A Christian's reponse to Anti-hunters of various types these days.

[buckee]

Here's one of my answers to an anti hunter who came in here once, a while back.

The whole anti-hunting, anti-gun, anti-war, anti-this and anti-that movement has it's base rooted in FEAR of the unknown.

Because you have NO faith in God, and have NO faith in what Jesus did for you on the cross, and NO faith that He is coming back and will judge the world someday ....You are FEARFUL for the world.

I don't blame you, in that sense, because if I had NO faith in Jesus, and what he has done and still going to do, I would be fearful too. After all...without faith, I would have to come up with my own belief system (like you have) to justify my existence.

When you take God, completely out of the picture, you are left with a very troubled world indeed, with no hope, no faith and a very, very uncertain future.

This godless uncertain future is what has spawned all of these "Saviors of our environment & Saviors our world Movements"

You have a deep want to live forever, but because you don't believe in God, or life everlasting through faith in Jesus, or even that God is in ultimate control, the best you can do is try to figure out some way of staying alive a few days longer than the rest of us. Some of you have even bought into the" NO RED MEAT" in your diet, as a way of hopefully prolonging your miserable life.

You look at wars and what has caused them, but because your eyes have been made blind by your unbelief, you accuse Christianity and the belief in God as the culprit of war, instead of studying the other side of the coin.

It was Godless tyrants and dictators, that have been the cause of every war in History. They thought just like you do. They had a vision of a better world, but because of their disbelief, they fell into their own dilutions of what their idea of a perfect world was going to be for them. They forced their beliefs on others, until God stepped in and stopped them through war.

You are one of these little dictators, who has succumbed to your own (or should I say someone else's) delusional idea, of how we (mankind) can create our own utopia (without God) here on earth.

Without a firm foundation to build your faith, your life and your actions on, you have this need to explain your own existence and define it somehow.

Since you turn from God at every corner in your life, you run from him and find yourself in the arms of the demented and delusional anti movement, who seem to have all the answers to your perplexed mind.

I do agree with you on one account, and that is that yes, there have been terrible things done in History, in the name of God, that were not of God. The inquisition, for example was performed in the name of God, but totally inconsistent with Gods word, so you can't blame Christianity for it and you can't blame God for it, but you can pin the blame on mans dictatorship.

You come in here, not to share some great insight with anyone, but to stir up emotions.

You obviously didn't come here to have a discussion with us, because it is clear that you don't even possess the skills to debate or discuss. Instead you rant and chant your personal dilutions.

My suggestion to you is to take yourself out to dinner tonight. Sit down and order the surf and turf (steak and lobster). Then stop at a store and pick yourself up a copy of "The Holy Bible" and "In Defense of Hunting" and go home and read.

Because of your deep-seated disbelief, I would suggest you ask God to remove the scales from your eyes and unblock your ears, (like I did so many years ago), so that you may understand what your reading.

Just because you are sincere, doesn't make you right ...You are just sincerely wrong

Quotes:

-----------------------------

Romans 14:6

He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

1 Corinthians 15:

38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

-------------------------------

So you see, God condones both what you do and what we do, as long as we do so, while giving our thanks to him.

Here is another Bible scripture that is referring to the times we live in today, and specifically to this discussion.

Quotes:

-------------------------------

1 Timothy 4

1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

Just my 2 cents for the day. If it makes any sense to you, Thank God.

If it doesn't..heck..blame me.

[Hoosierbuck]

Some good stuff, there buckee. Thanks for sharing.

HB

[PotashRLS]

I like the response. Whom ever believes in him shall have eternal life.

[twowetdogz]

Very Nice.

[muggs]

I will say, I do like your psychological/spiritual take on why there has been a movement towards saving the planet, caused by a lack of spiritualism and belief in God.

I have some problems with the summation though.

One, you use a lot language that shows judgment and is really a personal attack on your audience. For example, "as a way of hopefully prolonging your miserable life" and referring to them as "little dictators." While I agree (and am often frustrated) that so many people are blind to the gifts we have been given here on Earth, I still refrain from passing judgment, especially if I'm trying to explain my point of view to someone who may not feel the same. After all, the true virtues of Christianity should not be based in such a negative frame of mind. It's also things like that that drive many people away from Christianity. If you're a follower of the Bible and believe that you must witness God to them, this probably isn't the most effective way to get through to your target audience.

