Blackhorn 209 Powder

[cbahunter]

I have been doing a lot of research into Blackhorn 209 powder and most of what I have read is positive, but I would like to hear from those who have actually used this powder and hear what they have to say about it. The powder is a little more expensive than say triple 7 but the advantages may outweigh the difference in cost.

I am currently shooting a TC Encore Endeavor and would appreciate any input on what a good load and bullet would be for this gun.

[Buzz]

I've used just about every powder since I picked up a MZ 25 some years ago and this stuff is the shitzz. No more patches after every shot, no more having to clean the gun upon walking in the door or else.... and great accuracy to boot.

I shoot an Encore. FWIW

Also might want to read this...

Edited October 6, 2009 by Buzz

[hammerforged]

I shoot a CVA Kodiak Magnum in 45 cal. She absolutely loves the Blackhorn 209, yes it is a little more expensive but the accuracy and maintenance make up for it, believe me! I have no qualms about putting multiple rounds downrange without having to patch or clean between each shot. I use 120 grains of Blackhorn and 225 grain Powerbelt hollowpoints.

[IowaDeerHunter]

Best stuff out there!!!!

[dbHunterNY]

I've had a couple people recommend it. I've heard it's pretty consistent, but the non-corrosive and clean burning idea is making me think about switching from 777 pellets.

[DKA]

Best powder that I have ever used, clean, accurate, but a little expensive, but I think that it is worth it.

[jdavis]

I just broke down and ordered two jugs of it, cost me almost $90!! by the time I paid the stupid haz mat fee. I only wanted one jug just to give it a try but I knew if I liked it I would order another jug and have to pay the $20 fee again, so I ordered 2. I checked with all the dealers around here and no one seems to carry it so I didn't have much of a choice. I hope it's worth it.

[Buzz]

I just broke down and ordered two jugs of it, cost me almost $90!! by the time I paid the stupid haz mat fee. I only wanted one jug just to give it a try but I knew if I liked it I would order another jug and have to pay the $20 fee again, so I ordered 2. I checked with all the dealers around here and no one seems to carry it so I didn't have much of a choice. I hope it's worth it.

Yeah I'm having a hard time getting shops around here to carry it. I think a lot has to do with the claims made in the past that didn't hold true.

I don't think you'll be disappointed. :cool2:

[cbahunter]

I've used just about every powder since I picked up a MZ 25 some years ago and this stuff is the shitzz. No more patches after every shot, no more having to clean the gun upon walking in the door or else.... and great accuracy to boot.

I shoot an Encore. FWIW

Also might want to read this...

I tried this powder for the first time on Tuesday afternoon, I was really impressed with the performance that I was able to get. Three shots at 100 yards with 100 gr. and a 300 gr. Hornady SST LOW DRAG seemed to work the best about 1 inch group, then moved target out to 200 yards and was able to maintain a 2 1/2 inch group.

I did try some other bullets - 250 Hornady SST LOW DRAG and the group was about 3 inches at 100 yards then tried 250 TC Shockwave with 100 gr. and this load totally was off the target! I will be using the 300 gr. Hornady SST Low Drag combination this is the load that seems to work the best in this gun.

Thanks for your input.

Dennis

[Tecumseh]

I tried this for the first time today,and it's safe to say I'm done with 777.I used a 120 gr with a 250 gr hornady sst low drag sabot and the accuracy was even better than before and I didn't have to clean between shots.

[browtine2]

I shoot an Encore and have been use'in Blackhorn for 2 years. It's everything they say and more, I shoot more now because it's so clean. I shoot 100grns. behind a 260gr. Harvester Scorpion and it shoots great.

[FrontierGander]

Just wanted to share some stories off of another forum. These are just a few stories:

Call it coincidence, bad Carma, or just plane bad luck :-[ :-[ :'( as some one else just posted about this problem with BH209,

but I just returned back home from a quite good friends house depressed, greatly disappointed and with more than $200 gone from my checking account.

Got a call from my friend (at 7am) saying that his blued/walnut Encore 209x50 that he bought on my advice and then shot BH209 out of it again on my advice was rusted so bad it had to be seen to be believed.

I dropped what I was doing and went over to his house. Sure enough the rust in his Encore barrel was so bad you could see it by just looking at the end of the muzzle. I had the presence of mind to bring with me my entire gun cleaning/maintenance kit and gun smithing tools.

I removed the barrel and placed it in my portable vice and proceeded to give the barrel as cleaning that lasted over two and a half strait hours. I got the patches to come out about 95% still white and bore back to a mirror finish, but the pitting caused by the rust was so bad it was easily visible to the naked eye by simply holding the barrel up to the light and looking up it.

