Long shots?

[SonnyThomas]

On another site someone Posted of deer taken at extreme yardages, 80 and 90 yards and noted they were of the 165 and 190 class deer. One noted his 92 yard kill of a Elk. Several of us have practiced long range shooting. Myself, field shooting and a few times a 3D targets of some 100 yards plus. I've cleaned the 80 yard Walk in Field a few times, even cleaned it with solid Xs. Of 3D I've more than taken my share of trophies with shots including 50 and 55 yards. For deer hunting I practice at a maximum of 40 yards, but have never taken that long of shot. My most longest were of 31 and 35 yards, full broadside hits, and virtually assured the deer wasn't going to make another move and the majority other shots were of 25 yards and less, one at 7 and one at 10. So around my area the several times read 19 yard average is a real thing. Out west, mule deer and Elk country, the range can be longer, but so many times I've read of stalking within spitting distance.

I guess the question would be if you're good enough is it right to take that extreme shot and if you're good enough is it ethical? Personally, just too much can go wrong 80 yards out. I'd be sick forever if I wounded a grand animal of any kind.

[Tominator]

Being good enough is one thing, (which I'm not), but I'd be more worried about kinetic energy at those distances. Unethical IMHO.

[Muleyman]

To me that is defiently unethical. So much can go wrong at that distance. You could shoot and the aniaml could take a few steps, and wound him.

[bloodtrails]

True that if we see a 190 or better we all want it. But how bout moving your stand and trying it on a different day. Or putting a stalk on him. But to take a blast at 80 or 90 yrds. is pretty bad!

[Prairiepredator]

Even if you are a really good shot, taking a shot that far is unethical. By the time the arrows gets there, that deer could have moved quite a bit. It would be better to completely miss him than injure him.

[buckee]

Being good enough is one thing, (which I'm not), but I'd be more worried about kinetic energy at those distances. Unethical IMHO.

I agree 110%. Kinetic energy has more to do with it than how good of a shot you are.

Know your limit, and stay within it.

35 yrds would be my max, unless of course I'm hunting antelope with Steve B. ..LOL

[Tony]

To me that is defiently unethical. So much can go wrong at that distance. You could shoot and the animal could take a few steps, and wound him.

Even if you are a really good shot, taking a shot that far is unethical. By the time the arrows gets there, that deer could have moved quite a bit. It would be better to completely miss him than injure him.

but you see guys when you say that its unethical to take a long shot who determines at what distance the shot now becomes ethical?

so at what distance is an ethical shot then? 40? 50? 60? nothing past 30? i have seen some guys that shouldnt be allowed to shoot past 25 yards. i have seen others that are fully capable at 100. 1 person i know can hold 6 inch groups at 100 yards.

if a deer takes a step at 30 yards when the arrow is released its going to be a bad hit. so does that mean we shouldnt shoot past 30? an arrow traveling at 300 fps will reach a game animal in 1 sec at 100 yards. at 50 yards its a 1/2 second flight time. are you saying is that no one has seen a deer stand still for longer than 1 second?

for me a person has to make up there mind at how long a shot they want to make. i made a shot at 62 yards this year on my doe. it was the second shot i took and the first was probably good enough to kill it, but the doe offered me a second chance and i took it. was it wrong for me to shoot the long shot?

Tony

[The_Kat]

I say shoot as far as ya want and are comfortable. Just know that if ya wound, or miss that monster at that range ya may never get another chance and you'll beat yourself up for a long time over it. I made a 42 yard shot on a doe once. I consider my max range at 40.

Tony you da man!

[m gardner]

Don't worry about kinetic energy when it comes to killing an animal with an arrow. You aren't imparting enough energy to kill it. Momentum and impulse are what you need and the formula doesn't give velocity (it's not squared) as much importance as weight. An arrow will kill at long range very nicely. I've shot two deer at over 80 yards in 43 years and got complete penetration with cut on contact heads. Ethics is a funny thing. It usually entails demeaning others to make yourself feel better. I think a better thing is to share what you've done over the years that has been productive and give people enough rope to learn something on their own. Most will figure it out. The big problem I have at ranges over 40 yards is trying to figure the angle the animal is standing at and putting an arrow into the vitals. And like Tony said, after you start shooting all bets are off. Remember, we are going afield to hurt something. Badly enough to kill it. We hope.