I also thinks it's hard to argue that man-made religion creates wars. Christianity isn't innocent from this either since it did start the Crusades- in the name of God mind you. So, as you say, you can't blame God for anything, but there is certainly a lot you can blame on what man has done in the name of Christianity.

Actually, I'd go as far as to say the entire tone of your statement is extremely is ego-driven. You're positioning yourself in a position of superiority to whoever you're addressing with this.

Man's ego, in it's purest sense, is the main hurdle to experiencing and coming to know God. This is the underlying theme of all the world's religions actually (regardless of what you may think of them), this most definitely includes Christianity. One could say it was man's ego that compelled Adam to disobey God in the Garden of Eden, thusly, creating original sin, which going by your faith, man has been working to repent ever since.

Edited January 29, 2010 by muggs

[wtnhunt]

I also thinks it's hard to argue that man-made religion creates wars. Christianity isn't innocent from this either since it did start the Crusades- in the name of God mind you. So, as you say, you can't blame God for anything, but there is certainly a lot you can blame on what man has done in the name of Christianity.

Think Steve clearly covered this here and agree that what has been done by man in the name of Christianity since it was that man's own sick twisted interpretation really does not refelct on what true Christianity and faith are about.

You look at wars and what has caused them, but because your eyes have been made blind by your unbelief, you accuse Christianity and the belief in God as the culprit of war, instead of studying the other side of the coin.

It was Godless tyrants and dictators, that have been the cause of every war in History. They thought just like you do. They had a vision of a better world, but because of their disbelief, they fell into their own dilutions of what their idea of a perfect world was going to be for them. They forced their beliefs on others, until God stepped in and stopped them through war.

You are one of these little dictators, who has succumbed to your own (or should I say someone else's) delusional idea, of how we (mankind) can create our own utopia (without God) here on earth.

Without a firm foundation to build your faith, your life and your actions on, you have this need to explain your own existence and define it somehow.

Since you turn from God at every corner in your life, you run from him and find yourself in the arms of the demented and delusional anti movement, who seem to have all the answers to your perplexed mind.

I do agree with you on one account, and that is that yes, there have been terrible things done in History, in the name of God, that were not of God. The inquisition, for example was performed in the name of God, but totally inconsistent with Gods word, so you can't blame Christianity for it and you can't blame God for it, but you can pin the blame on mans dictatorship.

You come in here, not to share some great insight with anyone, but to stir up emotions.

You obviously didn't come here to have a discussion with us, because it is clear that you don't even possess the skills to debate or discuss. Instead you rant and chant your personal dilutions.

Actually, I'd go as far as to say the entire tone of your statement here extremely is ego-driven. You're positioning yourself in a position of superiority to whoever you're addressing with this.

I sure did not get that out of this post. Not sure what initiated this post at this point in time, but definitely a good topic of dicsussion.

[buckee]

You're right Muggs, I guess it's in the way you read "Miserable" though, and in the context it was given.

Does this sound better? "Some of you have even bought into the" NO RED MEAT" in your diet, as a way of not only prolonging your fearful/faithless life, but also being a pawn somehow in saving the world.."

I referred to them as "little dictators." in the proper context muggsy. when you take it out and let it stand alone like you did, it does sound worse.

It was and still is, Godless tyrants and dictators, that have been the cause of every war in History. They thought just like you do. They had a vision of a better world, but because of their disbelief, they fell into their own dilutions of what their idea of a perfect world was going to be for them. They forced their beliefs on others, until God stepped in and stopped them through war. You are one of these little dictators, who has succumbed to your own (or should I say someone else's) delusional idea, of how we (mankind) can create our own utopia (without God) here on earth.

Originally Posted by muggs

Actually, I'd go as far as to say the entire tone of your statement here extremely is ego-driven. You're positioning yourself in a position of superiority to whoever you're addressing with this.

No Muggs, my statements weren't ego driven, they were defense driven. I find myself defending my faith, my life, and all that I love more and more these days. Saying my statement was ego driven is like telling a soldier he is being arrogant by returning fire at the enemy. We are at war. It's a spiritual war, and the only weapons we have are the truth.

