There will be blood in the streets

[Newarcher]

http://moneynews.com/StreetTalk/unions-401k-pensions/2009/03/17/id/328862

The SEIU and amabo are coming for your IRA's and 401-K's.

I think they greatly overestimate their reach. It is one thing to tax people on future income, it is something else to confiscate what people have earned, sacrificed for, and saved. I think this will create a response from the American people that will have blood in the streets.

I am telling you people. Get the word out because if they seriously try this, I see a civil war with the unions on one side and hard working, non thief Americans on the other. Sorry folks I have zero respect for union folks...having seen them thug their way around the Healthcare town hall meetings.

Before anyone accuses me of being an alarmist, the Dems have been after your retirement savings since Clinton. Clinton floated a plan where they would levy a one time (yeah right) tax of 15% on your retirement savings to create 401-K's for those who can't afford them for themselves--you know the poor people with their flat screen TV's larger than I have. Right before the election this year, the Dems sponsored a panel and one of the recommendations was to confiscate your 401-K and IRA's, give them to the government to manage for you (and use in the interim until it is gone like Social Insecurity). The Committee indicated their willingness to consider it.

New

[Ravin R10 man]

America's new theme song reguarding The Health Scare Plan...and Government takover!!

Edited March 25, 2010 by Mathews XT Man

[Wobbly_Alaska]

and right here is why.....look out Tbow... Oboy will be borrowing yours next..

Chinese Premier Wen Jinbao is telling U.S. policymakers that he is concerned about the "safety" of his country's already huge holdings of U.S. debt.

"We have lent a huge amount of money to the United States," said Wen, according to a report in the Financial Times. "We are concerned about the safety of our assets. To be honest, I am a little worried. I request the U.S. to maintain its good credit, to honor its promises and to guarantee the safety of China's assets."

[Newarcher]

Why is it that we are borrowing from China?

We are the world's largest economy....living beyond our means , managing the welfare and abuse of power by our politicians.

They should be borrowing from us.

You can't manage your household by borrowing without excess to fund elaborate vacations, new Ferrari's, 30 homes, etc. So it doesn't make any sense that the US tries it.

New

[Wobbly_Alaska]

Why is it that we are borrowing from China?

We are the world's largest economy....living beyond our means , managing the welfare and abuse of power by our politicians.

They should be borrowing from us.

You can't manage your household by borrowing without excess to fund elaborate vacations, new Ferrari's, 30 homes, etc. So it doesn't make any sense that the US tries it.

New

lol were broke... where do you think all that bailout money came from?

two wars on two fronts has tapped our revenue resource t the max. the Chinese been buying our Gov since Clinton easy.

[Newarcher]

lol were broke... where do you think all that bailout money came from?

two wars on two fronts has tapped our revenue resource t the max. the Chinese been buying our Gov since Clinton easy.

I half agree. We could wage the wars perfectly fine.

The problem has been going on for decades which is trying to take care of every need of every American from birth to death.

New

[mike13candace]

word.... We are in trouble

[wtnhunt]

There will be blood in the streets

Ummmm, well not exactly on your topic in regards to retirement plans, but yes this current liberal admin/agenda has folks upset enough that there are an increase in the number of death threats being made to legislators and it would appear that violence is also escalating as a result of the lawmakers most recent display of contempt for their constituents. Some evidently are going a step further than just threatening as news is coming out on a shot fired through VA senator Cantor's campaign headquarters window.

[Missed160]

I have to agree, there is a tipping point coming! I don't know it it'll be this, or immigration, or what issue, but there is a revolt coming!

[m gardner]

The general consensus of opinion on our situation is that it will end in some sort of marshall law being invoked (wonder why they aren't pushing gun control?) and then it will hit the fan. High unemployment and no one is pushing job creation? Just doing more to pull the system down?Now the situation in Mexico has hit the point where Hillary and the joint cheifs are there planning something. The cartels are not afraid of us (and are here, but not killing people on a genocidal level like in Mexico) and a small war here will give Obama the openign he needs to declare marshall law and deny us our rights. Very troublesome times ahead. No jobs and a whole lot of angry people who know the government is operating outside the constitution and have no power to stop it.

Mark

[Newarcher]

amabo has certainly pushed for some scary martial law changes, including some troublesome portions of the healthbill. It gives him the ability to call up a force in the event of a health issue or other cause.

We are certainly headed for a breakdown, what form that takes and what the spark is I don't know.

New

[stevebeilgard]

i think our money will be downgraded worldwide within a year or 2. it's good to see the tea party protesting so well. i'm with them at heart. we'll see what the fall elections do.

[Orion_70]

Why is it that we are borrowing from China?

