Wisconsin Deer (mis)Management)

[Jorden]

While I agree with just about everybody here and I too believe that DNR has botched up the deer herd, I saw more deer this year in the first hour than I did all last year. I also saw deer every day I hunted, mostly smaller bucks though. I didn't shoot anything because I really didn't need the meat this year. My BIL got a nice one bowhunting and my FIL shot a nice one gun hunting. That means I have all the meat I need, so my bullets got reserved for only the big one(which I preceeded to miss on Friday, but that's another story).

I don't think a longer season is what this state needs either. What good is a longer season if there aren't any deer? There was a good Letter to the Editor in Monday's Leader Telegram. It was a hunter from down my way that basically said the same thing we are all talking about. However, he went one step further and said what's the point of introducing a young person to hunting if they aren't going to not see deer. In today's gotta have it now world, you think a 10 year old kid is going to sit for 4 hours just to see nothing? Or walk next to Dad along a field ditch? To keep kids interested in anything, they have to feel like they are getting something out of it. Same goes for fishing no way I take my 8 year old Muskie or Walleye fishing, but spring crappies and bluegills, sign us up.

We need a few years of what the season used to be. Buck only and you had to apply for a doe tag. Also I think going back to opening weekend shotgun only would help, but that may be just a little to retro.

Consider yourself lucky...I sat 8 of the 9 days and saw three deer, all on opening day. My brother saw one deer. The dnr is just destroying our hunting now but are destroying it for the future. I can tell you the my first year of hunting I hunted in the same stand every night and saw deer every night. I even had a count going of how many consecutive times I could sit in that stand and see deer...it spanned over two seasons. Now we had to take that stand down because we dont even see deer there anymore. I can tell you that if I went out that first year and didnt see anything like I have the last few years, there is no way I would be hunting now.

I also agree with you about the shotguns. I am not a big fan of rifle season. I would not mind at all if wisconsin went to strictly shotgun and muzzleloader like Iowa and Illinois. I also would like to see bucks only with people being able to apply for doe tags to see the herd rebuild but I dont think it will happen.

I hear ya man....Like I said, I'm not saying that they aren't an issue at all. In concentrated areas I understand that they are a bigger issue for people. If wolves or anything else were/are having an adverse effect on deer or other populations, I fully support controlling their numbers and fully support the best all around solution whatever that may be (wolf culling, deer restrictions, you name it...). But at the same time, you can't freak out any and everytime a deer dies from anything else besides a hunter. It's the way it is, the way the wild works, predation, winter kills, VEHICLES...and you can't have record kills forever without noticing an effect on the heard. Look man, I'm not here to argue with you. I was just presenting another take on the situation. Either way...good luck in the deer woods to ya!

Those things alone do not decimate the deer herd, its all part of life in the woods. But when you combine growing bear and wolf numbers and every increasingly harsh winters and the dnr still hands out unlimited antlerless tags, that is the recipe for herd eradication, which is exactly the dnrs goal.

[MNcrittergittr]

Ok...I'm going to make one more comment about this, then I'm done, because it's kind of a crap shoot....

Both people in MN and WI recognize that something is definitely happening and many are not happy with it. I agree that it is because of a combination of things. People always want something to blame. If it was too warm or cold, they blame the weather, if wolf numbers are up, they blame predators. I think that as hunters we of all people should be able to appreciate and understand nature. I guess it doesn't bother me that yes wolves kill and eat deer. Would it bother me if they were decimating the heard? Of course it would! But I don't believe that predation from wolves is responsible for the drops we are seeing. There is a life cycle in the wild that I think more people need to understand, it's nature, its the way things are and should be! How many deer die from vehicles every year? A LOT, does it make sense to get rid of vehicles to protect the deer? Of course not! Whatever it is, people VERY RARELY want to accept blame for themselves, hunters and dnr included!

I agree with what a lot of people have commented on. I think in some areas yes, predation is a problem that needs to be addressed and I can only imagine how frustrating that can be! In other areas hunters with the "stack em like cord wood just cuz we can!" mentality is an issue, in other areas too liberal of limits. Over all I think the dnr mismanaged a lot of things. For a COMBINED recipe for what we are dealing with now. Overall, I really think the responsibility falls on the dnr for more reasons than one. The dnr has mismanaged and overlooked so many things relating to the moose heard in Minnesota it's sick! But year after year they are putting plans together to further decrease deer numbers wherever they can.

