The_Kat Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Ok this is kind of political, but not totally political so I posted it in here. Here in Oklahoma the highway patrol has been falling under alot of scrutiny for some of it's control tactics. I'll be the first to tell you that if you cross a trooper, your gonna get your butt handed to you quickly. These guys don't play games. In the last year theres been three cases of abuse by state troopers, two of which have been caught on film. Both times troopers were released of any wrong doing, but still they had bad light shed on them. So I'm setting here watching the news when this third report of abuse comes on the screen. A trooper pulls this mexican over and he stops in the middle of the road. The trooper instructs the driver to get out of the road and pull over to the side of the street. Well this guy doesn't speak english well and supposedly thinks the trooper wants him to "get out of here" so he drives off. The trooper pursues him again and calls for backup. Finally the guy stops and is ectracted from the vehicle forcefully. The arrest takes place off of the cameras, but you can here a struggle on the audio. Three days later the suspect is photgraphed with some pretty bad bruises and swelling on his face. The mexican said he was hit 13 times in the face by the trooper and didn't understand what was happening. The trooper and the officers at his aid all say he struck the suspect four times in effort to extract the man from the vehicle and a fight ensued on the ground to cuff the man. I'll be honest, the pics of the man look alot worse than 4 hits to the face. BUT heres where I just freakin lost it during this story.....the lawyer representing this man proceeds to say that his client was abused and all this happened because he can't speak english and is an illegal immigrant in this country. I have two problems with this.....A. If this dudes an illegal and can't speak english and disobeyed the law he got what he asked for. B. Why on earth is this guy still here and how in the crap is he able to sue the Okla Dept of Public Safety/ OHP when he isn't a citizen of the USA???? It's total BS. It pisses me off, send this mexican back to Mexico and tell him to come back when he gets a green card!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cinch314 Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I understand what you are saying Kat, it irks me too. I agree that if abuse took place then the officers should be reprimanded but for an illegal to be able to sue just doesnt set right with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I'll be the first to tell you, and I'm sure swampy will agree.....in an effort to contain a perp, sometime you can't go by the book and you have to do what it takes to get them down. My very first use of force was against a large black mail twice my size. He rushed me and caught my asp in the ribs and then the neck taking him to his knees. Hitting someone in the neck is a red area, or in other words a no no to strike when trying to take a perp down cause it can kill em. Regardless I had to do what I had to do to protect myself......The suspect here was no little guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 What's an illegal doing behind the wheel in the first place? Throw the book at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layin on the smackdown Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 First of all, if i was driving in mexico and got pulled over, and was unable to understand what the officers were saying, and decided that they were telling me to get out of here, i would be sitting in a mexican jail wishing i was dead. Secondly, i probably would never have a right to an attorney, and lastly, i would be stuck in there for a pretty long time...and who knows how long i'd survive. Gaurantee this dude didn't have insurance, or a valid drivers license for that matter. What happens when he causes an accident? he has no insurance...he gets out scott free...Its a bunch of crap. I say extradite him back across the border...drop any and all files against the officers, and get them back on the road maintaining the law where they belong asap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Feel better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeramie Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Seems like our OHP is getting really out of hand Kyle. Dont get me wrong, the guy shouldnt have been driving or even in the country but you hear more and more about the OHP using excessive force. I know a few OHP's that are good guys but ive had one Ticket in my life. It was from and OHP that was a complete idiot. He thought he was 10' tall and bullet proof! What's an illegal doing behind the wheel in the first place? No Kidding... But welcome to Oklahoma. We have more than our fair share of illegals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchies Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 2 years ago now I was rearended in Grapevine, TX by a guy with no green card that was from El Salvador. He had no insurance. The cop started writing him tickets and I asked if he was going to arrest him. He said "Nope, The city agreed not to arrest illegals for the simple fact that if we did that is all we would do all day". I said what if I had no insurance...........He said "well I would have to arrest you". I