Speaking of PA...

[250savage]

After seeing all of the hunters reply to the thread about PA hunters i thought of a question. Do you think there are any WILD deer out there in PA that are over 3-4 years old? Also, how do you feel about the antler restrictions? Is it working? I have heard from a few people that its not working at all and that he hasn't seen this many small bucks in YEARS. Just wanted to know what everyone else thought.

[buckbuster11]

Here we go again.....:hammer1:

I'm not sure what you mean if there are wild 3 or 4 year old deer? Sure there are. They are everywhere. As far as antler restrictions, I'll keep it pretty short and sweet...not working. And most importantly it's taking some fun out of the hunt. If people want to trophy hunt that's fine. I hold out for a nice one myself, but people shouldn't be forced too. There is a giant 6pt with a 20" spread in my neck of the woods. I've had him in easy bow range twice and my brother has once. But, we can't shoot him because he doesn't have 4pts to a side. Yet, I can shoot the 1 1/2 year old 7pt with a 9" inch spread I've seen a couple times. Doesn't really make sense to me.

The doe season needs cut back to 3 days like it was before. And if they want bigger bucks my suggestion would be to cut the rifle season back a week and/or go to shotgun only. The big buck states do not have a 2 week rifle season and also DO NOT have antler restrictions.

[Missilelock]

Yes there are 3 & 4 year old bucks out there for sure.- one of my buddies just shot a 4 year old 8 point this week with a real set of headgear. I respectfully have to disagree with the last poster on antler restrictions. I have been bowhunting for 20 years , & In my early years I harvested 1.5 year old scrub bucks every year except one. For several years now, I have been able to take a much better buck every year.

[Strut10]

There are 4-5 year deer out there. Most of them are does. But there are some older bucks running around.

Antler restrictions working??

No.

I have never seen such a high percentage of complete scrub bucks as a total of the buck population as I have in the last 3-4 years. We're lowering the common denominator on antler genes every time a legal 1.5 year buck is shot.

[snapper]

I believe there are alot more 3-4 year olds than most think.

Is the antler restrictions working...depends on what your expecting out of them. Was the restrictions going to grow 180 class bucks everywhere...No! I can honestly say I see as many "scrubs" now as I used to...but I see ALOT more bucks that would make Pope and Young than I used to!

So for me...I say yes the restrictions are working. Granted there are some flaws with inferior genes not growing enough points to be taken out of the herd....but you'll never manage any ground completely.

As for reducing the number of days to hunt does...what difference does it make if we (PA hunters) kill 700,000+ does in 2 weeks or 3 days? And the last thing we want is a "shotgun" only season...that would help save some deer...but adds a good arguement to "why do you need them high power rifles for?"

[LifeNRA]

As far as the eastern side of the state, yes antler restriction is working. I don't agree with the four or more points for the western part of PA. Because the big six pointers they have out there are just dying of old age, and passing there genetics through breeding. In my half of the state, I see more bigger and better bucks than from years before. But yeah, there are 3-4 year olds running around.

I do agree with making the doe season back to three days. Maybe something like the last three days of buck season. Or having it like it was. But I can see where this could make some problems with people trying to get off from work. Or how about the Thursday, Friday, and Saturday of each week of buck season.

I don't agree with the shotgun only. Whats the difference if a bullet shoots 150-200 yards from a shotgun or rifle? Besides, I know many in PA are like myself, they don't own a shotgun for deer hunting. Which means we would all have to go out and spend money for a new hunting gun. Some of these people just don't have that cash!

[bghunter777]

Ok, let me throw my 2 cents into this. I live and hunt in Pa and have my whole life. The first question being asked are there any 4 plus year old wild deer?- I believe there are old bucks in Pa. How many though is the question. The percentage of older age class bucks is simply not there as a whole. Some places probably do have more than others but statewide there are very Very Few 4 plus year old bucks.

How do i feel about antler restriction?- antler restriction are a great idea but being exectuted poorly in Pa. It needs to be 4 on a side statewide. Yes you will have your outlier of a 6 pt that is 3 plus years old but that is Rare! trust me. I have read studies and 95 percent of 3 year old deer will have 4 on a side. In contrast Many 1.5 year old meet the 3 on a side regulation. Isnt that what we are trying to save??

A good antler restriction would be 14 inch spread. This eliminates all 1.5 year olds. People would go off on there how the **** do you tell if its 14 inches wide when its 200 yards running. you shouldnt be shooting 200 yards running and trust me when a 4 year old mature buck walks out. there is no question if he is a shooter. Look at other states. there are many laws that are much harder to decifer. Male and female ducks. sheep having to be full curl and i could go on and on.

Another issue of concern is the 2 week concurrent doe season! PA is very diverse when it comes to deer population. Your public hunting land Has 0 deer especially after opening day or rifle. Then you have private land that is way over populated. Why not make different regulation for different areas let local game officers localize it with the supervision of people trained to manage game. Doe season should be the last Monday of rifle and end on the last saturday.

In conclusion Pa has good ideas with antler restrictions ect. but very poor execution. The hunting has DRASTICALLY gotten worse in the last 7 years. Deer populations are way down. You still have nice buck but all the deer in between are gone. you used to pass up 20 deer to finally maybe or maybe not see that larger deer. Now you see 2 deer and may or may not see that shooter. This really takes away from hunting. Its fun to see deer when you hunt. I hunt in WV and love it its nite and day from the ocean of orange and deerless Pa!

[Grizz]

Here's my opinion and background on the original questions asked...

I grew up hunting both public and private land, before and after the points restriction took affect, as well as before and after the changed doe season regulations, in the western part of PA. Before the points restriction I would see very few deer on public land and averaged 13-15 deer each time I sat to hunt on private land. Most of these were does, but I did see some bucks, most of which were small 4 or 6 pointers that were 2.5 year olds. Before the doe season changed I harvested a doe every year since I was 12. After the season became longer I still harvested a doe every season, so I didn't see much of a difference in the overall deer population b/c of the extended doe season.

As far as the point restriction goes, my results were slightly different. Before the restriction I'd see roughly 4 or 5 bucks a season, all on private land, mostly comprising of 4 or 6 pointers, with an occasional 8 or 9 pointer showing up. And the first buck I ever harvested was a 4 point. After the point restriction I saw a lot more bucks, averaging 8-10 bucks a season and the size was fairly equal. I'd see 4 or 5 spikes, and 4 points running around, but I also saw more mature 8 to 12 point bucks running around. And just last year I had the chance to harvest a nice 3.5 year old 11 point.

So in my opinion there are a lot more mature deer, 3 and 4 year olds, running around now as opposed to before the restriction and I haven't seen any real difference in deer numbers, despite having a longer doe season. What I have seen, that is more alarming to me, is the amount of predators increasing in PA. I've seen more coyotes and bear than I ever have and believe they have put more of a hurt on the deer population than having a longer doe season, and feel that they need to be more closely watched and controlled if the deer population has a chance at growing.

I also feel that there needs to be another way, besides having a youth season, we can keep the inferior bucks out of the herd, as has already been mentioned.