No matter what the factors are, wolves, limits etc, its the dnr's job to account for these things. There are some differences of opinions here but we all love the outdoors and deer hunting, that much I know we can agree on. MN and WI are beautiful and have what it takes to support great deer hunting today and for the future. There is no reason we should even be discussing this mismanagement really. So lets do all we can, make eductated, ethical, responsible decisions and hope for the best. Good luck out there guys!

Edited December 1, 2009 by MNcrittergittr

[Wisconsinboy]

I really hope that someone from the WDNR reads this. I saw 8 deer total between bow and gun season, 5 of which i saw on opening day of gun season.

The number of deer killed during the 9 day gun hunt was just less then 200K. The lowest number since like 1981 or something like that. How in the world can the DNR say that there are over a million deer around?? Plus the number of tags sold was average...upper 600 thousand??

I also heard the other day that a pack of 3 wolves can kill up to 100 deer a year!!! That is ALOT of deer.

i agree on boycotting the season next year. its almost not even worth going out anymore. it should go back to how it used to be. BUCK only with a draw for a doe tag. In unit 57B where i hunt...this year was not a earn a buck or a herd control but they still give us the option to buy a doe tag!?!? they should not give that option. AHHHH

Yes i am a little upset as well!!

[joeaveragehunter]

This must be a joke. My TRUSTED wisconsin dnr has told me that their are 1.7 milion deer in the great state of wisconsin. The herd is too high and must be controlled. Their are very few wolves and not that many bears.

-Just cause you fly over three alfalfa fields in the southwest part of the state doesn't mean their are deer everywhere.

-In the north, we went from earn a buck to limited doe tags over the counter in two years

-The wolves are out of control...relatives of mine have nine wolves on one camera pic.

-They under estimated the bear population by fifty percent a year ago. They stated 33,000 and it was almost 70,000.

Between poachers, wolves, bears, and the dnr, I get so frustrated I wanna scream. Looks like I will have to attend a dnr spring meeting this year.

[Jorden]

I was reading in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel today were Sen. Russ Decker was calling that all the people in charge of big game management at the DNR be fired.

I will say this about hunting by me the last two years. While I believe the DNR has really screwed up the hunting in our state, I have seen more bucks and more bigger bucks the last two seasons than I have ever before. Granted I havent seen any does so when the rut comes around all the bucks leave. The one problem with going to bucks only is that people are going to shoot smaller and younger bucks which leaves a lot less mature bucks around unless you have the fortune of hunting in on and around a strict QDM area. Me personally, I would not mind at some sort of antler restrictions that if they did go to buck only tags, the younger ones would have at least some chance to grow up.

[Jorden]

I was reading in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel today were Sen. Russ Decker was calling that all the people in charge of big game management at the DNR be fired.

I will say this about hunting by me the last two years. While I believe the DNR has really screwed up the hunting in our state, I have seen more bucks and more bigger bucks the last two seasons than I have ever before. Granted I havent seen any does so when the rut comes around all the bucks leave. The one problem with going to bucks only is that people are going to shoot smaller and younger bucks which leaves a lot less mature bucks around unless you have the fortune of hunting in on and around a strict QDM area. Me personally, I would not mind at some sort of antler restrictions that if they did go to buck only tags, the younger ones would have at least some chance to grow up.

[Chrud]

My brother and I hunt in Unit 43. There were zero antlerless tags available in that zone this year. Here is a copy of something I posted on another forum.

This was in response to a member saying:

deer numbers are down...but not to the catastophic levels the local folks make it seem

My response:

I do agree with that, even in our area. While 20% to 40% below the goal seems like a lot, I certainly would not call it catastrophic. My brother and I hunt about 155 acres, and the best bedding areas are on the neighboring properties. That said, on our trail cameras this year we had at least 12 to 15 different bucks, including 5 or 6 that were shooters. Of those bucks, I managed to see 4 of them in daylight. As far as the does, we have only seen about 2 or 3 adult does this year, on camera or while hunting. So I can understand why the DNR didn't have any available antlerless tags in our zone this year.

My next statement was in response to:

Before folks(folks meaning hunters across the state) go pointing fingers at the DNR for the low deer numbers, they need to take a step back and look in the mirror and look at who pulled the trigger on all those antlerless deer in the years past looking for that buck tag

My response:

I disagree with you on that. Reason being our zone has never been an EAB zone. I've been hunting 43 since 2004 and it might have been an "EAB Watch" zone one year and that has been it. There has never been an abundance of shooting in our area during gun season, and I don't think any of the neighbors bow hunt. We had quite a few does last year, so I'm not sure why this year there is such a sudden drop in the doe population. Well, I do have an opinion, but the DNR wouldn't listen to it.