Mark

[Muleyman]

but you see guys when you say that its unethical to take a long shot who determines at what distance the shot now becomes ethical?

so at what distance is an ethical shot then? 40? 50? 60? nothing past 30? i have seen some guys that shouldnt be allowed to shoot past 25 yards. i have seen others that are fully capable at 100. 1 person i know can hold 6 inch groups at 100 yards.

if a deer takes a step at 30 yards when the arrow is released its going to be a bad hit. so does that mean we shouldnt shoot past 30? an arrow traveling at 300 fps will reach a game animal in 1 sec at 100 yards. at 50 yards its a 1/2 second flight time. are you saying is that no one has seen a deer stand still for longer than 1 second?

for me a person has to make up there mind at how long a shot they want to make. i made a shot at 62 yards this year on my doe. it was the second shot i took and the first was probably good enough to kill it, but the doe offered me a second chance and i took it. was it wrong for me to shoot the long shot?

Tony

With my bow right now I am still at low pounds and so 50 yards is my max. But when I have my pounds higher to me I wouldn't take anything over 60. To me hunting is about the stalk so I like to make an exciting stalk. It is a closer action and seems funner when you are shooting it at 40 then when you are shooting it at 100.

[Prairiepredator]

but you see guys when you say that its unethical to take a long shot who determines at what distance the shot now becomes ethical?

so at what distance is an ethical shot then? 40? 50? 60? nothing past 30? i have seen some guys that shouldnt be allowed to shoot past 25 yards. i have seen others that are fully capable at 100. 1 person i know can hold 6 inch groups at 100 yards.

if a deer takes a step at 30 yards when the arrow is released its going to be a bad hit. so does that mean we shouldnt shoot past 30? an arrow traveling at 300 fps will reach a game animal in 1 sec at 100 yards. at 50 yards its a 1/2 second flight time. are you saying is that no one has seen a deer stand still for longer than 1 second?

for me a person has to make up there mind at how long a shot they want to make. i made a shot at 62 yards this year on my doe. it was the second shot i took and the first was probably good enough to kill it, but the doe offered me a second chance and i took it. was it wrong for me to shoot the long shot?

Tony

To me there is nothing wrong with a 62 yard shot, but much over that, you are taking a risk. I honestly don't care how good of a shot you are at distances like 80, 90, or 100 yards, but when hunting there is so much that can screw you up. Things like wind, a twig in the way, your nerves, and the fact that the deer is very likely to move when he hears your bow, are all factors that will affect your shot. Where I live taking a shot around 60 yards is nothing that odd because there is a lot of open country so it is a lot harder to close the distance. I don't think I am confident at 60 yards yet but I will eventually get better at taking shots that far. But on the other hand... I have also seen someone take a shot a mule deer doe at 60 yards and the deer ran off the second the deer heard the bow. So 60 can be risky but I think if I was confident I would go for the shot.

[Ethan Givan]

I think if you are confident in your ability to shoot at long ranges and you have practiced extensively at those ranges then go ahead and take the shot if you want. However if your taking 80, 90, or 100 yard shots, it seems to take away from one of the purposes of bowhunting. For me bowhunting gives me a chance to get as close as possible to the animal. If you are gonna take 70+ yard shots you might as well hunt with a gun. Bowhunting was not meant to take animals at extended ranges in my opinion.

[VermontHunter]

I for one know that I can consistantly hit groups as small as 3" on a target at 50 yrds. But, I've learned one valuable lesson quickly, targets don't react to the sound of an arrow being released, like live game doe's ...

With the speed of sound being 1125 ft/s, the farther the live target is, the greater time it has to react, therefore the greater chance of missing or wounding.

IMHO, it boils down to how comfortable the individual shooter feels about the shot about to be taken. I really hate to hear someone say, "I wouldn't have taken that shot". What more can I say ..

Happy Hunting All, and I wish everyone nothing but great success, if you miss, don't give up, get out there and get after it again ..

