.22 Mag for CC?

[okiedog]

Also.....many of the autos have recoil springs stiff enough that gals may find them very hard to bring into battery ("rack the slide"). QUOTE]

I have seen this first hand as well with my G19. I have seen several women not able to pull the slide back "safely" on that gun.

[csualumni21000]

Explain your first hand experience. This topic seems outside of your lane.

[Strut10]

Explain your first hand experience. This topic seems outside of your lane.

I have a better idea:

Either you accept my opinion as valuable or you do not.

I am not about to type out the resume' pertaining to and about my CC handgun knowledge/experiences for someone I do not know and, quite frankly, am quickly tiring of.

Most men operate a semiautomatic pistol by holding the frame in their dominant hand, and reaching across their chest with the free hand and grabbing the slide to “rack” it back. This is an upper body strength intensive technique, pitting arm against arm, and a lot of smaller or older women can’t do it well with many pistols.

Massad Ayoob (ever hear of him?)

[csualumni21000]

Yes. Your lack of explanation of something you reference says much about you.

[Straight Shooter]

I don't know what bug has crawled up your behind, but I'd try and learn a little bit about communicating with people. Instead of out right calling them out on something you obviously have no clue of who they are or what they know.

[okiedog]

So you are saying that a person should shoot a semi even if they are physically unable to operate the slide?? wow... thats good sound advice right there.

[csualumni21000]

At my basic training we had over 300 women ages 21-50+ of all body types but very overweight and every single one could take apart and work a 92 after instruction.My 65 year old mother can work an auto.I have never seen a woman not be able to work a semi after instruction. I do not like it when men say women should carry a certain firearm because of their sex alone. A revolver is more likely to have problems in a women's purse than most semis. The revolver has more open spaces for crap to get in and stop moving parts. A small revolver sucks to shoot. If the woman cannot rack the slide then she should go revolver but that is not the issue here. The origional post stated recoil to be the only problem. Take a woman into a gun store and the usual gun store commando will recommend a lightweight revolver that kicks like heck and has a pink grip.

Edited January 3, 2010 by csualumni21000

[m gardner]

My wife and I are getting our CC permit the first of the year. Im going with a Taurus UL chambered in .357 but im carrying .38 +P rounds.

I was going to buy my wife the Charter arms Pink Lady in .38spcl but she is worried about the .38. My wife isnt against guns at all but she doesnt care for them. She is only carrying one out of necessity. Things are just too bad these days.

From all I've seen and heard in my life a handgun is poor protection at best. It is a last desperate act to defend yourself. Seeing that your wife isn't exactly a gun nut tends to make me think she won't practice enough to become proficient enough to use it effectively in a fight. Which is bad. I would suggest a Tazer or Stun Gun type of weapon which will take care of things. Pepper spray too. If you are set on the idea of a 22 Mag. she needs to practice and learn to shoot for and hit the head. My wife and I shoot lots and one thing she still needs to learn is how to hit things while doing stuff like running for her life. Standing in front of a static target shooting just doesn't simulate a fight. This isn't a small life choice out of necessity.

Mark

[johnf]

Handgun Designs

November 13, 2009 By: Jeff Mau

Often times I hear people say that you should select a gun that “feels the best to you. Go to the range and shoot a bunch of guns and buy the one you like.” This is lousy advice, and often results in new shooters making poor purchases. Again equipment should be selected based on the criteria for YOUR mission (private citizen, concealed carry, LE duty, military, etc) and then evaluated based on your tactics and skills. If you have no tactics and skills then you have no reference point to make an informed decision. If your tactics and skills suck, then your equipment selection will likely suck.

Body shape and size are factors for weapon selection. The biggest variation is hand size. For smaller handed shooters, single stack magazine feed handguns can be an advantage. Realistically, however, most anyone can learn to shoot any gun well. Don’t get caught up in the subjective feel of the gun.

One of the most important criteria for selecting a firearm for self defense is reliability. The gun needs to go bang every time. For defensive purposes, guns should only be considered if the platform has seen years of use and millions of rounds down range. I have no interest in being a guinea pig. The latest gun design might be cool to own, but it has no business out on the street until someone else has verified it with a very large sample and lots of rounds. This generally restricts our selection to guns that have been issued to large government organizations.

