randy]

I'm not so sure it's about losing focus on WHY we hunt as much as it is changing WHAT we hunt. With more and more people practicing QDM I think the focus has turned to bigger bucks. Years ago before QDM was so popular the big thing around here was, "did you get your buck?". That always seemed to make you a good hunter in everyone elses eyes. Many places are probably still like that. I personally don't dwell on score so much as "is it a good one for the wall." I won't shoot it if I'm not going to mount it. I am fortunate enough to HAVE that luxury where many people don't. I can alway shoot a doe. (or 10 LOL) So to answer your question, no, I don't think we are losing focus, I just think the focus has changed...

[Stinger-Hunter]

I think being "obsessed" with age and score is just a reflection of the respect people have for older, smarter bucks. It is a different world of hunting when you are able to take a 5 1/2 - 8 1/2 year old buck than to take a 2 1/2.

I think the score and rack are just a measurement of the accomplishment. Being able to out-sneak a 5 1/2 year old buck is worth mentioning, mostly because they are rare. No one brags about killing rabbits, ducks, geese - They aren't rare.

[okiedog]

I personally don't dwell on score so much as "is it a good one for the wall." I won't shoot it if I'm not going to mount it.

I agree with you Randy for the most part, but I have been know to get caught up in the moment:gun_bandana:

[hyperflow]

Personly for me its just the challenge. What i normaly do is from all my trail camera pictures i pick 1 deer to harvest, some years 2. I try to hunt this 1 or 2 deer all fall. If i dont get a chance then i go home with a tag sandwish.

I think all hunters hunt look for new challenges after a while they been hunting. Some ppl go back to recurves, i try to shoot bigger deer.

[elkoholic]

Many thoughtful replies on this. When it is mentioned about the competition between hunters and having to have a way to see who's winning, I just think that antler score is just a very small piece of the story. If you are fortunate enough to be able to hunt a big buck hot spot and harvest a 180" buck while sitting in a tree stand on the edge of a food plot, how do you compare that to a hunter who worked his/her butt off in a heavily hunted area with no food plots/agricultural fields and harvested the king stag in that area that might have 100" of antler? As far as the supposed competition between the hunter and the deer, it is hardly a competition from the deers point of view, but the older a buck gets the harder they are to hunt mainly due to the fact that they become more nocturnal and have learned all the escape tricks. By making hunting a competition, I feel we are devaluing the experience. Strangely enough, you will see me listed in the deer hunting competition here on the forums. Personally, the areas in which I hunt gives me the opportunity to see mature bucks on a regular basis because of minimal hunting pressure and I tend to pass on younger bucks and hold out for an older, heavy antlered buck. My real focus, just to be out there and hunting, and every hunt should be a journey. Getting cold, wet, tired and just being in the woods is what makes up the hunting hunting experience. The score? How about the miles, cuts and bruises, and the flora and fauna, along with the weather experienced during the journey? The venison in the freezer is not so bad either. Hope everyone "scores" this coming season.

[Doc]

Many thoughtful replies on this. When it is mentioned about the competition between hunters and having to have a way to see who's winning, I just think that antler score is just a very small piece of the story. If you are fortunate enough to be able to hunt a big buck hot spot and harvest a 180" buck while sitting in a tree stand on the edge of a food plot, how do you compare that to a hunter who worked his/her butt off in a heavily hunted area with no food plots/agricultural fields and harvested the king stag in that area that might have 100" of antler? As far as the supposed competition between the hunter and the deer, it is hardly a competition from the deers point of view, but the older a buck gets the harder they are to hunt mainly due to the fact that they become more nocturnal and have learned all the escape tricks. By making hunting a competition, I feel we are devaluing the experience. Strangely enough, you will see me listed in the deer hunting competition here on the forums. Personally, the areas in which I hunt gives me the opportunity to see mature bucks on a regular basis because of minimal hunting pressure and I tend to pass on younger bucks and hold out for an older, heavy antlered buck. My real focus, just to be out there and hunting, and every hunt should be a journey. Getting cold, wet, tired and just being in the woods is what makes up the hunting hunting experience. The score? How about the miles, cuts and bruises, and the flora and fauna, along with the weather experienced during the journey? The venison in the freezer is not so bad either. Hope everyone "scores" this coming season.

Very well put, especially the part about rack scores being such a poor indicator of hunting prowess. Here in NY, we have areas that are even more challenging than heavy pressured pubic lands. The Adirondack Park area can be even more challenging as I understand it. There are areas of wilderness with unbroken mature forest canopy which provides the worst deer habitat possible. That along with the fact that winter snowfalls are so severe that it is amazing that any deer survive there at all. I would guess that the challenge there is to find any kind of deer at all. In the past, there have been some other areas of the state that have had over issuance of antlerless permits, or winter weather events that have thinned out local herds to the point where finding any deer provided a nearly overwhelming challenge. As you say, compare that sort of thing to highly managed areas with food plots, winter feeding, maybe some fencing thrown in here and there, and the measurements of hunting challenges change significantly. However, as seen on TV or any place where hunters congregate, credit is only given to those harvesting the largest set of antlers with the best score which may or may not have any relationship to challenge. That's why that sort of thing is really quite meaningless. Also, all that aside, is that really why we hunt? Is it to impress others? It just might be that one reason hunter numbers are nationally on the decline is because of personal frustration over failure to impress others since we have failed to really recognize the other more important benefits of hunting. This competitive spirit of hunter against hunter can only result in a handful of happy hunters. But competition with the available local game leaves unlimited possibilities. Couple that with the enjoyment of the natural experiences that happen everytime you step into the woods, and there is no reason that any hunter should leave the sport in frustration.

Doc

[sluggunner]

Lots of great opinions here.

This is a very interesting post to read, so many really good views on antler scores. I like most of you if given the choice would rather shoot a buck with large antlers, than one with small antlers. It is just human nature to always want or equate bigger with being better. I don't think there is a person on this site that if they were hunting and two bucks stepped out in front of them and both presented an equal shot opportunity would not chose to shoot the deer with the larger set of antlers. I am happy any time I take a deer, but would a 180 class deer make me happier than an 80 class deer,? Sure it would, just like landing a $50.00 an hour job would make me happier than landing a $5.00 an hour job. Or catching a 72 inch muskie would make me happier than catching a 27 inch muskie. It is all based on how rare something is that makes it more "valuable" or more coveted, sought, whatever you want to call it. I think that is the bottom line here when it comes to scoring antlers. We all know that a 180 class buck is very rare indeed and that in itself makes him more of a prize than a 110 class deer. Just like winning the Superbowl means more to an NFL player than winning a regular season non conference game. Sure, you want to win both games, it is just that one is more rare so it is more highly valued. Does that make sense?

[Tominator]

one has to wonder if we have begun to loose [sic] focus on why we hunt.

Why you hunt is why you hunt. Why others hunt is for big antlers and it's tough, and dare I say unfair, for anyone to press their desires onto another hunter.

It is about the experience, not the amount of bone we can hang on the wall. Good hunting to all. Enjoy the journey.

Some enjoy the journey by getting caught up in the rack.