said tell me what kind of sense that makes. He said I can't. I asked the officer kindly to leave. To that he replied " sorry I can't cause I would be back here in 10 minutes arresting you". To tell you the truth he was right.................he would have been cause I was fixing to wear that dude out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Seems like our OHP is getting really out of hand Kyle. Wrong....the OHP is not getting out of control. Granted every department has it's share of whack jobs, but the OHP is the best of the best in Oklahoma law enforcement. I know this because I've been through their selection process twice failing to get in. I finally got accepted my third time only to be dismissed due to state funding. What is getting out of hand is liberal media coverage on police tactics and control. Officers are trained to control a situation with the least amount of force necessary. Sounds easy and fair enough, but put yourselves in an officers shoes. I have very limited time as an officer, but I can tell ya it's dangerous. These troopers are doing nothing more than what they were trained to do and that is end a potentially dangerous situation quickly. I'm sorry but yelling at an offender to stop, or twisting his arm a little doesn't work that well. But twisting that arm to the point it wants to break, or smoking him upside the head yields a much faster result and ends the situation. Kissing an offenders butt does nothing more than get officers like my fallen partner Chase killed! A LEO should have complete control and authority of a situation. The OHP is VERY GOOD at this. Liberals and people who take what LEO's do for granted are the only ones with a problem with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowJoe Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kind of makes you want to get a Conservative in office real soon huh? I would love to get somebody in office to finish the wall and support the sheriff in Arizona. I think Sheriff Joe should be our head of Homeland Security!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I heard this the other day as well, and when I hedard the guy was an illegal, my first thought was "He got what he asked for!!" I say load his sorry butt up and send him back to wherever the he// he came from. Kyle, what is your take on the trooper/ambulance issue? I am kinda split on that one...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchies Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I by far don't take what they do for granted but I can tell you after I was stopped with my wife and kids in the car and both of the guys in the car had their hands on their firearms even when reapproaching the car after writing me a ticket I thought was a little excessive. My wife and kids were freaked out and I was pissed to say the least. Do I think there are times when a cop has to do what he has to do.............Yeah. I also know there are alot of cops that are straight up holes. We live a half mile from the lake. Few years ago we went to the lake to let the kids swim. I had 3 beers and refused to drive so she drove. She had forgotten her purse at the house. The OHP got all bent out of shape and wrote her a warning because in his words "he wasn't out drinking his coffee".................That was straight out of his mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Kyle, what is your take on the trooper/ambulance issue? I am kinda split on that one...... The trooper reacted quickly and efficiently. The only reason it is a big deal is because the person interfereing with official police business was an EMS driver on the scene. If that had been you or I walking up and causing a stink and he slammed us against the ambulance it would be a non issue. Not to mention the dude was black...... Bryan, I'm not saying they can't be jerks. I have been stopped by some loser cops, and even some troopers. Kingston PD is the biggest joke of a police dept I've ever seen. STILL, when it comes time to handle a situation, ya gotta do what it takes. Police excessive force does occur, but the whole point in my thread is why the crap does this illegal get to sue and why is he still here??? It's not are all cops and troopers perfect..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Im surprised no one has anything to say about this....this is our government choosing an illegal over its protectors..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dance.and.shoot Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Im surprised no one has anything to say about this....this is our government choosing an illegal over its protectors..... I'm choosing not to say anything because this is a family forum and i'd get kicked off for sure becuase i've tried to think of another way to say what i wanna say and i can't... just know i'm totally against it. totally and completely against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camoman1 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Send him back on the first bus going south!! English speaking or not...Flashing lights and guys with uniforms on is a pretty universal sign of 'Police'. He knew what was going on. Hard to say anything about the amount of force used without seeing what actually happened. No way should he be allowed to sue...and no way should ANY American lawyer be involved with defending an illegal immigrant