My friend never once even hinted that I was responsible, he simply wanted to see if there was anything I could do to fix it. Because it is so close to hunting season in IL, I felt i had no choice but to buy him another 209x50 barrel. He said he will not order it until we go shooting together tomorrow, but I told him to order it now because I am 99% certain the rust will return, and NSS might not be open when we return home tomorrow and he will need that barrel asap as he planed on using it during shotgun deer season.

For those wondering I did ask how long he let his Encore remain with a dirty bore having shot BH209 out of it, he said exactly 5 days in his basement that has a dehumidifier going 7/24 12 out of 24 hours a day and the Encore was stored in a fire proof Liberty gun safe with a large container of silicon desiccant also in the safe. He shot it on Tuesday of this week.

So I am now the not so proud owner of a severely pitted .50 caliber Encore barrel.

So I feel this proves beyond doubt that BH209 residue if left in your barrel WILL 100% RUST IT for certain.

Bottom line either treat BH209 like any other BP sub and clean your barrel ASAP, or risk ruining it.

Lastly is there any way I can salvage my new 209x50 barrel and remove the pitting? my gut is telling me quite strongly most likely NO!!.

I will write a letter to the makers of BH209 just to see what they will or will not do for me. After all it says on the bottle and on their pamphlet advertizing BH209 as being NON-CORROSIVE, when clearly beyond doubt it IS NOT and will RUST your barrel.

Ironic that the first and only (and hopefully last) firearm I have ever had to replace due to rust of any kind did not even belong to me.

If this costly mistake educates and prevents others from suffering the same fate, then I guess it is not a total loss.

It is really a GD shame as my friends Encore was real shooter.

Live and learn, be well,

Arthur.

------------------------------------------------------

I bought a new Knight Disc Extreme in July.BH209 is the only powder i have used in th rifle.I normally clean after every session.Last weekend I fired 6 shots.My son and his family stopped by.So i put it away and forgot to clean it.BIG MISTAKE.There was just as much rust as any powder i have ever used.The barrel is actually pitted.Im so disappointed in myself and bh 209.Actually im disgusted.After all the hype about this powder.I will use up what I have.But i will not waste the money on it after that.IF YOU ARE USING BH209 KEEP A CLOSE WATCH!!!!!!.It may buy you a day or two be fore you clean.But i would not go much longer.Billy

-------------------------------------------------------

This is a debate on many forums. BH209 WILL RUST YOUR BBL.

I nearly ruined a brand new Omega with BH209 due to their bogus claims. I shot the rifle and left it in my gun room for one week before cleaning, something I've done many times with 777 with no ill effects or rust issues. The bbl was full of rust and pitted. I was able to lap it and remove all but some minor pits near the breech.

I called Western Powders, they gave me an apology, sent me some cleaning supplies, and said they were going to have a meeting to discuss these issues that have been coming up.

The bottom line is they give false advertisement leading consumers to believe this is as user friendly as a smokeless MLer.

If you treat this just as any other BP sub, it has no equal. I love it, but I am very disappointed in that initial experience as well as the fact that they never changed the advertising.

Anyway, it cleans easier than any other sub and performs better, so I'll keep using it. After a ranges session, clean it like it were 777 and you'll be fine.

---------------------------------------------------

Blackhorn 209 is noncorrosive and virtually free of solid residue. Only a thin film of soot remains in the barrel, which will not harm your muzzleloader. There is no need to clean your barrel immediately after use. However, as with all firearms, we recommend using at least one wet patch of solvent after shooting to protect your barrel from moisture.

but if you click on down load brochure this is what it says so you might have a case! http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf

Immediate Cleaning Not Necessary

Blackhorn 209 is noncorrosive and virtually free of solid

residue so there is no need to clean your barrel immediately

after use. Only a thin film of soot remains in the barrel, which

DOES NOT absorb moisture or harm your muzzleloader

In short, Clean your rifle after using BH209!!

[Buzz]

Just wanted to share some stories off of another forum. These are just a few stories:

Call it coincidence, bad Carma, or just plane bad luck :-[ :-[ :'( as some one else just posted about this problem with BH209,

but I just returned back home from a quite good friends house depressed, greatly disappointed and with more than $200 gone from my checking account.

Got a call from my friend (at 7am) saying that his blued/walnut Encore 209x50 that he bought on my advice and then shot BH209 out of it again on my advice was rusted so bad it had to be seen to be believed.

