Wisconsin Deer (mis)Management)

[billygoat]

Here it comes.... the big Gripe! The hunter who complains because "he" didn't see any deer! But wait, this isn't your weekend hunter, who waits for the gun deer opener, grabs the trusty 30-30 lever action and blaze orange, and heads out to the woods. I consider myself a longtime Wisconsin hunter (since 1985). And I like to believe I have a pretty good pulse on the "state of the herd" in the southern part of the state, which I hunt.

Over the past four years, I have spent, on average, greater than 150 hours on stand (between archery and gun season). Over those four years, I can say with a fair degree of certainty, that I have seen less than 30 deer (while on stand). In the last two years, I have seen less than 10 deer while on stand. This year, I saw 4 deer throughout all of my archery and gun seasons... all were buck and I was fortunate to harvest a nice 10 pointer with my bow. However, my concern is for the mismanagement of the Deer herd, by the DNR.

The deer herd is desimated! There are very few deer. I will not dispute that "some" farms have healthy deer herds, however, these farms are larger tracts of property whose landowners have taken it upon themselves to manage the herd, instead of "going along with" the recommendations of the DNR.

Wisconsin used to be recognized as a top 5 state for Whitetai hunting. I would be suprised, after the last several years, if they even crack the top 10. I am to the point where I am ready to take my time and money to another state... give up my lease, and hunt where I will at least see the quary I am hunting.

Wondering how everyone else's seasons faired?

[Tim Andrus]

what part is Dane county? Is that west side?? of state

[billygoat]

South Central. I actually lease property in Sauk County, which is west of Dane, still in the heart of the South Central Farmland of the state. It is also in the much "dreaded" CWD Zone

[Ravin R10 man]

You wouldnt want to know how poor the herd is doing up north then...too many wolves and bears eating the fawn crop.

[Tim Andrus]

Ok a few years back I had invite to Crawford county...Couldnt make it though...... Anything new on the CWD there its been a few years since all the hoopla

[pointing_dogs_rule]

Billygoat:

The IOWA DNR is following the Wisconsin model. In northeastern Iowa they are selling lots of doe tags over the last three years and telling the hunters you need to shoot the does. I have hunted in this area since 1989. I have 15 stands and spend as many hours as you in the woods. I take one doe per year and a wallhanger if the opportunity comes by.

I usually saw between 6-8 deer on any night in any stand (around 2000- 2004). NOW I HOPE TO SEE 1-2 DEER OUT OF ANY STAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When the automobile insurance industry askes the DNR to jump, the DNR asks "how high"!!!!! It's about time the DNR realizes who pays the license fees.... us the hunters!!!! It's about time we let them know this fact. No purchases means that the DNR funds will dry-up. It's time to boycott hunting for a year so that the DNR realizes where the money comes from.

good luck to all

the dog

[NBomb500]

Well, I am not trying to say that there hasn't been mismanagement of the deer herd, by the DNR, but in our area of eastern Montana blue tongue has knocked out "by my estimates" over 70% of the whitetail deer population. I have read that southern states with warmer temperatures can get hit harder than where it freezes or freezes earlier. Our area gets hunted hard and we still see amazing numbers most every year, except where there has been some sort of disease. Maybe the same thing is happening in Wisconsin. Just some thoughts.

- whitetail deer numbers went from 50-60 within a 3 mile radius of our place to about 10-15 at most.

[camoman1]

I agree that the DNR got carried away with all the earn-a-buck foolishness...I think they may finally be starting to see the error of their ways.(hopefully) The deer populataion definately does seem to be down considerably in some areas. Thats no surpise when you figure in the wolves, bears and the slaughter the DNR has funded.

I consider myself lucky because there are plenty of deer in my neck of the woods. I sincerely hope things will start improving in the rest of the state, but that is not going to happen overnite. Something needs to be done about the wolves...but we cant blame the DNR over that as it is out of their control for now.

[billygoat]

Ok a few years back I had invite to Crawford county...Couldnt make it though...... Anything new on the CWD there its been a few years since all the hoopla

Tim,

Crawford is in the CWD zone, the last few years, that zone was divided into EZ (eradication zone) and RZ (reduction zone)... that's right... they called it an ERADICATION zone! Their intent was to dissolve the entire deer herd in the southern part of the state! Well, my hope is it will never be eradicated, however they have managed to slaughter the herd!

You could not pay me enough money to come to WI and spend money as an out of stater to hunt where there are no deer. Unless I am going to a large tract of private land (>1500 Acres), I would not be coming here. Certainly, mature buck numbers are up (for now)... but give it another year or two, and all deer numbers will be down! Then what will be the big pull to the "great dairy state"... squirrel hunting?