Not sure what initiated this post at this point in time

I was just sitting here yesterday, thinking about how crazy the world is getting, with all these little "save the planet" groups everywhere you look, and now a fixed entity in our governments decision making as well. It's sad.

Edited January 29, 2010 by buckee

[Prairiepredator]

That is pretty deep stuff there Steve. Someone has got to tell those people.

[muggs]

Think Steve clearly covered this here and agree that what has been done by man in the name of Christianity since it was that man's own sick twisted interpretation really does not refelct on what true Christianity and faith are about.

I sure did not get that out of this post. Not sure what initiated this post at this point in time, but definitely a good topic of dicsussion.

When you refer to a life as miserable, any life, you're passing judgement and also implying that the life you're leading is somehow superior.

Steve, no I don't think sounds any better.

How can you be sure your views aren't generated by fear? As William says, man has obviously twisted God's true meaning already.

So how can anyone be sure enough what they currently believe is pure enough to use as a measuring stick to judge others?

Regardless of what religion you subscribe to, I think it's hard to agrue that God should be the only one who judges. Doing so, puts you in the same vain as the anti's you're labeling as fearful.

Can you see my point?

Edited January 29, 2010 by muggs

[buckee]

When you refer to a life as miserable, any life, you're passing judgement and also implying that the life you're leading is somehow superior.

Steve, no I don't think sounds any better.

How can you be sure your views aren't generated by fear? As William says, man has obviously twisted God's true meaning already.

So how can anyone be sure enough what they currently belief is pure enough to judge others?

Regardless of what religion you subscribe to, I think it's hard to agrue that God should be the only one who judges. Doing so, puts you in the same vain as the anti's you're labeling as fearful.

Can you see my point?

Here's some good reading for you Muggs

JUDGE RIGHTLY

(Is not some guy's name)

Jesus commanded men to "judge rightly" and He told them to “judge not.”

Did the Lord contradict Himself? Or does the Bible say more about judging than the general public realizes?

Jesus repeatedly taught men to judge rightly, insisting they “judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24) and He praised a man who “rightly judged” (Luke 7:43). Paul shamed the Corinthian Christians because no one among them was willing to “judge the smallest matters” (1 Cor. 6:2). As the Apostle wrote, “He who is spiritual judges all things” for “we have the mind of Christ” (1 Cor. 2:15-16).

Where did we get the notion that men should never judge? Should child-molesters escape condemnation? Should rapists be free from criticism? Should society refrain from judging those arrested for murder? And why would anyone judge others for judging?

Borrowing characters from C. S. Lewis, imagine this dialogue between a junior demon named Wormwood and his wicked uncle Screwtape. This fiendish exchange could have occurred a century ago:

Wormwood: Believers have so many weapons at their disposal. It is difficult to neutralize them. It takes a huge effort just to slow the work of a single Christian.

Screwtape: Your one-on-one approach is inefficient. This is the age of Madison Avenue and mass marketing. If you can undermine their whole group at once, then you’ve accomplished something.

Wormwood: Unfortunately, I’m not highly productive. In the time it takes me to frustrate one believer, I could tempt a dozen heathens.

Screwtape: Don’t lose heart, Wormwood. We are imple*menting a plan to impair the whole Church with a single ploy.

Wormwood: I don’t see how that will be possible. I see Christians dedicated to warning others about ****. It’s all I can do just to get one of them distracted for a short time.

Screwtape: We are going to use their Leader’s own words.

Wormwood: No! Please don’t. Don’t even joke about using His words. I can’t take it.

Screwtape: If you’re ever going to grow up to be an effec*tive demon, you’re going to have to learn to use the Enemy’s words against Him.

Wormwood: It just seems so dangerous. Which words are you going to use?

Screwtape: “Judge not!”

Wormwood: I don’t understand why He would tell them not to judge. That’s confusing. He commanded His followers to rebuke, admonish, and judge hundreds of times in His Book. And that’s what they’re out there

doing. And I might add, it’s causing me grief.

Screwtape: When their Leader said those words, He was speaking to hypocrites. “Judge not… you hypocrite,” as He said later in the same paragraph.

Wormwood: Yeah, but how are we going to use “Judge not” to neutralize the whole Church?