[Prairiepredator]

I think if you are confident in your ability to shoot at long ranges and you have practiced extensively at those ranges then go ahead and take the shot if you want. However if your taking 80, 90, or 100 yard shots, it seems to take away from one of the purposes of bowhunting. For me bowhunting gives me a chance to get as close as possible to the animal. If you are gonna take 70+ yard shots you might as well hunt with a gun. Bowhunting was not meant to take animals at extended ranges in my opinion.

I like the way you think Ethan!

[ruttinbuc]

It comes down to your shooting confidence. I don't shoot past 50 because I don't practice that far. Even then it has to be a situation with a wide open shot. I will always attempt to try and let the animal get as close as possible.

You can't control what other people do and how far they shoot. It is their conscience and questions they have to deal with if they screw up.

[Adjam5]

Doesn't the poundage you are drawing have something to do with how fast, flat and hard the arrow hits?

If someone is drawing 90+lbs. wouldn't their arrow get there faster with more energy than someone drawing only 45lbs?

Yes, it is slower than the speed of sound and the margin for error is present. But that is possibility of any shot with a target than can move before the projectile gets there.

A lot of practice will build a persons confidence for those longer shots. No one wants to wound an animal. I think those who take those long shots (50yds+) are confidant that they can make them.

For me...bowhunting is about getting close, not how far.

[The_Kat]

some folks speak of shooting this far is taking a risk. I dare say shooting razor blades at an animal is a risk in itself. A bullet usually works just as well if not better.

If the hunter can make the shot, then do it to it! He's the one who has to live with his decision.

[Doc]

I don't know, I have always thought that the lure of bowhunting was the need to get within short distances. You know, the up-close-and-personal thing. 80, 90, 100 yards ........ I have to start thinking what the heck is wrong with your hunting skills? Some guys like to brag about the long shot that they made. I like to brag about how close I got.

The other thing that comes to mind is what happens if the deer decides to take a step or two at release. No, I'm not talking about "jumping the string". I'm saying the deer takes a casual step as when feeding. That's how they feed ... I've seen them do it. I did some checking. A deer walks at an average of 3.5 - 4 miles per hour. Using a bow that shoots an arrow at 400 fps (pretty darn fast .... eh?) and a deer 40 yards away taking a step at 3.5 mph, moves 18.48 inches. That's assuming that there is no velocity loss over the flight distance (not true of course). How about a deer that is 90 yards away? He moves 41.58 inches. There are all kinds of things that are left out of those calculations, but you get the idea that whatever results you get on the shooting range with every condition totally under your control, means absolutely nothing when shooting at a target that has the ability to move. Somebody mentioned a twig in the arrows path. How about it .... can you see every twig out to 60, 80, 90 yards? That's some pretty good eyes if you can. Wind .... ever watch the snow in the winter and see how a pretty fact gust can be blowing just a short distance from where you are where it looks to be calm? How about the way that you are shooting? have you practiced those 60 or 90 yard shots from up in a treestand? How about on sloping terrain where your footing may not be on dead flat ground? Oh, and by the way when someone says they can shoot such and so groups at 60 yards, we assume they're talking broadheads. What you can do on a public field course with field tips is no indication of what you can do when you screw on those broadheads. Also, the distance factor. At 50 yards, you had better know the distance perfectly. That doesn't mean range the distance once and then estimate how many more or less yards the deer moved afterward. How big a factor do you think that might be at 90 yards?

So the idea that you can judge your shooting proficiency based on what you can do on the range is simply bogus. You don't have the complete control over your shooting conditions like you do on a shooting range. A bow is an imperfect weapon at best. It is NOT a gun. That is why we generally consider it a close-range weapon. Certainly every hunting shot with a bow involves some risk of target movement and other variables. Just how much are you willing to risk? That's really the question ...... not how good are you on the archery range. Are you going to put the odds in your favor by selecting only close shots or are you going to really gamble with 60, 80 or 90 yard shots. Well, that's something we each have to answer for ourselves I guess. That's a personal choice that you will have to live with after the arrow leaves the bow.