Additionally, firearms that deviate from their original manufacture design should be avoided. The biggest problem area is when manufacturers change the cartridge without redesigning the entire platform. For example, Glock originally designed the small frame size only for 9mm. With American law enforcement moving to .40 S&W as a duty round, Glock introduced the smaller frame size in .40 S&W. The result is a high pressure cartridge being fired out of a gun designed for the lower pressure 9mm. Additionally, to accommodate the larger cartridge, the slide, barrel, and chamber mass was reduced. The result is a less reliable weapon system, more parts breakage, and a shorter life cycle.

There are very few handgun weapon systems originally designed around something other than 9mm or .45 ACP cartridges. And even fewer that have seen extended use by large organizations.

Some of the platforms to consider (all in 9mm) are: Glock 17, Glock 19, Glock 34, Beretta 92FS, Sig 226, Sig228, Sig229, Browning Hi-Power, most of the H&K handguns, and the S&W M&P9

There are probably more, and I am sure I left your favorite gun off the above list. However, in our cumulative experience seeing hundreds of guns every year with hundreds of thousands of rounds down range every year, these are the guns we see with the least problems.

Along with reliability, the ability to deliver fast accurate hits to your target is crucial to surviving a violent confrontation. With experienced skilled shooters and novice shooters alike, we see students shoot faster and more accurate with 9mm than any other defensive cartridge. It is quite common for a student to come to class with a .40 caliber Glock, during the course they borrow a Glock 19 and quickly learn the error in their ways. The .40 caliber Glock gets sold shortly thereafter and replaced with a Glock 19.

May want to look at the Glock 26, my wife loves her's. You might also want to look at the springfield subcompact.

[Jeramie]

Unless your wife is used to shooting...I wouldn't recommend any semi-auto for a protection gun. Revolvers are safer and easier to make go bang in an all ready scary situation. The gun is no good if she's not 100% on using it correctly.

The whole reason a wheel gun is what we are looking at.

[Jeramie]

Yes. Your lack of explanation of something you reference says much about you.

Actually, there is a reason he was picked to Moderate firearms rooms. If the good folks at Realtree think he is good enough I'd bet he has enough experience to back up his statements.

There are also factors that haven’t been brought into play in this "Discussion". The main one being that if something a person is not interested in has the added restraint of complication they typically wont follow through or dedicate themselves to using or learning whatever it may be. A wheel gun is very simple and IMHO far more effective in my wife's hands.

Is my wife intelligent enough to fire a semi-auto? She graduated from a private college with honors, she had full rides to colleges in three states, National Merit Scholar, Dang near a photographic memory, and can pretty much do trig in her head... Yeah, she can run a semi-auto.

That being said, I know my wife better than you will ever know her csualumni and I know what is best for her in terms of a firearm. While your recommendation is appreciated your attacking respected members of this forum is not, especially when your boastful spouting and calling out of senior members of this forum has no base.

[m gardner]

Jeramie; I hope I don't insult you but intelligence usually doesn't come into play in a violent confrontation. Training does. It has been proven that you will resort to your lowest level of training when confronted with a shooting situation. Make sure you train properly so that drawing and shooting are automatic. It takes 3000 repetions to make somthing a natural act. Get Snap Caps and do lots of dry fire drills and shoot lots just like you would in a fight. Doing stuff like dumping empties into your hand and putting them into your pocket so you don't need to pick them up is exactly what you will do in a fight and may cost you. Shoot some entry level IDPA if you can find it in your area or play golf.:DMark

[Jeramie]

Jeramie; I hope I don't insult you but intelligence usually doesn't come into play in a violent confrontation. Training does. It has been proven that you will resort to your lowest level of training when confronted with a shooting situation. Make sure you train properly so that drawing and shooting are automatic. It takes 3000 repetions to make somthing a natural act. Get Snap Caps and do lots of dry fire drills and shoot lots just like you would in a fight. Doing stuff like dumping empties into your hand and putting them into your pocket so you don't need to pick them up is exactly what you will do in a fight and may cost you. Shoot some entry level IDPA if you can find it in your area or play golf.

Mark

Not insulting at all... I understand 100%. I load countless rounds a year and squeeze the trigger until they are just empty brass. I also have my bow in my hand at any given chance. I understand that practice makes perfect.

In all reality when I pick something up I want to learn about every aspect of it. Its in my nature. My wife is a little different. She will be willing to learn but she will want to keep it simple because she really isnt into guns. Err go, she will be willing to learn to shoot, hold, load, etc but she will care very little about the mechanics of a gun. As long as it works she will be content (much like her van). That is the biggest reason I have chose the wheel gun. She will shoot with me and become efficient but when it comes to "If it jams, or doesnt load the next round, etc." (breaking down the mechanics) she will lose interest pretty fast.