Screwtape: We’re going to get them to ignore the fact that He was talking to hypocrites. He said that hypocrites should not judge, at least not until they stop doing the wrong deed themselves. But we’re going to make them think none of them should judge, ever.

Wormwood: That’s bril*liant… if you can pull it off, that is. I mean, if we can get them to stop judging, then they won’t rebuke the wicked. And they won’t be able to admonish those who are sexually immoral.

Screwtape: It is even more brilliant than you realize. If we can seduce Christians into fol*lowing the instructions for hypo*crites, we will turn them into hypocrites. It’s like government workers who follow foolish rules so precisely they are transformed from human beings into bureau*crats; drones who mindlessly dis*pense red tape regardless of the misfortune they cause. The slave who willingly obeys his master, begins to conform to the master. If believers willingly submit to an instruction for hypocrites, they will conform to hypocrisy. Eventually, with a little evil luck, we might stop them from con*fronting unbelievers altogether because, as you know Worm*wood, to confront requires judg*ing. And if they don’t judge un*believers, they are hypocrites, professing the Gospel but deny*ing its power.

Wormwood: Ha, ha. I’m excited. When do we start?

Screwtape: Everything is underway already. Just do your part.

Wormwood: And that is…?

Screwtape: Make sure your targets read as little of the Book as possible. Don’t get too wor*ried if they stick to their favorite twenty cliché verses. But make sure they remain ignorant of most of the Word.

Wormwood: Master, you are brilliant.

Screwtape: You can call me Master if you want, but don’t let the boss hear you.

A lie paralyzed the Church. God warns against “hypocrisy” commanding men to “abhor what is evil” (Rom. 12:9). Yet to abhor evil, someone must first judge evil. Thus, unable to judge, large numbers of Christians become hypocrites by obeying the Hypocrites Golden Rule. Since the hypocrite doesn’t want to be judged, he judges not, as Jesus said, “Judge not… you hypocrite” (Mat. 7:1, 5 KJV; Ezek. 16:52). For “judge not” (Mat. 7:1-5) is simply a hypocrites application of do unto others as you would have them do unto you (Mat. 7:12). “For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged” (Mat. 7:2). Judge others as you would have them do unto you inverted is Judge not if you do not want to be judged.

Christ kept repeated this theme in His ministry. “Hypocrites,” Jesus said, “why, even of yourselves, do you not judge what is right?” (Luke 12:56-57). Still, His own followers have mostly ignored the Lord’s harsh rebuke: “Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to [judge, i.e., to] remove the speck out of your brother’s eye” (Mat. 7:5). “Judge Not” is the Hypocritical Oath.

“Judge Not” is hypocrite haven. He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones. Such Christians should relocate. They should move into “the temple of the great God… being built with heavy stones” (Ezra 5:8).

Christians live in the “building” for which Christ is “the chief corner stone” (Eph. 2:20). And if that Stone falls on someone it “will grind him to powder” (Mat. 21:44; Luke 20:18; cf. Ex. 32:20). Better to be judged by a Christian than crushed by Christ.

Hollywood, Hillary, and Homosexuals repeat the phrase like a mantra, judge not, judge not, judge not, until the masses are mesmerized. Jesus did not intend this.

Scripture deals with topics that range from simple to advanced truth. Milk is for babes in Christ; meat is for men of God. The question of whether or not Christians should judge is milk. It is preschool. The newest believer taught any of a hundred passages would immediately understand that he must judge. Judging others is fundamental. It is not a difficult concept and should in no way be controversial.

“Everyone who partakes only in milk is unskilled in the Word of righteousness, for he is a babe” (Heb. 5:13). The Church, today lactose intolerant, has trouble even with milk.

Extreme ignorance of the Bible has crippled the Church. And that paralysis slows every denomination by hurting local fellowships. What is the percentage of Christians who have succumbed to the “Judge not” deception? Is there even one percent of believers who have not fallen for that diversion? A quarter century of observation suggests to this author that probably 99 out of 100 believers misquote Jesus by repeating the “Judge not” mantra. Believers need to turn from this sin and ask God for wisdom to keep from being so easily deceived again.

