What caliber is better for LR target/ varmint use?

[bowhuntMN]

I want to buy a rifle that i can use for long-range target shooting and possibly varmint hunting. I've been looking at the Remington 700 SPS Varmint and Tactical models. The Varmint comes in a variety of chamberings including .223 and the tactical model comes in either .223. or .308. I like that a .223 is very easy to shoot and has tremendous speed but also like the larger bullet with the .308 even if its not a varmint load. So it boils down to which caliber is a better match for me? I will probably shoot this more often at long range targets than i will varmint or predators but would like it to double as a hunting rifle for fox, coyotes, etc. I'll also check the ballistics tables for these calibers before making a decision. Here's the links for the two 700 models:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_SPS_varmint.asp

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/premier_dealer_exclusives/model_700_SPS.asp

Let me know what you think! Thanks

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

What do you mean by "long range"? 300 yards? 400 yards? For those the 223 will work. If you're talking about 500 yards + you'll be better off with a larger caliber that shoots a heavier bullet like the 308.

If you want to stick with a 22 caliber round but still want to shoot over 400 yards, you might want to look at a Model 700 Varmint SF in 220 Swift. The Swift is still the king of the 22 centerfires in my book.

[Jeramie]

I agree, if youre looking at shooting cheap and wont shoot over say 300-400 yards I would go with the .223 too. Great round, cheap to shoot, and will kill yotes at that range.

Id also consider

.220 swift

.22-250

.243

All are great long range rounds for small game and varmint.

[doubleA]

The two rifles you picked can both work but they are a bit different. The SPS Varmints have a 26 inch barrels while the tactical models have 20 inchers. While on the subject of barrels, in both models in 308 Win. the twist is the same 1:12. They will shoot most bullets from 110's to 180's well.

The .223 chambering differs a bit. In the SPS varmint the twist is 1:12, so it's going to do well with 40-60gr bullets. The SPS tactical uses a faster twist of 1:9 and will shoot/stabilize the heavier 69-75gr pills better which by the way will do better at the longer distances.

The stocks on them? Well neither are great by any stretch of the imagination. The varmint uses a really cheap plastic one and it's not free floated. The Tactical comes with a Houge that uses pillar bedding.

With the calibers, take your pick. Both can get to 800 yards without alot of trouble and even a 1000 yards is reality with the right bullets. Of course the 308 is going to have more energy while the 223 will be more economical to shoot.

I bought a sps v 308 Win last year and have been happy with it. Right out of the box it shot very well even with the factory stock. I have since cut the barrel back and recrowned, added an AICS chasis and painted it.

All of these will shoot, the Remington is on the bottom.

[bowhuntMN]

yup i've shot a 243 many times in the past since its what i use for deer hunting but would like something different in a target/varmint rifle. As for 22 centerfire rifles, i have easy access to a 22-250 that my dad owns so i will probably spend a day at the range with him, and my cousin just recently purchased a 223 so i will take a few shots with that as well. I really just need to decide whether or not i'm going to use this rifle for predator hunting too since the .308 is a little big for coyotes, but i like the down range power that a larger bullet like the .308 would have (since after all, aren't all guys power junkies? :gunsmilie:) however i could shoot a 223 all day where i might get tired of shooting the 308 after a while even though i'm used to the 308 casing since ive shot a 243 so many times.

As you can tell i'm having a lot of trouble deciding and talking in circles, so i might have to take a trip to the gun shop and ask those guys about it and get their opinion too.

P.S.: By "long range"i mean i'd like to shoot as far as possible with a gun thats as easy to shoot as possible. if that makes any sense...

[bowhuntMN]

  doubleA said:

The two rifles you picked can both work but they are a bit different. The SPS Varmints have a 26 inch barrels while the tactical models have 20 inchers. While on the subject of barrels, in both models in 308 Win. the twist is the same 1:12. They will shoot most bullets from 110's to 180's well.