We are the world's largest economy....living beyond our means , managing the welfare and abuse of power by our politicians.

They should be borrowing from us.

You can't manage your household by borrowing without excess to fund elaborate vacations, new Ferrari's, 30 homes, etc. So it doesn't make any sense that the US tries it.

New

It's called Corporate Greed and fleecing of the American Taxpayer. Coporate Loopholes that allow US based corporations to build plants overseas to build the merchandise and ship here without import taxes. Outsourcing American jobs for cheap overseas labor.

Close all the loopholes!!!

We may currently be the biggest economy, but that won't be so for long, China will overtake us shortly. Face it, the majority of our manufactuing and textile industries are already based there putting those people to work and costing our jobs. They'll have more money to purchase goods and will be cheaper since they're all made there.

We're facing record unemployment, deteriorating housing markets, and banks that are raping everyone in America...

[Newarcher]

It's called Corporate Greed and fleecing of the American Taxpayer. Coporate Loopholes that allow US based corporations to build plants overseas to build the merchandise and ship here without import taxes. Outsourcing American jobs for cheap overseas labor.

Close all the loopholes!!!

We may currently be the biggest economy, but that won't be so for long, China will overtake us shortly. Face it, the majority of our manufacturing and textile industries are already based there putting those people to work and costing our jobs. They'll have more money to purchase goods and will be cheaper since they're all made there.

We're facing record unemployment, deteriorating housing markets, and banks that are raping everyone in America...

I think that's a very short sighted argument.

The reason corporations are locating overseas is because the government of the US has decided to make it all but impossible for a Corporation to locate employees here. If you have to pay $60,000 on average for an employee's salary and healthcare benefits and administrata and extra taxes for US workers and can find someone in Mexico or India for $20,000....wouldn't you?

Until we cut the budget so that we can avoid sinking, we are in trouble.

Until we can change the tax system to where creating jobs here in America is competitive, we are done.

According to your argument, we are going to try to make American companies compete with foreign entities who don't have the abusive tax systems using American workers. That's a recipe to make sure we don't have American jobs or American corporations.

That whole Corporate fleecing nonsense is nothing but socialist propaganda aimed at destroying industry. The problem in America is NOT the Corporations--it is the politicians. That's not to say that some Corporations haven't done harm (Exxon for instance). Corporations grow our investments and provide us jobs and giving them tax breaks helps everyone.

Just my two cents.

New

Edited March 29, 2010 by Newarcher

[Orion_70]

I think that's a very short sighted argument.

The reason corporations are locating overseas is because the government of the US has decided to make it all but impossible for a Corporation to locate employees here. If you have to pay $60,000 on average for an employee's salary and healthcare benefits and administrata and extra taxes for US workers and can find someone in Mexico or India for $20,000....wouldn't you?

From a business standpoint absolutely, but if the tax advantages weren't there (put in place and lobbied for by those same corporations and corrupt politicians) it wouldn't be advantageous to begin with. I don't agree with Unions strong arming companies, and am about the most anti union person there is. I also don't think that the CEO's and other C level people in charge of these corporations should be paid the compensation they are at the expense of American workers.

Until we cut the budget so that we can avoid sinking, we are in trouble.

Again, Correct. . but, you also need to close the loopholes that allow those corporations to shelter that money instead of paying taxes on it.

Until we can change the tax system to where creating jobs here in America is competitive, we are done.

Again correct! One way to do that is also to close the import tax loopholes though!

According to your argument, we are going to try to make American companies compete with foreign entities who don't have the abusive tax systems using American workers. That's a recipe to make sure we don't have American jobs or American corporations.

Well, lets see here, those foreign companies are headquartered in the US but exempt from taxes until it's brought back in to the US,(or never if it's not) so in your previous statement about changing the tax system to create jobs in America well, close the loophole and it's not advantageous anymore.

That whole Corporate fleecing nonsense is nothing but socialist propaganda aimed at destroying industry. The problem in America is NOT the Corporations--it is the politicians. That's not to say that some Corporations haven't done harm (Exxon for instance). Corporations grow our investments and provide us jobs and giving them tax breaks helps everyone.

You can't have one without the other until we change the lobbying system. The problem is the politicians paid for by the Corporations. Those politicians make the laws in favor of the corporations. I don't see how you say the corporations grow our investments and provide jobs and by giving them tax breaks it helps everyone. Let's see, Bank of America, Citi, Lehman, Chase ,laid off how many American employees and took how much money from the US government?

There's a lot that needs changing in this government from the lobbyist, tax system, and Unions.. They all play a part that got us in this mess.. I don't think we need to reform America, I think we need to get back to how it was formed...