in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) A. If this dudes an illegal and can't speak english and disobeyed the law he got what he asked for. B. Why on earth is this guy still here and how in the crap is he able to sue the Okla Dept of Public Safety/ OHP when he isn't a citizen of the USA???? send this mexican back to Mexico and tell him to come back when he gets a green card!!!!! A. I disagree Kyle. Just because he is an illegal alien does not mean he got what he asked for. No way, no how. B. He's able to sue, because he was wronged, ..regardless of who he is or where he is from. I do agree with you on your last statement though, ..."send this mexican back to Mexico and tell him to come back when he gets a green card!!" Im surprised no one has anything to say about this....this is our government choosing an illegal over its protectors.... He's not just an illegal. He's also a human being. The state troopers had no clue he was illegal at the time, and laid a beating on him, for kicks by the sounds of it. The illegal Mexican (human being), deserves justice, and deserves to be sent back across the border. Just because he is an illegal human being, does not mean there should be no justice for him, does it? Edited November 5, 2009 by buckee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugleward Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 (edited) Hey Guys: I just have to chime in here. I am on the politically INCORRECT side here. I have a formerly illegal working for me right now. I love the guy and consider him family. So I think my decency and fairness is evident. Now as far as illegals go... they are not citizens and are criminals and nothing more. Immediate deportation is in order any and every time they are identified as illegals. They do not have any rights here. They are absolute criminals and fugitives that threaten the safety of all Americans. They should be pursued with extreme prejudice. I also feel that anyone crossing the border illegally shout be shot on sight. I feel this way for good reason. I am also not some fruitcake radical. I am just a patriotic American whose ancestors came to this country legally and even some native heritage on my mother's side. I also understand that as of now the Mexican border is completely open and there are those who cross it many times illegally. I am also a decent human being with sympathies for my fellow human beings. So with that said... in order to close the border we must make sure the message of SHOT ON SIGHT, be given with enough advance warning that all would be illegals would know before crossing, their life will be taken if they are caught crossing. I had this discussion with my very close and dear friend Poncho. I asked him if he would have crossed if he knew he was likely to be shot. He said "**** no." Again I am not a nut or a radical. Just a fed up American patriot who is ready for Americans to take back control of America from those who would give this country's security away for a song and dance. You said this guy deserves justice. I feel he is a criminal and a fugitive and as such he is an enemy of the state and is not entitled to any rights. He has, by illegally entering this country, chosen to be a criminal. If a criminal enters my life and inflicts his criminal ways on me or my family he is just going to die that's all there is to it. When he chooses his criminal ways then he has chosen to accept a criminal's life. Like I always say "If you don't want to get run over by a car, don't play on the freeway." I'll not apologize for expecting those around me to follow the laws the same as I have to. If he commits a crime he must do the time. Edited November 5, 2009 by bugleward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Steve, I wish I knew how to do multiple quotes like you lol...... I guess I can see your point in my statement of him getting beat down being what he deserved a bit harsh.....but then again, you, nor I were there to know the full circumstance of why such force was used on him. I fully believe the trooper met the perp with the amount of force necessary based on his training. Then again I could be totally wrong and he may hay just beat the **** out of him for kicks and giggles. As for your second statement I disagree strongly. If you are not a citizen in this country then you do not have any judicial rights here. It'd be like me walking in your house and not liking the color it's painted and telling you you need to paint it another color. You tell me no, I get mad and sue you???? I can't go to china and sue one of their companies cause their cheap product breaks and doesn't operate as advertised. I can't go to another country and sue.....why can this guy? I'm pleased to find out that this case is very new and hasn't been heard in court. I am almost certain it will be thrown out and the guy will be deported after speaking with Trooper DeMarcus Ware through a few e-mails yesterday. The guy broke many laws. A language barrier is said to be the cause of his alleged failure to yield to the officer, which happens time to time....you have deaf people sometimes who can't communicate with officers. Yet as was said before....everyone knows what a cop is. Everyone knows what it means when his lights are on and he is behind you. English is our language here....if you can't speak it, GET OUT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doe-ee Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 