Curse God and die! Is that good advice? Word for word, it is in the Bible. Job’s wife counsels her husband to “Curse God and die” (Job 2:9). Many verses, if ripped out of context, can ruin lives. Judas “went and hanged himself” (Mat. 27:5) and as Jesus said “Go and do likewise” (Luke 10:37). The believer who lacks a hunger for God’s word is susceptible to the most absurd dangers.

An October 1996 letter in the Rocky Mountain News expressed a typical judge-not sentiment. It advocated incarceration and not the execution of murderers, who are made “in the image of God” as it would be “wrong to put the image of God to death.” However, the writer never addressed the incongruity of putting the image of God in jail.

“Judge not” is the prayer of those who want to hide light under a basket. The cliché describes salt, which has lost its flavor, which no longer seasons or preserves. This seductive lie takes its victims out of ministry. As spectators on the sidelines, they only watch the spiritual battle. But they are in a comfort zone. Apathy is the craving. “Judge not” is the shirking of responsibility.

To the Jews God said, “If you will walk in My ways, and if you will keep My command, then you shall also judge My house” (Zech. 3:7). Are members of the Body of Christ today less capable than Israel whom God commanded to “judge righteously” (Deut. 1:16-17; Lev. 19:15)? Moses appointed the head of one out of every ten households as a judge (Ex. 18:25; Deut. 1:15). Should Christians toss out the entire book of Judges? Should America eliminate all judges, or should just the Christian judges resign? Should believers ignore Paul’s admonition:

“Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you, not even one, who will be able to judge between his brethren?” (1 Cor. 6:2-5).

Notice that Christians “will judge the world!” (1 Cor. 6:2). For Paul said, “if the world will be judged by you…” God the Judge delegates judgment to His people. Even spirit beings will submit to believers: “Do you not know that we shall judge angels?” Then and now, believers should “judge... according to My judgments” (Ezek. 44:24) as God said. The Almighty commits judgment into the hands of His obedient servants (Rev. 20:4).

If God were the only judge, the sins of all men would be “clearly evident, preceding them to judgment” (1Tim. 5:24a). But because human beings will judge their fellow men on Judgment Day, therefore the sins “of some men follow later” (1Tim. 5:24b). The human judges will already have been aware of the sins of notorious men. But they will not learn of the sins of obscure men until they are revealed at Judgment Day. Also, these human judges will then become aware of the sins of leaders, celebrities, and even family members who had carefully concealed their wickedness.

Enoch, the seventh from Adam, may have known of this. For he said “the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints to execute judgment on all” (Jude 14-15). The Lord with His saints will judge the world!

Jesus too said, “The men of Nineveh will rise in the judgment with this generation and condemn it...” (Mat. 12:41). And as Solomon wrote, “jealously is a husband's fury; therefore, he will not spare [the adulterer who violated his wife] in the day of vengeance. He will accept no recompense nor will he be appeased” (Prov. 6:34-35). God gives the responsibility for vengeance, condemnation, and judgment to His servants for “every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord” (Isa. 54:17).

Today, many believers are effectively saying, “Lord, thanks but no thanks. I’ll pass on that judgment duty.” But Paul responds, Start judging now, because you will need the practice (1Cor. 6:2-5). Remember, “He who is spiritual judges all things. For... we have the mind of Christ” (1 Cor. 2:15-16). And God will reward those who judge, and do the hard work: “Those who rebuke the wicked will have delight, and a good blessing will come upon them.” (Prov. 24:25).

Would slain Columbine high school student Danny Rohrbough be forgiving or judgmental toward his unrepentant murderers? A People Magazine photo in Nov. 1999 shows his family and friends answering that question. They quote Rev. 6:10 in which martyred Christians in heaven ask God to “avenge our blood.” Judge-not Christians condemn the martyr’s call for vengeance, but never the murderer.

Hopefully the Church will see Judge Not headed for retirement replaced with Judge Rightly. For as Jesus said, “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment” (John 7:24).

Bob Enyart

Pastor, Denver Bible Church

PO Box 583

Arvada CO 80001

It is only the enemy who wants us to lay down our weapons (the Truth) and be silent.

by buckee

Edited January 29, 2010 by buckee

[wtnhunt]

When you refer to a life as miserable, any life, you're passing judgement and also implying that the life you're leading is somehow superior.

Steve, no I don't think sounds any better.