The .223 chambering differs a bit. In the SPS varmint the twist is 1:12, so it's going to do well with 40-60gr bullets. The SPS tactical uses a faster twist of 1:9 and will shoot/stabilize the heavier 69-75gr pills better which by the way will do better at the longer distances.

The stocks on them? Well neither are great by any stretch of the imagination. The varmint uses a really cheap plastic one and it's not free floated. The Tactical comes with a Houge that uses pillar bedding.

With the calibers, take your pick. Both can get to 800 yards without alot of trouble and even a 1000 yards is reality with the right bullets. Of course the 308 is going to have more energy while the 223 will be more economical to shoot.

I bought a sps v 308 Win last year and have been happy with it. Right out of the box it shot very well even with the factory stock. I have since cut the barrel back and recrowned, added an AICS chasis and painted it.

All of these will shoot, the Remington is on the bottom.

As far as the rifles go, i'm favoring the tactical one, even though i'm not a big fan of the 20"barrel. I could always replace it with a heavy or fluted barrel though.

When you said the 69-75gr bullets are those still .223 rounds? What are the ballistics on a bullet like that and what do you think its range is? You probably wouldn't find too many of those rounds at the store, do you have to reload those yourself?

You really know what youre talking about and since i'm new to a lot of this long range shooting i'm sorry if i bug you with questions.

[wtnhunt]

  bowhuntMN said:

When you said the 69-75gr bullets are those still .223 rounds? What are the ballistics on a bullet like that and what do you think its range is? You probably wouldn't find too many of those rounds at the store, do you have to reload those yourself?

Don't reload myself yet, but there are heavier factory loads available for the .223, there are factory loads available in 69 and 77 grain with sierra match king boat tail hollow points.

I have shot some 69 grain rounds through my .223 and they do not hold quite as tight a group as the 55 grain rounds.

[bowhuntMN]

  wtnhunt said:

Don't reload myself yet, but there are heavier factory loads available for the .223, there are factory loads available in 69 and 77 grain with sierra match king boat tail hollow points.

I have shot some 69 grain rounds through my .223 and they do not hold quite as tight a group as the 55 grain rounds.

i see. what distance have you shot those at? do you like the 55 grain rounds for .223 best?

[wtnhunt]

  bowhuntMN said:

i see. what distance have you shot those at? do you like the 55 grain rounds for .223 best?

My gun seems to really like the 55 grain soft points. Target shooting have gotten out to 200, have killed a yote close to that with it. Would like to push out further, may see if I can find a place on our property for some 300 yard targets this spring.

[DocMort]

If you want a true long range performer and a 22 cal you have to either go with the 220 or the 22-250. As far as 308 goes you can get a 260 rem for long range. Just got one last year and haven't really shot it that much but dad just bought one in the ar platform and loves it.

[bowhuntMN]

I think a friend of mine has a 220 swift so i'll maybe try that out as well.

But back to the .308's, has anyone shot them over, let's say, 500 yards? how is the trajectory on this shot with a .308 compared to other typical long-range calibers? (long range meaning rifles typically used for shots >300yards)

I'm starting to lean with a .308, i'd like having more energy down-range and i feel confident knowing that the military uses it in their long-range marksman rifles. I figured if the military uses it, its gotta be one good caliber for long range shooting. But on the other hand, they're using it for combat purposes and i'm not going to use my gun for anything like that so i'm still having some trouble deciding.

Also, i really don't have the money for a new rifle setup and don't plan on having it until this summer at the earliest so i have plenty of time to think about it, i just want to have the decision made so when i do get the money i can make the purchase. But who knows...i might find in a couple months that this isn't something i'm ready to get into yet and not even buy a new gun. That seems to happen to me a lot, but when it comes to guns i always think everything through and take my time making a decision.