[Jorden]

Do not even get me started on the DNRs Deer Eradication Program. The way they are running things in this state is absolutely rediculous. The insurance companies are running everything, telling the DNR to get rid of the deer. The DNR in turn has been shoving unlimited doe tags down our throats for years now telling us to shoot, shoot, shoot and we are now seeing the consequences. And CWD was the worst thing that could have happened for deer hunting in this state because it gave the DNR more reason to shoot more and more deer. We went through the entire summer without getting a doe on our trail cams and it took until the first week of november for one of us too even see one during season. It was nice because early in the season all we were seeing was bucks but come rut time they all left to find the does. I remember when I first started hunting and would see the same doe groups of 10+ in our fields night after night. Now we dont even bother to hunt those fields anymore because there are no deer.

The DNR is feeling the preasure and their so called "plan" for a 16 day gun season instead of 9 is no better than earn-a-buck program in my opinion. Gun seasons put enough preasure on deer and adding more preasure to an already decimated deer herd is not a good idea. What does the DNR want people to do, shoot more deer. And what will people do during a longer gun season...shoot more deer. That is really not solving the problem. The DNRs herd goal is about 700,000 deer. After last year they estimated the population to be at about 1 million and still people werent seeing deer. Just think what it will be like if they actually reach their population goal.

billygoat if things are bad down by you where, according to the DNR, populations are still more than 40% above goal, you cant even imagine how bad it is up her in central and even worse in northern wisconsin. I hunt in marathon county and I heard on the news this weekend that registration for opening was down almost 30%. Now the DNR can blame the weather but the fact is, you are still gonna see deer even if the weather is a little crappy.

Unfortunately unless us hunters do something this downward trend is just going to continue. Many hunters are going to shoot the first deer they see because they fear that they wont see another which just further adds to the problem as they are just shooting a deer to fill a tag. Now I have no problem with people shooting a deer if they want to but if they are going to complain about the lack of deer they are seeing then they need to take things into their own hand. Hunters need to come together to show the DNR that they are fed up with this mismanagement. The idea of not buying lisences is a good one because it would kick the DNR where it hurts the most, their wallets, but that idea is also unpractical because we all love to hunt. What hunters need to doe is actively not shoot does just because they have the tags. Myself, personally, I refuse to shoot a doe until deer numbers in our area improve...I want to be part of the solution, not the problem.

[billygoat]

I refuse to shoot a doe until deer numbers in our area improve...I want to be part of the solution, not the problem.

While I like your train of thought... we in the southern part of the state have NO CHOICE. If you want to shoot a buck, you must first "earn it" and shoot a doe! Which means... more deer will fall.

My only recourse is to not hunt! Take my money and my time and go elsewhere.

[Jorden]

While I like your train of thought... we in the southern part of the state have NO CHOICE. If you want to shoot a buck, you must first "earn it" and shoot a doe! Which means... more deer will fall.

My only recourse is to not hunt! Take my money and my time and go elsewhere.

Yes, we were lucky this year that they got rid of EAB up here but you guys got the short end of the stick seeing as you are supposedly still way above the population goal.

[Illinois59]

I hunted southern Wisconsin from Nov 13-19th. I saw one doe and two yearlings in 6 days of bowhunting on 3 different farms. Ouch! I was shocked to say the least. Good luck to all the residents in Wisconsin, I hope the herd recovers soon.

[JimT]

Come up to Maine if you really want to get disgusted.... This place is in the toilet. So bad that I am not even going to break out the muzzleloader this year. In the last two months I have seen a grand total of three deer. I put my time in and am very scent control concious. The governer will blame it on the bad winter we supposedly had last year, it being warm, and lack of hunter interest like he always does. In reality last winter was normal, the deer yards are now paper,the yote population is very high, and the IFW has overhunted the deer. The latest edition of The Maine Sportsman magazine predicts a total kill of 17,000 deer this year. Thats about one for every 23-25 hunters.

[davetucker]

Man i hear ya!!Maine used to be known not for the over abundance but for big bodieed deer!!I ahve hunted and hunted hard this yr in both seasons(bow now rifle) and have seen 4 deer and three were doe and never got a crack at the buck!!!We only have till saturday to be productive and than were screwed!!!I wish the state would close gun season for 3yrs to only 2 wks instead of all month!!We need to get our herd back whatever we do!!

[JimT]

They won't. To much money in it. They should get rid of expanded,start archery in the second week of October, start gun for three weeks the first week of November, then have a week muzzleloader and call it good.

[MNcrittergittr]

I was just talking about this today! I live in northern Minnesota and bowhunt my home state and also bowhunt Wisconsin. We spend litterally hundreds of hours a year hunting. I also spend quite a bit of time video taping and photographing. I'll admit, our land is a CRAZY deer heaven! That's really the only way I can describe it. Our property doesn't always fit the state-wide trends, but I know how great our land is and I know what's going on around the state.