How can you be sure your views aren't generated by fear? As William says, man has obviously twisted God's true meaning already.

So how can anyone be sure enough what they currently belief is pure enough to judge others?

Regardless of what religion you subscribe to, I think it's hard to agrue that God should be the only one who judges. Doing so, puts you in the same vain as the anti's you're labeling as fearful.

Can you see my point?

I do see your point, but observations don't necessarily mean judgement is being cast Eric. Perspectives are going to be different, because one person has a different perspective or because one points out what they notice and uses words to describe that that they seem to see fitting does not mean they are judging another or a group. I agree it is for God to judge us all. By your own way you word your reply it would seem you are judging Steve, are you not?

As far as what is real and what is twisted by man, that is where faith comes into play, and individuals can have their own relationship with God and make those determinations for themselves. Can you believe every word of the Bible for it as it is written in how you interpret those words? Is the interpretation you get from your preacher the same as yours or as mine or as Steve's or the next person? Likely not, does that mean your view is twisted or wrong because it is not the same as mine or a preachers, I don't think so, but when man uses his own twisted version as in the crusades or for other personal gain it becomes pretty obvious that it is not true to what God intended and even though man in the name of Christianity did wrong it really was not Christianity at all.

[muggs]

Steve, my own suggested reading. From the Book of Matthew 7:1-5.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."

No Muggs, my statements weren't ego driven, they were defense driven. I

Would you consider becoming defensive a product of fear?

William:

Perspectives are going to be different, because one person has a different perspective or because one points out what they notice and uses words to describe that that they seem to see fitting does not mean they are judging another or a group.

Actually, I think that is a very good definition of passing judgement.

By your own way you word your reply it would seem you are judging Steve, are you not?

If you can point a specific phrase, I'd appreciate it. What I am trying to do (I guess how successfully I'm doing so is a matter of opinion) is to point out that man can never be in a position to judge because we are never certain what is and what is not. That is where faith comes into the equation.

As far as what is real and what is twisted by man, that is where faith comes into play, and individuals can have their own relationship with God and make those determinations for themselves. Can you believe every word of the Bible for it as it is written in how you interpret those words? Is the interpretation you get from your preacher the same as yours or as mine or as Steve's or the next person?

Right, and to me, that is placing faith in men, not God.

Edited January 29, 2010 by muggs

[wtnhunt]

If you can point a specific phrase, I'd appreciate it. What I am trying to do (I guess how succesully I'm doing so is a matter of opinion) is point out that man can never be in a position to judge because we are never certain what is and what is not. That is where faith comes into the equation.

This assumption below and what it seems to be implying is what I was referring to Eric:

Actually, I'd go as far as to say the entire tone of your statement is extremely is ego-driven. You're positioning yourself in a position of superiority to whoever you're addressing with this.

Just my take, but I did not get that Steve was attempting to position himself as being superior over anyone.

Right, and to me, that is placing faith in men, not God.

If you choose to let it be. I personally do not think it wise not to question and look for answers to those questions. That in my opinion is blind following without faith in Him, and those individuals may very well be lost despite the location they find themselves in every Sunday.

[wtnhunt]

Perspectives are going to be different, because one person has a different perspective or because one points out what they notice and uses words to describe that that they seem to see fitting does not mean they are judging another or a group.

Actually, I think that is a very good definition of passing judgement.

So let me make sure I understand you right here Eric. By this does this mean that because you acknowledge that someone has a different perspective than yours whether you think it is right or wrong or you make no assumptions as to whether it is right or wrong but simply that you acknowledge it, that means by your way of thinking that you are casting judgement?:confused:

[camoman1]

I am by NO means defending anti-hunters or peta etc. But I can quote bible verses that dont condone eating meat.

'' It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood'' Leviticus 3.17

There are just as many questionable things in the bible as there are 'good' things.

"And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle.. Judges 14.19

All of that over a riddle about a dead lion and honey.

I guess my point is, All of what is written in the bible should not be taken seriously...in reality, its a book of death. One can go and quote a passage out of it to 'prove' just about anything one wishes.

I also believe that one doesnt need to be a practicing member of a 'religion' to be a good person...Most of the 10 Commandments are just basic 'good rules to live by'.