Just my two cents.

New

I threw in a nickel

[Orion_70]

I think that's a very short sighted argument.

The reason corporations are locating overseas is because the government of the US has decided to make it all but impossible for a Corporation to locate employees here. If you have to pay $60,000 on average for an employee's salary and healthcare benefits and administrata and extra taxes for US workers and can find someone in Mexico or India for $20,000....wouldn't you?

From a business standpoint absolutely, but if the tax advantages weren't there (put in place and lobbied for by those same corporations and corrupt politicians) it wouldn't be advantageous to begin with. I don't agree with Unions strong arming companies, and am about the most anti union person there is. I also don't think that the CEO's and other C level people in charge of these corporations should be paid the compensation they are at the expense of American workers.

Until we cut the budget so that we can avoid sinking, we are in trouble.

Again, Correct. . but, you also need to close the loopholes that allow those corporations to shelter that money instead of paying taxes on it.

Until we can change the tax system to where creating jobs here in America is competitive, we are done.

Again correct! One way to do that is also to close the import tax loopholes though!

According to your argument, we are going to try to make American companies compete with foreign entities who don't have the abusive tax systems using American workers. That's a recipe to make sure we don't have American jobs or American corporations.

Well, lets see here, those foreign companies are headquartered in the US but exempt from taxes until it's brought back in to the US,(or never if it's not) so in your previous statement about changing the tax system to create jobs in America well, close the loophole and it's not advantageous anymore.

That whole Corporate fleecing nonsense is nothing but socialist propaganda aimed at destroying industry. The problem in America is NOT the Corporations--it is the politicians. That's not to say that some Corporations haven't done harm (Exxon for instance). Corporations grow our investments and provide us jobs and giving them tax breaks helps everyone.

You can't have one without the other until we change the lobbying system. The problem is the politicians paid for by the Corporations. Those politicians make the laws in favor of the corporations. I don't see how you say the corporations grow our investments and provide jobs and by giving them tax breaks it helps everyone. Let's see, Bank of America, Citi, Lehman, Chase ,laid off how many American employees and took how much money from the US government?

There's a lot that needs changing in this government from the lobbyist, tax system, and Unions.. They all play a part that got us in this mess.. I don't think we need to reform America, I think we need to get back to how it was formed...

Just my two cents.

New

I threw in a nickel

[Orion_70]

I think that's a very short sighted argument.

The reason corporations are locating overseas is because the government of the US has decided to make it all but impossible for a Corporation to locate employees here. If you have to pay $60,000 on average for an employee's salary and healthcare benefits and administrata and extra taxes for US workers and can find someone in Mexico or India for $20,000....wouldn't you?

From a business standpoint absolutely, but if the tax advantages weren't there (put in place and lobbied for by those same corporations and corrupt politicians) it wouldn't be advantageous to begin with. I don't agree with Unions strong arming companies, and am about the most anti union person there is. I also don't think that the CEO's and other C level people in charge of these corporations should be paid the compensation they are at the expense of American workers.

Until we cut the budget so that we can avoid sinking, we are in trouble.

Again, Correct. . but, you also need to close the loopholes that allow those corporations to shelter that money instead of paying taxes on it.

Until we can change the tax system to where creating jobs here in America is competitive, we are done.

Again correct! One way to do that is also to close the import tax loopholes though!

According to your argument, we are going to try to make American companies compete with foreign entities who don't have the abusive tax systems using American workers. That's a recipe to make sure we don't have American jobs or American corporations.

Well, lets see here, those foreign companies are headquartered in the US but exempt from taxes until it's brought back in to the US,(or never if it's not) so in your previous statement about changing the tax system to create jobs in America well, close the loophole and it's not advantageous anymore.

That whole Corporate fleecing nonsense is nothing but socialist propaganda aimed at destroying industry. The problem in America is NOT the Corporations--it is the politicians. That's not to say that some Corporations haven't done harm (Exxon for instance). Corporations grow our investments and provide us jobs and giving them tax breaks helps everyone.

You can't have one without the other until we change the lobbying system. The problem is the politicians paid for by the Corporations. Those politicians make the laws in favor of the corporations. I don't see how you say the corporations grow our investments and provide jobs and by giving them tax breaks it helps everyone. Let's see, Bank of America, Citi, Lehman, Chase ,laid off how many American employees and took how much money from the US government?

There's a lot that needs changing in this government from the lobbyist, tax system, and Unions.. They all play a part that got us in this mess.. I don't think we need to reform America, I think we need to get back to how it was formed...

Just my two cents.

New

I threw in a nickel

[Newarcher]

I like your nickle, we aren't far apart.