[WaCoyote]

For 500 plus go with a 243 and above. They will kill a yote at those distances. BUT, quit obsessing over this long range coyote stuff. I shoot a LOT of coyotes, very rarely do I shoot one past 300 yards. Thats a long long ways on a coyote. I hunt in wheat fields where you can see forever but rarely do i ever shoot past 300 yards. I do not mean to be disrespectfull here, but if you really can't decide between a .223 and a .308 for loooong range coyote work your probably not experienced enough to make that shot with either rifle. If you want to have a lot of fun, nail down song dogs with authority, and shoot all day without going broke the choice is simple. .223 If you want a little more poop step up to a 22-250, if you want even more go with 220 swift.

If your still obsessing on this long range business you need to look into a .260, 6.5 swede, or a 6.5 creedmore. The 6.5's are all the rage right now for target shooters.

[toddyboman]

  Texan_Til_I_Die said:

What do you mean by "long range"? 300 yards? 400 yards? For those the 223 will work. If you're talking about 500 yards + you'll be better off with a larger caliber that shoots a heavier bullet like the 308.

Agreed!!

I have a rem 700 vs in a 223 it has the hs precision stock. It's a bench gun. I have shot and killed prairie dogs in S.Dakota with it out to 500 and 600 yards. However it was a pretty good challenge. The gun can do it.......but the problem was the wind......a 55 grain bullet at those distance.....the bullet was really moving..

I have also shot prairie dogs at 500 to 800 yards with a 25.06, 6mm and 308. Those bigger bullets just cut the wind MUCH better at longer ranges.

I started shooting this "longer" range stuff because locally we had an egg shoot. At distance from 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards. Again my 223 can do those shots all day with no wind.....add wind everything changes. I won the 300 and 400 the last time we did it. I attempted the 500 many times......but I could not beat my dad at 500.......He was shooting a 308 on that windy day and I couldn't dope the wind enough with my 55 grain bullet..........

Shooting those longer ranges is a TON of fun! Have fun and good luck in your decision!:cool2:

[doubleA]

Nothing against a 55gr bullet but it's hardly a long range bullet , the BC just isnt there . Bullets such as 68,69,75,77,80,90 grains with their high BC's will do better than any 55gr when stretching the distance.

Will they have blazing speed? no They will not but they buck the wind and shoot flatter at distance. Even the mighty 220 swift and 22-250 using the standard 1-12-14 twist shooting 55gr pills would do way better with a faster 1-8 or 1-9 using a 75-80 grain bullet.

[redkneck]

Has anyone shot the .243 wssm? I thought it was going to be a big seller, esp for the kind of long ranges your talking about, but then I read somewhere there were some problems with barrel wear.

[bowhuntMN]

  toddyboman said:

Agreed!!

I have a rem 700 vs in a 223 it has the hs precision stock. It's a bench gun. I have shot and killed prairie dogs in S.Dakota with it out to 500 and 600 yards. However it was a pretty good challenge. The gun can do it.......but the problem was the wind......a 55 grain bullet at those distance.....the bullet was really moving..

I have also shot prairie dogs at 500 to 800 yards with a 25.06, 6mm and 308. Those bigger bullets just cut the wind MUCH better at longer ranges.

I started shooting this "longer" range stuff because locally we had an egg shoot. At distance from 200, 300, 400, and 500 yards. Again my 223 can do those shots all day with no wind.....add wind everything changes. I won the 300 and 400 the last time we did it. I attempted the 500 many times......but I could not beat my dad at 500.......He was shooting a 308 on that windy day and I couldn't dope the wind enough with my 55 grain bullet..........

Shooting those longer ranges is a TON of fun! Have fun and good luck in your decision!:cool2:

Thanks! Right now i'm a jobless college student so i'm real short on money but will have a job on an ambulance crew this spring so hopefully i'll have the money for a new rifle this summer.

Also, you said you've used a .308 for prairie dogs at longer distances. Isn't a .308 bullet a little big for a prairie dog?

Edited December 5, 2009 by bowhuntMN

[toddyboman]

  bowhuntMN said:

Also, you said you've used a .308 for prairie dogs at longer distances. Isn't a .308 bullet a little big for a prairie dog?