My stance on being PRO-GUN is based somewhat on fear....Fear of being unarmed when some lunatic tries to take my life or the life of a loved one. And my PRO-hunting stance because of fear that somebody someday is going to decide that I cant do that anymore. Do I tremble at nite....of course not, but that stuff is always in the back of my mind. All the praying in the world is not going to fill my freezer for the year, or stop the bullet from coming out of a lunatics gun.

Just my opinions..not trying to stir up anything.

[muggs]

I guess I'm just failing to see how attacking someone in the name of faith is any different than attacking someone because they hunt.

I see no distinction.

[buckee]

I am by NO means defending anti-hunters or peta etc. But I can quote bible verses that dont condone eating meat.

'' It shall be a perpetual statute for your generations throughout all your dwellings, that ye eat neither fat nor blood'' Leviticus 3.17

There are just as many questionable things in the bible as there are 'good' things.

That scripture is not against the eating of meat. It is against the eating of the fat and the blood of meat, which even today, we know that fat is not good for you and neither is the blood. That is why it is so important to bleed the animal good. It taints the meat. God was looking out for our health, even way back then.

"And the Spirit of the Lord came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle.. Judges 14.19

All of that over a riddle about a dead lion and honey.

I guess my point is, All of what is written in the bible should not be taken seriously...in reality, its a book of death. One can go and quote a passage out of it to 'prove' just about anything one wishes.

The reason they were killed is because they conspired together, and came across the answer to the riddle dishonestly. The old Testament was given to us to show us How God's law's were established and how there was a severe penalty for being dishonest. Not only does the old Testament show us how God's Law and order was established, but it also points to that wonderful day, when Jesus took all of our sins to the cross, and died in our place, so that we might be spared.

I also believe that one doesnt need to be a practicing member of a 'religion' to be a good person...Most of the 10 Commandments are just basic 'good rules to live by'.

There are no "Good" people in this world. Not by God's standards. Jesus said, "No one is good, no, not even one".

If man thinks he will be saved because he thinks he is a good person, he has another think coming. There is nothing in the way of "good works" that man can do to save himself. Salvation happened at the cross, and rests fully in Faith in Jesus.

[buckee]

Steve, my own suggested reading. From the Book of Matthew 7:1-5.

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."

Would you consider becoming defensive a product of fear?

I am fully aware that I will be judged with the same measure I judge, and am not afraid.

My defense is to defend my faith, not myself, and what I am fearful of is that others will fall into these false doctrines of "save the earth" mentality .

I guess I'm just failing to see how attacking someone in the name of faith is any different than attacking someone because they hunt.

I see no distinction.

Judging a man means that you find fault, try him, find him guilty and pronounce his fate.

I wasn't judging anyone in particular, I am however judging their actions, what they do, why they do it, where it's coming from, where it's going to, etc, etc.

If you came across a drug addict in the street, and told them that what they are doing is wrong, and that they are destroying their lives, hurting those around them, and will ultimately lead to an early death if they don't stop, is that judging them??

If I told a thief that they are wrong by stealing from others, and that they are hurting others and themselves by what they are doing, and if continued, may lead to their early death or imprisonment, am I judging them ??

Edited January 30, 2010 by buckee

[camoman1]

So Im guessing you dont eat any kind of animal fat? No brats, sausages, ribs.....and you wring out your steaks of all the blood before you cook them??

Who defines who is 'good'..?? I happened to be raised by two good people, who they themselves were raised by good people....I know lots of good people. I believe you are a good person, along with lots of folks here.

No matter what is written down in any book that has been translated a billion times from 10 languages that it itself was written by over a dozen people.

Thats why this country is great, we can each believe what we wish.

[buckee]

So Im guessing you dont eat any kind of animal fat? No brats, sausages, ribs.....and you wring out your steaks of all the blood before you cook them??

I wish ..LOL. Maybe if I didn't eat fat, I wouldn't have gotten cancer or have heart problems though. And God wasn't talking about ringing out the meat..LOL. You see, back then there were people who believed there was supernatural powers in the blood of animals and would drink it as a ritual. I'm pretty sure that's what the Lord was talking about, besides the fact that even a hunter knows that bloodshot meat is no good to eat either.