The slippery slope of telling CEO's how much they can make is this....there's always someone below you that makes less and thinks that you are overpaid. Remember when the politicians were complaining about the amount CEO's were making....Charlie Rangel said that the dems were getting ready to extend those pay restrictions to all US companies. I want my abilities and value to determine my pay, not some politician.

I disagree completely with you on the union part. I am THE UNION HATER. You can be second, but you can't unseat me. Some people have no choice but to join a union to have a job but most union thugs make me sick and their leadership are thieves. I have so very little respect for union thugs and leaders that I don't differentiate most from some thug holding someone up at an ATM. Thieves.

I don't necessarily disagree with you on the overseas jobs part. But I believe that you are attempting to treat the symptoms (companies needing to send jobs overseas to compete and provide the ROI we demand lest we sell our shares and buy something else to go in our 401-K). Fix the tax system and we can bring those jobs and that money in overseas investments back home.

I am not saying corporations are perfect but they provide jobs and their stocks are in our 401-K's. There are people out there that would run every single corporation out of business if they could--extremely short sighted. Most people work for someone and I would rather see a tax break given to a corporation so they can invest than I would to see it thrown down the rat hole of welfare (targeted tax break that is, not one that goes into mgmt's pockets). That's how you grow a middle class.

When I say that we need to reform America, what I am meaning is that we need to get it back to what it was when we started. We have come so far in the last six months that getting back to capitalism would be reform.

Hey, good discussion. Good thoughts.

New

[wtnhunt]

Lot of good points, and yes a good discussion. Agree with most of what is being said. No doubt greed is responsible for a lot of the problems we are seeing today on different levels and in different aspects. From corporations to unions, greed and excessive abuses are way too common, but so long as a company or union operates inside the limitations of the law the gov't should not have any say and it is that company's right to let their operators run it in the ground if they so chose.

Just my opinion for what its worth, but the government/politicians have no right capping salaries or getting involved in private business matters outside what should be reasonable taxation, that is unless it is a company that they/WE have saved and then they have every right to tell that company how much a ceo can take or make. If those companies and or their ceo's don't like it it is quite simple, they don't or did not have to take taxpayers dollars. For those companies that have already taken taxpayers dollars, they should have to pay it all back with interest.

I am not saying corporations are perfect but they provide jobs and their stocks are in our 401-K's. There are people out there that would run every single corporation out of business if they could--extremely short sighted. Most people work for someone and I would rather see a tax break given to a corporation so they can invest than I would to see it thrown down the rat hole of welfare (targeted tax break that is, not one that goes into mgmt's pockets). That's how you grow a middle class.

Problem from my perspective we are facing at this very point in time is that the dems/libs don't want to grow the middle class, I don't believe it is a matter of them not trying to, they simply don't want to and it shows, pretty apparent with their actions. They want to grow the gov't reliant class of people, that is the point of socialism and afraid that is what we are seeing happening.

[Orion_70]

I am not saying corporations are perfect but they provide jobs and their stocks are in our 401-K's. There are people out there that would run every single corporation out of business if they could--extremely short sighted. Most people work for someone and I would rather see a tax break given to a corporation so they can invest than I would to see it thrown down the rat hole of welfare (targeted tax break that is, not one that goes into mgmt's pockets). That's how you grow a middle class.

When I say that we need to reform America, what I am meaning is that we need to get it back to what it was when we started. We have come so far in the last six months that getting back to capitalism would be reform.

Hey, good discussion. Good thoughts.

New

I'd like to see that same tax break the corporations receive go to the private companies also. After all, they employ more than the corporations do but don't get the same benefits from the tax laws. Flat tax on all goods and services sold would be my vote with no loopholes (go Ron Paul)!

Our taxpayer money went to publicly held companies and institutions that took adverse risks, not private companies.. They received no help when the domino effect came. That, I have a problem with. Those companies should have been allowed to fail and the freemarket system would have taken care of the rest.

Half the reason this country was formed was because of taxation without representation. Now the representation is Corrupt and is paid for by the corporations, so it's basically useless for the common citizen.

I couldn't agree more though, we need to get back to the basics of why America was formed and how it was formed.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Orion_70

[gzilla45]

I agree that it would be nice to go back to the basics of what our country was founded on but I fear that we have strayed too far from those values to go back. We've become an entitlement nation. And while I don't think we will ever be as socialist as Europe, we will be a lot closer to it than I sure want to see.

I just read this weekend that John Deere, AT&T, and Cat are all being subpoenaed by Congress because of what they had said regarding Obamacare. This just irks me to no end. I hope they stand up to them and tell them nothing. Seems to me like they were speaking the truth.