My response was mostly geared more toward this…..

The reasoning behind not recommending a semi auto to a woman is stupid. If the woman can drive a car she is probably smart enough to be taught how to use a semi auto. If she is not able to figure out how to run a semi she probably should not have a gun.

Its not about the intelligence, more the desire to learn the mechanics of the weapon. She just wants to know if she aims and pulls the trigger it will operate.

[m gardner]

OOOH! I didn't realize the "women are stupid" thing had been posted. WOW! Some of the best shots I've trained were women. They seemed to learn quicker too because they listened. No testosterone to stand in the way of it all. I had one lady that picked my S&W 45 ACP revolver to shoot first after all the class instruction. I was reluctant to let her because she'd never fired a handgun before. She put two center of the black and one 1/2 inch low at 15 meters. She smiled and said "Hows that?". Her husband just grinned at me.

Your wife will do fine from the sounds of things.

Mark

[Jeramie]

OOOH! I didn't realize the "women are stupid" thing had been posted. WOW! Some of the best shots I've trained were women.

You just described my Mom. Mom hunted a lot when we were kids and she is a crack shot. She can take a .22lr rifle and stack them with any man out there, or at least she could before her eyes got old.

They seemed to learn quicker too because they listened. No testosterone to stand in the way of it all.

You just said a mouthfull right there!

I agree 100%. My brother-in-law actually said the same thing about welders. The men had tacked around farms and such and "already knew how to weld." They in fact didnt know a thing about welding.

Looks like another strike against us guys...

[DocMort]

If it were me choosing my girl I would choose the wheel 38 all day long. If I was carrying it it would be an XDM 45 acp. Been in the area and been to close to people shot with a 9mm and they not go down.

CSU your really pushing some buttons and really pushing that Glock. Its not your choice and he asked about recommendations for a caliber not type of pistol. I personally can't stand glocks.

[Grady269]

I have to say I am on the side of M. Gardner and I think he gives good advice. There is a lot of liability associated with a carry gun. To me you have to consider and understand the law related to self defense. There is a big difference between what flies for protection in your home and what flies in public. I have a CCW as well as my wife but "rarely" do I ever carry a handgun. I do however carry a stun gun and mace. If I mace some dirt bag it is not going to be a big deal. What a lot of people fail to consider is that when you carry a gun you take on the responsibility of possibly having to use that gun. What happens when you use it? You better know you are in the right before you pull the trigger and you better have plenty of money for legal fee's handy.

[coles]

I sell guns at a sporting goods store and everyday we have men and their wives come in and look at handguns for protection. We always ask how much experience they have shooting. If they dont have much experience we show them to the revolvers. Revolvers dont jam and dont have to be racked when they are needed. All the women has to do is get it in her hands and pull the trigger. I dont treat it as an intellegence thing or a strenght thing. Its just easier to use. Everyone has a great opinion and great ideas on here. But I would say a Taurus or Smith in 38 would be great for her. Maybe try to find someone with a bunch of different handguns for her to try and see what she likes the best and what is easiest and quickest for her to use. The store i work at has an annual "shoot" where any one can go out to the range and for a couple dollars can shoot any gun there from handguns to shotguns and rifles. Maybe you can find something like that. I would feel more confident giving my girlfriend a revolver for protection. But noone can make the decision for you. Thats up to you and your wife and whatever works best for you.

[BuckStopsHere]

I have used a 22 mag for a ccw and I felt comfortable with it. I have used it to do alot of hunting and it drops em every time .

[DocMort]

I have used a 22 mag for a ccw and I felt comfortable with it. I have used it to do alot of hunting and it drops em every time .

Drops what every time? Ever tried to shoot when your assailent is shooting back? It gets a little hairy trust me. I would much rather make a marginal hit with a 38 +p than a 22 wmr. Have seen peopel take more than one 9mm and still keep coming so...

[JJL]

Unless you're carrying a 460 or 500, BANG doesn't stop much.

BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG-BANG ........ will stop most everything.

Mrs. JJL has one of these in her purse and is very effective with it. 13 rounds and will use them all if threatened. Just carrying doesn't protect squat................one MUST know how to use it and be good at it.

Berretta PX4 Storm sub-compact 9mm........................sweet.

[johnf]

The storm does carry 2 more than the Glock 26, but it is significantly bulkier. It is a very good gun though.