We have some strange problems with illegal immigrants in Canada too. It makes me sick when these people are finally told they are to be deported, and they are somehow allowed to stay another 2 or 3 years to appeal the governments decision!! Most of them do so while collecting welfare and free medical. On top of this they're given a defense lawyer, free too, of course! We'd all save a bundle of money if, when the deportation papers are drawn up, the illegals are rounded up and put on the next plane out. No need for any violence on either side. In my opinion,(and Steve's) if you go to any country illegally you have no right to sue for any reason. It's just as ridiculous as prison inmates suing anybody they can think of for some pretty petty reasons. But just because someone has no rights or their rights are temporarily removed doesn't give anyone else the right to beat on them just for kicks. IF this is what happened in this case (and yes, we really shouldn't assume it did) then the cop(s) should be held responsible and reprimanded. The illegal may have no civil rights but they should still have human rights. Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 We have some strange problems with illegal immigrants in Canada too. It makes me sick when these people are finally told they are to be deported, and they are somehow allowed to stay another 2 or 3 years to appeal the governments decision!! Most of them do so while collecting welfare and free medical. On top of this they're given a defense lawyer, free too, of course! We'd all save a bundle of money if, when the deportation papers are drawn up, the illegals are rounded up and put on the next plane out. No need for any violence on either side. In my opinion,(and Steve's) if you go to any country illegally you have no right to sue for any reason. It's just as ridiculous as prison inmates suing anybody they can think of for some pretty petty reasons. But just because someone has no rights or their rights are temporarily removed doesn't give anyone else the right to beat on them just for kicks. IF this is what happened in this case (and yes, we really shouldn't assume it did) then the cop(s) should be held responsible and reprimanded. The illegal may have no civil rights but they should still have human rights. Just my 2 cents. Diana and I have been discussing this over coffee this morning and both agree, that although an illegal immigrant has no civil rights in a foreign country, they should have human rights. And "IF" the troopers did beat him up just for kicks and giggles, there does need to be an accountability...somewhere...somehow. Even in a time of war, we have the Geneva convention that is a testament to the fact that all people, everywhere should have basic human rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 kyle, the main problem here is our goverment. they will not allow states to ship the illegals back. even bush wanted to keep them and give them amnesty. obama loves them as they not only all vote democrat, they do it often (lol). the cops are simply not allowed to arrest the illegals for being illegal, which makes them legals in the eyes of the law. we're seeing an uprising going on right now. the people of america, like me, are FED UP! let your representatives know how you feel, and vote. we just saw it work our real well this week. in one year, we may actually be able to re-claim the american idea. but, who really knows. people are not only stupid, they have real short memories. meanwhile, i'm behind the cops. a bit rough but i'll take into consideration their personal frustrations and my personal feelings. wyoming has many illegals and there are/were most likely some on my job. they are very good, hard working folks in most cases, just wanting a better life. i want the same. but they are illegal and need to be deported when/as apprehended. our unemployment is at 16% nationwide (don't listen to the lying news media) and millions of jobs are had by illegals. the years-old excuse that we need the labor is simply non existant today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowtech_archer07 Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 As far as the illegal not having any judicial rights, yes Kyle I agree with you 100%. However I also have to agree with Steve that the man has human rights and if the OHP kicked the crap outta this guy for grins, they should be reprimanded. On the Law Enforcement side: this guy ran from the police, the police did not know why or what kind of situation this could turn into. Therefore, when they finally did get this guy pulled over, they had to take him into custody in any way possible. Guys, what a lot of people who are not in law enforcement (not saying anybody in here, more the liberal media you described) don't understand is that no matter what situation you are in and no matter who the perp is, LEO's want to go home and night and when you are in a situation like this, you have to take control of it NOW. The media just sees an illegal that got beat up and jumps on it trying to stir up trouble and get, what are more than likely great officers, fired. It's wrong, but like Steve said, it's the direction that our country is heading toward and it's definitely scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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