I dropped what I was doing and went over to his house. Sure enough the rust in his Encore barrel was so bad you could see it by just looking at the end of the muzzle. I had the presence of mind to bring with me my entire gun cleaning/maintenance kit and gun smithing tools.

I removed the barrel and placed it in my portable vice and proceeded to give the barrel as cleaning that lasted over two and a half strait hours. I got the patches to come out about 95% still white and bore back to a mirror finish, but the pitting caused by the rust was so bad it was easily visible to the naked eye by simply holding the barrel up to the light and looking up it.

My friend never once even hinted that I was responsible, he simply wanted to see if there was anything I could do to fix it. Because it is so close to hunting season in IL, I felt i had no choice but to buy him another 209x50 barrel. He said he will not order it until we go shooting together tomorrow, but I told him to order it now because I am 99% certain the rust will return, and NSS might not be open when we return home tomorrow and he will need that barrel asap as he planed on using it during shotgun deer season.

For those wondering I did ask how long he let his Encore remain with a dirty bore having shot BH209 out of it, he said exactly 5 days in his basement that has a dehumidifier going 7/24 12 out of 24 hours a day and the Encore was stored in a fire proof Liberty gun safe with a large container of silicon desiccant also in the safe. He shot it on Tuesday of this week.

So I am now the not so proud owner of a severely pitted .50 caliber Encore barrel.

So I feel this proves beyond doubt that BH209 residue if left in your barrel WILL 100% RUST IT for certain.

Bottom line either treat BH209 like any other BP sub and clean your barrel ASAP, or risk ruining it.

Lastly is there any way I can salvage my new 209x50 barrel and remove the pitting? my gut is telling me quite strongly most likely NO!!.

I will write a letter to the makers of BH209 just to see what they will or will not do for me. After all it says on the bottle and on their pamphlet advertizing BH209 as being NON-CORROSIVE, when clearly beyond doubt it IS NOT and will RUST your barrel.

Ironic that the first and only (and hopefully last) firearm I have ever had to replace due to rust of any kind did not even belong to me.

If this costly mistake educates and prevents others from suffering the same fate, then I guess it is not a total loss.

It is really a GD shame as my friends Encore was real shooter.

Live and learn, be well,

Arthur.

------------------------------------------------------

I bought a new Knight Disc Extreme in July.BH209 is the only powder i have used in th rifle.I normally clean after every session.Last weekend I fired 6 shots.My son and his family stopped by.So i put it away and forgot to clean it.BIG MISTAKE.There was just as much rust as any powder i have ever used.The barrel is actually pitted.Im so disappointed in myself and bh 209.Actually im disgusted.After all the hype about this powder.I will use up what I have.But i will not waste the money on it after that.IF YOU ARE USING BH209 KEEP A CLOSE WATCH!!!!!!.It may buy you a day or two be fore you clean.But i would not go much longer.Billy

-------------------------------------------------------

This is a debate on many forums. BH209 WILL RUST YOUR BBL.

I nearly ruined a brand new Omega with BH209 due to their bogus claims. I shot the rifle and left it in my gun room for one week before cleaning, something I've done many times with 777 with no ill effects or rust issues. The bbl was full of rust and pitted. I was able to lap it and remove all but some minor pits near the breech.

I called Western Powders, they gave me an apology, sent me some cleaning supplies, and said they were going to have a meeting to discuss these issues that have been coming up.

The bottom line is they give false advertisement leading consumers to believe this is as user friendly as a smokeless MLer.

If you treat this just as any other BP sub, it has no equal. I love it, but I am very disappointed in that initial experience as well as the fact that they never changed the advertising.

Anyway, it cleans easier than any other sub and performs better, so I'll keep using it. After a ranges session, clean it like it were 777 and you'll be fine.

---------------------------------------------------

Blackhorn 209 is noncorrosive and virtually free of solid residue. Only a thin film of soot remains in the barrel, which will not harm your muzzleloader. There is no need to clean your barrel immediately after use. However, as with all firearms, we recommend using at least one wet patch of solvent after shooting to protect your barrel from moisture.

but if you click on down load brochure this is what it says so you might have a case! http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf

Immediate Cleaning Not Necessary

Blackhorn 209 is noncorrosive and virtually free of solid

residue so there is no need to clean your barrel immediately

after use. Only a thin film of soot remains in the barrel, which

DOES NOT absorb moisture or harm your muzzleloader

In short, Clean your rifle after using BH209!!

I don't know what to say, except I assume you work for 777.