Who defines who is 'good'..?? I happened to be raised by two good people, who they themselves were raised by good people....I know lots of good people. I believe you are a good person, along with lots of folks here.

No matter what is written down in any book that has been translated a billion times from 10 languages that it itself was written by over a dozen people.

Thats why this country is great, we can each believe what we wish.

It's kind of funny what man's definition of GOOD is. God's definition of GOOD is sinless and perfect, and that, I am not.

The bible has been translated into different languages, but its all there.

Yes, the Bible is made up of different books, written by many different men of God down through History. I find it pretty amazing that all these books, when put together in the order they were written, not only compliment each other, but can be cross reference with one another. What are the chances of that ever happening with so many different authors...eh.

It was written my men's hands, but everything in it is inspired by the Holy Spirit in those men, as they wrote their account of history and what God has done and is still doing..

Edited January 29, 2010 by buckee

[camoman1]

There are no "Good" people in this world. Not by God's standards. Jesus said, "No one is good, no, not even one".

If man thinks he will be saved because he thinks he is a good person, he has another think coming. There is nothing in the way of "good works" that man can do to save himself. Salvation happened at the cross, and rests fully in Faith in Jesus.

So why give us the 10 Commandments? If its impossible to be 'good'...why give us rules to live by? If all you have to do is have faith in Jesus....that seems like the easy road. I can destroy my body with drugs, steal, lie, commit adultery, committ murder, be a burden to society?? All as long as I believe in Jesus and what he did...I have no worries?

[buckee]

There are no "Good" people in this world. Not by God's standards. Jesus said, "No one is good, no, not even one".

If man thinks he will be saved because he thinks he is a good person, he has another think coming. There is nothing in the way of "good works" that man can do to save himself. Salvation happened at the cross, and rests fully in Faith in Jesus.

So why give us the 10 Commandments? If its impossible to be 'good'...why give us rules to live by? If all you have to do is have faith in Jesus....that seems like the easy road. I can destroy my body with drugs, steal, lie, commit adultery, committ murder, be a burden to society?? All as long as I believe in Jesus and what he did...I have no worries?

That is far from what I believe. The 10 Commandments were given to man to "establish" God's law and to "establish" the penalty for disobedience. Back then, if a man of faith in God (and there were many..) disobeyed, or sinned against God's law, he was to make an animal sacrifice of some sort to acknowledge and atone for his sins. That animal sacrifice in itself was pointing to the day that our Savior and spotless lamb Jesus would take the sins of us all to the cross with him. His death and resurrection did not do away with the 10 commandments in the least, BUT IT DID DO AWAY WITH THE NEED FOR ANIMAL SACRIFICE.. What it did was to do away with the penalty of sin for those who believe. The 10 Commandments are still our guide to good sound law in our lives. The difference is, that now, we follow them because of our salvation through Christ, not to earn our salvation. WHY??...because no one can live this life, without falling into sin or disobedience of the law. So a Christian does good works because of his salvation, not to earn his salvation.

I didn't start this thread so I could preach to everyone, but it looks like that's what it's turned into...and I ain't no preacher...LOL

Edited January 30, 2010 by buckee

[camoman1]

I know you didnt start it to preach....and Im sorry if I came off as being snoody or sharp about things..that was not my intention.

I am not trying to find reasons why I think you are 'wrong', because I dont believe that you are 'wrong' about anything.

I like to see different peoples views on things and ask questions about it. I wouldnt really consider myself a real religious person....I have my beliefs and everybody else has theirs...thats how its always been and probably always will be. Again, sorry if I seemed like I was out to argue about things...that wasnt my intent....:angel1:

[buckee]

There are a few verses in the bible that have always stood out to me and have always made me ponder what is truth according to God and what is just me spewing off my own made up version of my own truth..

King James Bible

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Wise old Solomon wrote in Proverbs 14:12 and also Proverbs 16:25, "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death."

This verse alone makes one question what they believe and whether it is truth.

Then to clarify "the True Way" King Solomon writes in Proverbs 3:5-7:

5 "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

6 "In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths."

7 "Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil."

Then I guess it's up to the hearer of these verses to either discard them as trash, and go on trusting in themselves and their own understanding of things

or

to go into seek mode to find out what the truth really is, so that they are not just leaning on their own understanding, or some other man's version of Truth.