When we went to S.Dakota to shoot prairie dogs we took.

.17, 22, 223, 22-250, 243, 25-06, 6mm, 308, 300 win mag.

Except for the 17 and 22 aLL where Remington 700 with bull barrels. Bench guns! Strictly set up for shooting longer distances.

When you go out there to shoot prairie dogs you do simple that Shoot. No recovery, no search nothing.....As harsh as this sounds its nothing more that an endless supply of live targets to blow up.

Shooting them a 100, 200 and even 300 yards quickly becomes easy and kinda boring. So in order to add some challenge you start extending your distances. When you start shooting further you very quickly see how the wind is the biggest factor in hitting and missing. So the bigger the bullet the more you can fight the wind. And secondly sitting in the sun blasting the bullets and pretty high speeds out of the gun the barrel tends to heat up....so we have to switch guns. So you shoot the 6 mm for a while then switch to the 308 then go to the 25.06 and so on.....

So to answer your question yup 308 is PLENTY big for a small prairie dog but when all your doing is shooting you might as well shoot anything and everything you have....cause its ALL a blast!!! :gun2:

[toddyboman]

  bowhuntMN said:

Also, you said you've used a .308 for prairie dogs at longer distances. Isn't a .308 bullet a little big for a prairie dog?

If I remember right the last time we(dad and I) went to S.Dakota to shoot prairie dogs we took:

(1)-.17, (3)-223, (2)-22-250, (1)-243, (1)-25-06,(1)- 6mm, (1)-308 and probably 3 to 4 thousand rounds of ammo.

Except for the .17 all where Remington 700 with bull barrels. Bench guns! Strictly set up for shooting longer distances.

When we go out there to shoot prairie dogs we do simple that Shoot. No recovery, no search, just a darn good time.....As harsh as this sounds shooting prairie dogs is nothing more that an endless supply of live targets to blow up.

Shooting them a 100, 200 and even 300 yards quickly becomes easy and kinda boring. So in order to add some challenge you start extending your distances. When you start shooting further you very quickly see how the wind is the biggest factor in hitting and missing. And the wind always blows in S. Dakota. So the bigger the bullet the more you can fight the wind. Secondly sitting in the sun blasting the bullets and pretty high speeds out of the gun the barrel tends to heat up....so we have to switch guns. So you shoot the 6 mm for a while then switch to the 308 then go to the 25.06 and so on.....

So to answer your question yup 308 is PLENTY big for a small prairie dog but when all your doing is shooting you might as well shoot anything and everything you have....cause its ALL a blast!!! :gun2:

[bowhuntMN]

  toddyboman said:

When we went to S.Dakota to shoot prairie dogs we took.

.17, 22, 223, 22-250, 243, 25-06, 6mm, 308, 300 win mag.

Except for the 17 and 22 aLL where Remington 700 with bull barrels. Bench guns! Strictly set up for shooting longer distances.

When you go out there to shoot prairie dogs you do simple that Shoot. No recovery, no search nothing.....As harsh as this sounds its nothing more that an endless supply of live targets to blow up.

Shooting them a 100, 200 and even 300 yards quickly becomes easy and kinda boring. So in order to add some challenge you start extending your distances. When you start shooting further you very quickly see how the wind is the biggest factor in hitting and missing. So the bigger the bullet the more you can fight the wind. And secondly sitting in the sun blasting the bullets and pretty high speeds out of the gun the barrel tends to heat up....so we have to switch guns. So you shoot the 6 mm for a while then switch to the 308 then go to the 25.06 and so on.....

So to answer your question yup 308 is PLENTY big for a small prairie dog but when all your doing is shooting you might as well shoot anything and everything you have....cause its ALL a blast!!! :gun2:

lol ya i know what you mean. i know a guy who goes out to south dakota to hunt prairie dogs too and he says you can get paid to shoot them since they are such a nuisance.