Doc

[m gardner]

I have a friend that shoots competitively. He shoots softball sized groups at 100 meters. I shot with him yesterday and love doing it because he constantly critiques my form. But, I've shot more game with my bow in the three years I've known him than he has in his entire life and we're old guys. Like Doc said, there's more to it than shooting field tips at inanimate targets. If you want a real education shoot small game with your bow. Especially things like quail and jackrabbits that either move all the time or aren't there when the arrow gets there. I know most guys don't because they have the same arrows and broadheads this year as they had last year.

Mark

[dbHunterNY]

I've practiced out to 80 yards, but I'm not even sure how much penetration you'd get on any marginal shot. Then the deer could duck the arrow if it saw it coming with ease I'd think. The wind alone could screw up your arrow flight.

[ultratec1]

I think that in the end it comes down to the hunter themselves. Who am I to judge someone on what distance they shoot?? I have more things to worry about then that. I saw a post on here that said that Bowhunting was meant to get close to the game, I would have to disagree, bowhunting meant that you could kill animals at longer distances then you could with the spear or rock you were luggin around.

Like Tony said earlier, there are guys that hunt that shouldnt be shooting even 5 yrds much less 20 but then again they go hunting every year and wound animal everytime. If we were to go through this years posts about wounded animals on this site and other sites I'm willing to bet my next years salary that the majority of lost deer threads are shots taken under 35 yrds. Is it ok now because you shot it in what you deemed as the ethical zone???? Now I ask this, if you wound a deer/ animal is it now unethical because you missed, grazed, gut shot, hit a twig, string hit your arm or just plain got excited?? More than likely not. It will be chalked up to a unfortunate expierence be told later on. I have a problem with shotgun hunting, I think that there is nothing sporting about the way that deer drives are conducted and seeing 3 legged deer or finding the dead ones after the season is over, but am I going to call people unethical because their way of hunting is legal and thats what they enjoy?? Nope I just say happy hunting and be very thankful that we still have it to do. THere are countries out there that dont have that luxury unless your wealthy

[camoman1]

It would be wrong for ME to take a shot over 40yds. I practice at 50yds, and have taken shots farther than that at 3D shoots, but I am not consistent enough past 40yds to attempt to take an animal at that range. Until I consider myself to be good enough, I wont be shooting at any critters past 40yds....I better go and practice now:)

[jbeck]

Shot one at 3 feet of the ground one time, does that count, got good penetration too. I think I'll stick with shorter ranges, I seem to have the ability to screw those up enough. As for other guys I think I'll let them make there own decisions, we already have a government trying to think for us, I'm not about to put my judgement on someone else.

[Tony]

To me there is nothing wrong with a 62 yard shot, but much over that, you are taking a risk. I honestly don't care how good of a shot you are at distances like 80, 90, or 100 yards, but when hunting there is so much that can screw you up. Things like wind, a twig in the way, your nerves, and the fact that the deer is very likely to move when he hears your bow, are all factors that will affect your shot. Where I live taking a shot around 60 yards is nothing that odd because there is a lot of open country so it is a lot harder to close the distance. I don't think I am confident at 60 yards yet but I will eventually get better at taking shots that far. But on the other hand... I have also seen someone take a shot a mule deer doe at 60 yards and the deer ran off the second the deer heard the bow. So 60 can be risky but I think if I was confident I would go for the shot.

the 62 yard shot i took was the second shot on the doe. not the first. i could see she was mortaly hit from the first shot and would have died easily. but since she gave me a second opportunity, i took it. my max is 50 yards. but if a game animal i have hit gives me a second shot im going for it.

i do agree that the further the shot, the more chance there is for a bad hit due to arrow flight time. but its just going to come down to what you feel you can do and maybe live with if the shot goes wrong.

Tony

[Bowtech_archer07]

I consider my max range to be 40 yards. I may try to extend that to 45 or 50 this offseason if I can do the shooting necessary. I think that anyone can shoot as far as they feel comfortable. A taxidermist close by my hometown killed a B&C moose at 90 yards... yes, the kill shot was at 90 yards. I didn't believe it at first, but he had evidence to back it up. He can shoot a 5 inch group at 80 yards. Like I said, I think an ethical shot is up to each individual person and how confident they are in their equipment and themselves.