slugshooter Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 A lot of people say that America has the greatest system in the world as far as elections and things of that nature, without really knowing anything about other countries. Thats why this Comparative Politics course I am taking is required for the PoliSci major. We just had our first test and part of the first section was about Germany. I really like how Germany selects their president, plus, European democracies have a looooooowwwwww spending limit and a very limited campaign season. Anyhoo, the thing I like about Germany is this, now imagine last election season cause I am gonna use their names. Say on November 2nd we had our first election, every candidate would be on the ballot so lets see we have: George Bush John Kerry John Edwards Howard Dean Al Sharpton Dick Gephardt Carol Mosley-Braun Joe Lieberman Dennis Kucinich Wesley Clark Now, on the 2nd, everybody in America votes for one of those candidates, the top 2 vote getters in that election face off about 3 weeks later in another election and whoever wins that is that President. I really like that system but it would never work here for a number of reasons, 1) The last election had a record number of votes cast, and it was still like a 55% turnout. People are gonna either turn out for the 1st vote or the 2nd vote, but the turnout won't be that great I suspect. 2)The electoral college would never be disbanded in order to accomplish this because our founding fathers didn't think we were smart enough to make the choice. Of course, other countries take their government and election process a lot more serious than we do. I honestly think that too much is said about our system being so great when our president is indirectly elected, not really a true democracy is it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? Another flaw in the system- you have 1 person in the 1 party against 9 from the other party. Assuming that at least 40% would vote down party lines, bush would have 40 % of the vote and the others would have less than 10% each tops. This would make the incumbant the winner vertually every time. Wouldn't work at all with our system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted February 15, 2005 Report Share Posted February 15, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? In theroy your plan works however, as long as you have multiple parties you WON'T have a party running against a seated President. [ QUOTE ] not really a true democracy is it [/ QUOTE ] This country wasn't founded under the "democracy" flag but rather was founded as a Republic. Check history - democracies don't last - nor will ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? we are a republic. libs want to change it to a democracy, even though every democracy in existance has failed or is failing. take germany. 12% unemployment, with little hope for recovery. france? may be too late to save them financially. the list goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? [ QUOTE ] Another flaw in the system- you have 1 person in the 1 party against 9 from the other party. Assuming that at least 40% would vote down party lines, bush would have 40 % of the vote and the others would have less than 10% each tops. This would make the incumbant the winner vertually every time. Wouldn't work at all with our system. [/ QUOTE ] You have to look at all the candidates as being from a different party. The last German election had 7 or 8 parties represented. It was all very close in the 1st vote, but the 2nd vote was the landslide. Schroeder got like 82% of the vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? Best or not it is our system. It works for this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted February 16, 2005 Report Share Posted February 16, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? [ QUOTE ] You have to look at all the candidates as being from a different party. The last German election had 7 or 8 parties represented. It was all very close in the 1st vote, but the 2nd vote was the landslide. Schroeder got like 82% of the vote. [/ QUOTE ] 7 or 8 parties….have you lost your mind? The way this country changes it’s mind on a whim, just imagine if we had 8 different parties running every 4 years just how screwed up things would get. A whole lot more screwed up than they are today with just 2 parties! How many parties can we come up with? Extremely Right Republican Party Middle of the Road Right Republican Party Extremely Left Democratic Party Extremely Extremely Extremely Left Kennedy, Clinton and Kerry Party Independent Party Libertarian Party Course, we’d have a few knucklehead parties sprout up like…. Gay Party All White Party All Black Party Everybody Else That Isn’t White or Black Party Ok, that 10 representatives running for President in the year 2004 so lets look at our candidates EERP - George W. Bush MRRRP – John McCain ELDP – John Kerry EEELP – Hillary Clinton IP – Ralph Nader for the 97th time LP – Neal Boortz GP – The queer from queer eye AWP – David Dukes ABP – Al Sharpton EETIWBP – George Lopez Ok, I’m thinking our system while flawed a little by electorial colleges isn’t all that bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? The electoral college is essential for our form of government--it works for us as William said--and was set up to create a balance between each state's influence on the federal level. No, our system definitely isn't perfect--but with the size of our nation alone, direct democracy would not work at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? It may not be the best, but it is all we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? I will take it over anything else that is on the face of the earth! Give me a "good" example of something better! Nothing that has been posted so far even comes close! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? can't imagine anyone smart enough today to do what our forfathers set up. i certainly don't want a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? I agree Steve...I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? Hmmm, our government has held elections for a long long time in comparison to other countries and they still go on today. Must tell us something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? [ QUOTE ] The electoral college is essential for our form of government--it works for us as William said--and was set up to create a balance between each state's influence on the federal level. No, our system definitely isn't perfect--but with the size of our nation alone, direct democracy would not work at all. [/ QUOTE ] Give me a break - while I'm thankful that Al Gore never made it to the pulpit in 2000 he did recieve the majority of the voteing population. Reverse this and Bush loses to Kerry after pulling down the majority of the vote and you'd have a different view of electorial colleges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? Regardless of who wins, I don't agree nor support the electoral college. I feel it was just a way for our founding fathers to preach democracy and it's greatness while still taking away our right to vote directly for our president. I still prefer casting a vote for president versus England who elect members of parliament and the majority party in parliament votes on a prime minister. I don't feel the electoral college does anything but tip the balance of an election. Gore won the popular vote in 2000, he should have been president, but because someone devised a way that determines one states votes carry more weight than another state, he was the loser, that is not democracy. Basically, the State of Ohio elected Bush, if the electoral college did not exist it would require candidates to campaign in all states, not just those that they feel are more important to their election chances, Bush and Kerry spent most of their time in Ohio and Florida last year, telling residents that their plan and ideas were the best for them, well great, but what about residents of Wyoming, or Delaware, or Rhode Island, they have needs and problems also. One or two states shouldn't carry the balance of a presidential election on their shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? SS, what you are saying is that just a few states elect the president. If you went by the popular vote there would be fewer states that elect the president because of the population of these states! CA, NY and IL would carry the whole country! Would this be a true election?? Heck no!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? [ QUOTE ] SS, what you are saying is that just a few states elect the president. If you went by the popular vote there would be fewer states that elect the president because of the population of these states! CA, NY and IL would carry the whole country! Would this be a true election?? Heck no!! [/ QUOTE ] It seems like even with the current system it is just a few states that elect the president. Like most have said in here no system is EVER going to be perfect, science class taught us that years ago. What we have has worked for a couple hundred years will continue to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? Yep, that is right CH unless we get someone like Kerry or Hillary in the whitehouse!!!! LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? [ QUOTE ] Give me a break - while I'm thankful that Al Gore never made it to the pulpit in 2000 he did recieve the majority of the voteing population. Reverse this and Bush loses to Kerry after pulling down the majority of the vote and you'd have a different view of electorial colleges. [/ QUOTE ] PH, I have to respectfully disagree with you. Yeah, I would be pretty ticked off if what happened to Gore happened to a Republican. But for the reason that OJR laid out, I do support the Electoral College. The other reason I do is I hate to see the Constitution messed with as well. We do have other problems with our system that are much more of a threat--namely election fraud. Each state has different measures, but in Wisconsin it would be VERY easy to commit voter fraud. If you know your neighbor is registered to vote, and if you know their name and address--and know how to find their polling place, you could say you are them and vote. When I go to the polls, I don't have to show ID in Wisconsin. I get asked two questions: Name? Address? You could even register to vote under a fake name if you can create a counterfeit utility bill. Though I hate giving more power to the federal government, to protect the integrity of the electoral process there needs to be some kind of federal standard. Though I staunchly oppose a national ID system (although social security cards ARE an ID), I would like to see standards for state photo ID card/drivers licenses that would make duplication of them nearly impossible--and that people be required to show them when they vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Re: Is our system really the best? you're right ss. gore did win the popular vote. but remember, weeks before the election he warned america that he might not get the most popular votes, but we must pay attention the the electoral college. in short, EXACTLY what happened to bush, he thought would happen to him. is turn-about not fair play? as far as the headline, is our system really the best, the proof is in the puddin' pal. how many illegals, and leagal immigrants are fighting to get in, versus how many are leaving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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