Does this conform?

[bobvz]

Hi all. I'm new to muzzleloading and am very interested in the smokeless variety. According to the following definition of a muzzleloader:Muzzleloader

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"A muzzleloader is any firearm into which the projectile and usually the propellant charge is loaded from the muzzle of the gun (i.e. from the forward, open end of the gun's barrel). This is distinct from the more popular modern design of breech-loading firearms."

Does this allow a rifle that loads a projectile from the muzzle, but has the propellant loaded from the breech, to qualify as a muzzleloader? I noticed it said "usually" in reference to the propellant.

Thanks,

Bob

[MichiganHunter]

I belive that most state hunting laws are going to say no...that the hole load charge, projectile must be loaded down and threw the muzzle, What were you thinking of as far as a gun?....I'll tell ya that keeping it simple is the best way to go if you were just stating out. Any weapon with a breach plug is what you want to get...easy to clean and easy to fix loading mistakes.

[bobvz]

Thanks for the reply. Most of my experience is in building centerfire sporting rifles. I like the muzzleloading concept, but I despise fumbling with the caps or 209 primers. So I've been thinking about alternative ways to go about it. I've got this basic idea:

Use a centerfire blank as the primer/charge source and muzzleload an overcaliber sabot round. For example: Take a surplus Mauser in 7.62x51 NATO thats got a rusted out barrel as a starting point. Remove the rear site, turn down and thread about 1 inch of the barrel ahead of the chamber reinforce. Cut the barrel off where the thread ends. Take a smokeless rated .45 -.58 ML barrel and drill and thread one end to take the threaded barrel stub. Turn up tightly. Then load a sabot down to where it stops against the stub face. Finally, magazine load a low, medium or full rated blank into the chamber and send the round down range. Its the same theory as a grenade launcher.

I'll check into my state's DNR laws regarding the definition of a muzzleloader. That will determine if it's a range queen or a hunter.

[quigleysharps4570]

Most states don't allow smokeless powder let alone a centerfire blank.

[SourthenILdeerhunter]

I'd check with your DNR but in most states i'm pretty sure that would be a illegal firearm

[bobvz]

Here is the language from my state's DNR reg's:

Primitive Weapons

For special primitive weapons seasons, primitive weapons include bow and arrow, crossbows and muzzleloading shotguns of twenty gauge or larger, and rifles of .36 caliber or larger with open or peep sights or scopes, which use black powder or a black powder substitute that does not contain nitrocellulose or nitro-glycerin components as the propellant charge. There are no restrictions on ignition systems including flintstone, percussion cap, shotgun primer, disk, or electronic. During primitive weapons season, no revolving rifles are permitted (50-11-310).

So it looks like I can use my system as long as the blanks don't contain smokeless. I could make up my own using BP or substitute. But I think there is a detonation risk since the powder column would not be in compression. It looks like this is a hunting bust but might make an interesting range gun.

Thanks,

Bob

Edited October 31, 2009 by bobvz

[Grady269]

Virginia allows use of smokeless powder in "Rifles Designed for it" but is must load from the muzzle. Savage makes a rifle "designed for smokeless". I know several people that have them and they are very satisfied. Still uses a 209 primer; just does not have the same cleaning requirements.

Savage has very specific loads that they highly recommend that you adhere to though. They must be weighed on an electronic scale as well.

[Urban_Redneck]

I like the idea, especially for removing the charge at the end of the day, it might work there are some concerns...

IMHO,

What would you use as a blank? a 45-70 case gives about 70gr (volume) of course you could go 45-90, 50-70, 50-90 50-110 or something trimmed between.

To avoid detonation, the bullet needs to be seated atop the powder without an airspace, thus some sort of wadding would be required to keep it all "solid". This may limit options for reduced power loads.

Finally, if cartridge of similar bore size could be seated in the breech, you'll have a hard time convincing the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) that the rifle isn't a breech loader.

If you don't have the dexterity to load a 209 primer you could try one of the 25acp conversions.

Just my $0.02

Jim