I removed the barrel and placed it in my portable vice and proceeded to give the barrel as cleaning that lasted over two and a half strait hours.

What could you possible do to clean a MZ barrel for 2.5 hrs straight, except maybe cut it in half, clean it, and weld it back together. :hammer1:

If I hadn't left my Encore uncleaned in my detached garage for days I'd still call BS on your post.

[FrontierGander]

thats just some stories i read on www.dougsmessageboards.proboards.com

I dont work for 777 777 will rust and corrode your bore too, along with pyrodex and the real stuff.

Just thought it would help save heartache and $$$ down the road.

2.5 hours was probably the guy cleaning the rust out of his barrel!

Still calling BS on my post even though i put the facts straight in front of your face?

[Buzz]

Sorry, didn't mean to upset you but....

really think about it, cleaning a MZ barrel for 2.5 hrs straight... either he's dumber that a box of rocks or that's flat out BS. Either way....

Do a search for Blackhorn and rusted barrels and see what you find. I didn't come across anything to warrant concern. Seems like those guys are the only ones having problems. Now granted I wouldn't stash the gun away for a couple of weeks, but I have myself left my gun uncleaned in the garage for days with no ill effects. First hand experience, not something I read on the net. But, taken off another web site:

It does not need cleaning after shooting... I left my Optima in my humid basement after shooting for 2 weeks, and then swabbed the barrel, and all that came out was a thin black residue... absolutely no rust at all

So, I didn't mean to yank your chain, but on the other hand maybe a little reasearch would have been in order, as opposed to reading something then running around yelling "fire". Maybe all those guys work for 777.:shifty:

[FrontierGander]

from (sabotloader)

Western Powders has changed their stance somewhat on BH-209 and corrosion. The powder itself is not the problem the soot left in the barrel can be.

This is the label on the new bottles of BH-209 stating the new policy...

In a recent email from Western Powders they indicated the same thing and said the labels have been changed to reflect their findings....

[Hulions]

I have been shooting BH 209 for over a year now and will not shoot anything else. I love the stuff. I started using it in my Omega and had some great results. I bought a new Endeavor last year and it really likes the BH209. I have been using 110gr of BH209 and either a 250 gr. shockwave with a Harvester short black sabot or a .430/265gr. Hornady FTX bullet with a Harvester green sabot. I have also gor some good groups with the 200 gr. shockwave, just haven't spent as much time with them as the other bullets. All of these loads are being ignited by a Win 209 primer. Go ahead a bite the bullet. Your Endeavor and the BH209 powder will make a great combination. Just remember that BH209 likes a tight fitting sabot and bullet combination.

[IowaDeerHunter]

I don't understand it.....even if they claim that why not just clean it asap? It takes what, a few minutes???

Even with those claims blackhorn is the best on the market IMO.

[Buzz]

I don't understand it.....even if they claim that why not just clean it asap? It takes what, a few minutes???

Even with those claims blackhorn is the best on the market IMO.

I agree in so much as I wouldn't leave my gun sitting around two weeks uncleaned. It is nice however to not have to clean it immediately after shooting. There are evenings when I get home after hunting I just want to take a shower and crash.

But these people stating they left their gun sit a few days or more and it was ruined, I just ain't buying that. Maybe if it were in a bathtub full of water....

[cbahunter]

Just a heads up...Cabela's has BH 209 on sale from October 22, 2009 until November 01, 2009 for $24.99. I picked up 2 more containers yesterday.

[browtine2]

Not proud of this but after shoot'in my Encore and CVA last winter I put them away and due to stupidity and a couple distractions I realized I didn't clean them 3 months later.

I was sick, I also shoot Blackhorn 209. I got them out and much to my surprise no rust. I cleaned them and they are as good as new. So as you might understand I find these stories hard to believe. Did they dirty their barrels with primers or maybe shoot one shot with Pyrodex or 777? After my experience I think there has to be an explaination.

[WhiteSmoke]

Blackhorn 209

Bass Pro Shops generally carry it. However, it's $44.95 for a 10-oz. cannister (as opposed to the usual 16-oz. cans). For me, the extra benefits of the Blackhorn aren't worth the cost. I'm sticking with Pyrodex RS.

[Hoosierbuck]

Holy cow! At that price I could buy a truckload of BH here and rent a truck, drive it to CA, sell it for $35 per each and make a killing!!

HB

[Tecumseh]

I used this powder for the first time this week hunting.I loaded my gun monday morning and went three days without shooting leaving my gun outside overnight in 20 degree temps and shot it Wednesday afternoon and went off like I just loaded the gun.