Now for the rest of my observations for Unit 43...

The early archery season was fine. Both my brother and I saw quite a few deer, about the same or maybe more than last year. The daylight activity really shut down and the rut seemed pretty non-existent this year, and I think a lot of that has to do with the 50 and 60 degree temperatures we had from the first of November all the way into the gun season. I'm sure most of the rutting activity was at night. I think the lack of does also had a huge factor in it. If I were to guess, I would say the buck-to-doe ratio in our area this year was probably 3-1 in favor of the bucks. Not a good sign.

The gun season was very slow. I did see a total of 7 deer, while hunting 4 1/2 days. Of those deer, 3 were the first night while walking out and the other 4 were while I hunting my food plot later in the week. All were does, so they were all off limits. My brother hunted a lot, every day I think. He only saw 3 deer, all of them while walking out.

I wouldn't be surprised if 43 is "buck only" during the gun season again next year.

[Chrud]

I will say this about hunting by me the last two years. While I believe the DNR has really screwed up the hunting in our state, I have seen more bucks and more bigger bucks the last two seasons than I have ever before.

I agree. In the last two seasons I've seen three really nice bucks in daylight, and was able to put an arrow through one of them. On our Cuddebacks this year, my brother and I have five or six ligament shooter bucks. In the past, one or two was something to get pretty pumped up about.

Granted I havent seen any does so when the rut comes around all the bucks leave.

Agreed.

The one problem with going to bucks only is that people are going to shoot smaller and younger bucks which leaves a lot less mature bucks around unless you have the fortune of hunting in on and around a strict QDM area.

I agree, and I'm one that did shoot a small buck this year. With the hot temperatures for the first three weeks of November, plus the lack of does, it wasn't good. Because of the lack of does, I wasn't able to get one early in the archery season, and for the reasons I just said, I did shoot a small buck with my bow for meat. And since we were going to be "buck only" during gun season, I knew my chances at any deer in the next few weeks were going to be few and far between. My standards went out the window this year.

Me personally, I would not mind at some sort of antler restrictions that if they did go to buck only tags, the younger ones would have at least some chance to grow up.

Agreed, even though my buck would have broke that rule this year.

[gzilla45]

I just read the article about Russ Decker calling for the firing of all the DNR folks who deal with whitetails. He hunts just down the road from where I do and I'm guessing based on the seasons we have had the last few years that they have had similar ones. I hope he is doing this for the right reasons and not something to get re-elected.

[hdhiii]

In my part of the state "Portage County" myself including all my friends had no problem with shooting deer during the bow and gun season. Sorry to hear that in your neck of the woods its not so good. Hopefully next year it willbe better. Best of luck during your next hunt!!

[hunterbobb]

Ok I agree with just about everything everyone has said.

#1 The DNR has overestimated the deer herd. For those of you that missed it the DNR quietly admitted they have over estimated the heard.

#2 Too many doe tags have lead to a reduction in the herd.

#3 Wolves and Bears have been eating fawns.

However there are two situations that in my opinion have influenced the deer herd even more than the subjects already addressed.

#1 The Coyote population is out of control. A friend of mine has a picture on a trail cam of a coyote eating a fawn. Plus almost everywhere I go in the state. North to South. You can hear coyotes howling at night.

#2 Heavy hunting pressure on does has created a super smart breed of doe. They have learned to be as shy as big bucks.

:gun2:

[Jorden]

Maybe the DNR is starting to listen after all. They decided to withdraw the 16-day gun season proposal for next year. Maybe the pressure from the legislators along with the hundreds of thousands of angry hunters is starting to get to them.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/78549567.html

[camoman1]

There is also talk of cancelling the anterless 4 day gun hunt for this weekend. I dont think it will happen though.

I still consider myself very lucky to have access to an area that hasnt had the deer population destroyed for one reason or another. The property I hunt becomes a 'sanctuary' during and after gun season. I sat in a stand last night just for fun and saw 12 deer all does and fawns.

[gzilla45]

I'm glad to see they decided to table the 16 day hunt for next year. It would be nice if they cancelled the hunt this weekend but I think mother nature is going to keep a lot of people out of the woods. We are looking at a lot of snow Tues-Wed and then bitterly cold temps over the weekend.