Deer harvest for this year are down about 30% and a lot of people around here are trying to blame wolves...Give me a break! Ever since the DNR basically declared war on the deer and the auto insurance companies made their big pushes, the antlerless limits went through the roof and in turn of course so did annual harvests. So for about 3 to 4 seasons, harvests were up about 20% per season, which resulted in a 3 season average harvest increase of 60%!..Now people are wondering why harvests are down, and why they aren't seeing or harvesting as many deer! What do these people think that everyone can shoot 10 deer a year forever and we'll never notice a difference? Get a clue! There are over a million deer in the state of Minnesota and roughly 3000 wolves...anyone who thinks wolves are responsible for a dramatic state wide drop in harvests are out of their minds!

So it comes down to 2 main things, either hunters have accomplished what the DNR wanted them to and deer numbers are more where the DNR wants them or the DNR went over board and mismanaged. I'm pretty lucky to have the special places that I do to hunt, but I think overall in both MN and WI the DNR went over board. I read that the DNR plans on reviewing heard numbers this winter and spring, so we'll see but I think they went "kill em crazy" and I know I'm not the only one!

[cray8705]

It also doesn't help when you have people shooting the does that did survive the regular season in the December season when they are pregnant. My dad shot a doe last year in december that had two fetuses in. He basically shot 3 deer. I completely agree with everyone, the WI deer population is way down and thanks to our DNR it is only getting worse.

[sluggunner]

I'm in the same empty boat.

Billygoat:

When the automobile insurance industry askes the DNR to jump, the DNR asks "how high"!!!!! It's about time the DNR realizes who pays the license fees.... us the hunters!!!! It's about time we let them know this fact. No purchases means that the DNR funds will dry-up. It's time to boycott hunting for a year so that the DNR realizes where the money comes from.

good luck to all

the dog

I used to get at least one deer EVERY season from 1996 until 2007. I would also see deer while on stand and pass on many. Now I am still doing everything the same, being a scent control fanatic etc... AND I have not seen a deer on my properety in two years. Even took down the scouting cameras after 10 months straight of not getting photos of ANY deer. The food plots have turned into weed patches, the trees that were once all rubbed up every year have not had a fresh rub on them in over a year, the well worn deer trails are all gone. The deer droppings that used to litter the snow are almost non existant yet the wonderful Wisconsin DNR continues to tell us we are over run with deer and need to slaughter does and stack em' up like fire wood. I for one wish ALL hunters EVERY SINGLE ONE would boycott the 2010 season. Or at least Boycot shooting anything that does not have at least a 6 point or better rack on it. But I know that will never happen. Can you tell I'm angry too!! I basically quit deer hunting this year. Went out for a day and a half and then said screw it after once again not seeing any deer even off in the distance.

[gzilla45]

It seems to me based on talking to lots of hunters from all over the state that the deer population isn't anywhere near what the DNR thinks it is. It didn't take long for them to start blaming the weather for this year's poor hunt. If I remember correctly they said the same thing last year. I did manage to see 7 does this year which is 3 times as many as I saw last year so hopefully things are on the up and up. I was quite happy that in my unit (32) we couldn't shoot does this year. In fact I hope they do it again next year. I believe there to be 3 key factors specific to the area that I hunt that caused the drop in deer. The first is the fact that the over the last 5 years the DNR was practically giving away does tags and people took advantage. The other two problems are wolves and bears. As their populations have gone up, the deer population has gone down. I have sat numerous times this fall and when the wolves are close, the deer aren't anywhere to be found. When they aren't nearby the deer move. I can't figure out why people don't think the wolves are part of the problem.

[MNcrittergittr]

It seems to me based on talking to lots of hunters from all over the state that the deer population isn't anywhere near what the DNR thinks it is. It didn't take long for them to start blaming the weather for this year's poor hunt. If I remember correctly they said the same thing last year. I did manage to see 7 does this year which is 3 times as many as I saw last year so hopefully things are on the up and up. I was quite happy that in my unit (32) we couldn't shoot does this year. In fact I hope they do it again next year. I believe there to be 3 key factors specific to the area that I hunt that caused the drop in deer. The first is the fact that the over the last 5 years the DNR was practically giving away does tags and people took advantage. The other two problems are wolves and bears. As their populations have gone up, the deer population has gone down. I have sat numerous times this fall and when the wolves are close, the deer aren't anywhere to be found. When they aren't nearby the deer move. I can't figure out why people don't think the wolves are part of the problem.

There are a lot of people that are litterally crying wolf...I personally roll my eyes at the wolf claim. Yes, in certain areas I'm sure the rising wolf popluation in concentrated areas plays a role in deer harvests, but it's a relatively small role over all. Like I said in my post above, for example: there are over a million deer in Minnesota and roughly 3000 wolves. I can tell ya right now that that they aren't responsible for the dramatic drop in deer hatvests (over 30%) spread across the state.

I can understand the frustration that people have when they hit the stand and see wolves and no deer. But to me, thats just they way it is sometimes. Sometimes ya see lots of deer and get em, other times ya don't, that's hunting. A good buddy of mine has a cabin in the heart of wolf country, and they have always had great seasons. As a matter of fact, the biggest buck he ever shot in his life (a monster 16 pointer) and also the most does he ever shot in a single season was a year where he saw some of the most wolves ever.

I'm not saying predators are a non factor, just not the root of the issue or the biggest problem. I think we have bigger things going on. Either way, we have an amazing deer population, beautiful country, and the means to keep it that way. It would be a tragedy if for whatever reason that changed.

Edited December 1, 2009 by MNcrittergittr

[Ravin R10 man]

Well, we are NOT shooting fawns before season starts..so you tell me just what is eating them all up then??

Bears and Wolves are!... PLAIN AND SIMPLE

No fawns=decreased herd

Our deer herd in Northern WI is down over 50% from just two years ago, we did not shoot them off, infact we had record kills back to back before 2000.....it didnt even phase the deer numbers! UNTIL

the bear population sky rocketed along with the wolves!

[camoman1]

Until the dnr can learn to accurately count deer, wolves and bears, Im afraid the future doesnt look real promising. And until the wolves are no longer Federally protected, there isnt much we can do about them. The wolves and bears maybe arent the root cause of the low deer numbers..but they sure arent helping anything.

If/when the wolf population control gets handed back over to the state, I hope they have the same knee-jerk reaction they did when they thought the deer population was way over goal. The dnr admits that the wolf population is over goal, so I would expect them to take the same measures to bring them back to the 'population goal', as they are for all the deer they imagine are out there.

Earn-a-deer, shoot a wolf, (bear or coyote) and get a deer tag until the wolf population is back down to what they had set up when they brought that vermin back to WI...:D:smoke:

Dont get me wrong, Im not fully against the wolves being here. The population just needs to be controlled. I understand that MN has 3000 wolves and it doesnt affect the deer numbers much. But..MN is bigger than WI, and the majority of the wolves in WI are packed into the top 3rd of the state.

[c_lou]

While I agree with just about everybody here and I too believe that DNR has botched up the deer herd, I saw more deer this year in the first hour than I did all last year. I also saw deer every day I hunted, mostly smaller bucks though. I didn't shoot anything because I really didn't need the meat this year. My BIL got a nice one bowhunting and my FIL shot a nice one gun hunting. That means I have all the meat I need, so my bullets got reserved for only the big one(which I preceeded to miss on Friday, but that's another story).

I don't think a longer season is what this state needs either. What good is a longer season if there aren't any deer? There was a good Letter to the Editor in Monday's Leader Telegram. It was a hunter from down my way that basically said the same thing we are all talking about. However, he went one step further and said what's the point of introducing a young person to hunting if they aren't going to not see deer. In today's gotta have it now world, you think a 10 year old kid is going to sit for 4 hours just to see nothing? Or walk next to Dad along a field ditch? To keep kids interested in anything, they have to feel like they are getting something out of it. Same goes for fishing no way I take my 8 year old Muskie or Walleye fishing, but spring crappies and bluegills, sign us up.

We need a few years of what the season used to be. Buck only and you had to apply for a doe tag. Also I think going back to opening weekend shotgun only would help, but that may be just a little to retro.

[MNcrittergittr]

Well, we are NOT shooting fawns before season starts..so you tell me just what is eating them all up then??

Bears and Wolves are!... PLAIN AND SIMPLE

No fawns=decreased herd

Our deer herd in Northern WI is down over 50% from just two years ago, we did not shoot them off, infact we had record kills back to back before 2000.....it didnt even phase the deer numbers! UNTIL

the bear population sky rocketed along with the wolves!

I hear ya man....Like I said, I'm not saying that they aren't an issue at all. In concentrated areas I understand that they are a bigger issue for people. Numbers are down all over, what is your explaination for the drop in areas without wolves? If wolves or anything else were/are having an adverse effect on deer or other populations, I fully support controlling their numbers and fully support the best all around solution whatever that may be (wolf culling, deer restrictions, you name it...). But at the same time, you can't freak out any and everytime a deer dies from anything else besides a hunter. It's the way it is, the way the wild works, predation, winter kills, VEHICLES...and you can't have record kills forever without noticing an effect on the heard. Look man, I'm not here to argue with you. I was just presenting another take on the situation. Either way...good luck in the deer woods to ya!

Edited December 1, 2009 by MNcrittergittr