Guest J_Owens_66 Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Anyone know where i can get spitzer bullets to reload with? Who makes them and what weights are they available in? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets I don't know of anyone who makes a "spitzer" for the 45-70. They are mostly RN or Flat Nosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_218 Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets Barnes Bullets makes them: http://www.barnesbullets.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J_Owens_66 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets They are awfully expensive though, like 13 dollars for 20 of them. I want maximum ballistics out of this cartridge, 250 is the lightest bullet made for it i think. What kind of ballistics could i expect out of it?Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_218 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets [ QUOTE ] They are awfully expensive though, like 13 dollars for 20 of them. I want maximum ballistics out of this cartridge, 250 is the lightest bullet made for it i think. What kind of ballistics could i expect out of it?Thanks [/ QUOTE ] Barnes bullets are very high priced. Not sure about what results you'll receive ballistic wise as I don't own a .45-70. I do have a .458 X 2" American built on a Remington M-722 action, and I use 40 grs/IMR-4198/300 grain Remington .458" bullets. You can load much heavier and use weights up to 500 grains but it will cost interms of recoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J_Owens_66 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets AJ, what kind of velocity would i get from 250 grain spitzer bullets? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets I don't really know, they don't make a 250 gr spitzer bullet. Their 250 is a flat point. The 300 and 350 gr are spitzers. I don't have the Barnes book to give you an answer on the velocity that is achievable with the 250 gr. All of my loading manuals start at the 300 gr bullets. A few books llist the 350 gr bullet at 2300 fps. The Hodgdon has the 300 gr bullet going 2500 fps. The problem is that most 300 gr bullets are not designed for that much speed. They will open way too fast and act like a varmint bullet. I would expect you can get 2500 -2600 fps with the 250 gr Barnes. Since the bullet is all copper it has a longer bearing surface so pressure would be similar to a 300 gr bullet. The other drawback is a low BC of the flat nose Barnes 250 gr. Their 300 and 350 gr bullets on the other hand are spitzers and should be sweet in the Ruger. A good dose of 4198 or RL-7 and watch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J_Owens_66 Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets Pushing these barnes bullets at that speed, would they open too fast? The 250 FN, the 300 Spitzer and the 350 Spitzer? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J_Owens_66 Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets Can you name some bullets that can take that kind of velocity for me AJ. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ronin Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets I'm wondering about the stability of a 250 gr bullet at those higher velocities in the standard 1-20 twist, which I assume it is. Could accuracy suffer somewhat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets The Barnes bullet will hold together. Personally, I would shoot the 350 gr Barnex X-Bullet in that bad boy. It should rock! If you crank that thing to 2200-2300 fps it will ruin the day of anything it hits. The trajectory should be decent enough for 250 yard shots too. In fact here are the numbers for a 350 gr Barnex X-Bullet going 2250 fps: sighted in 2" high at 100 yards 150 yards = +.8" 175 yards = -.7" 200 yards = -2.7" 225 yards = -5.4" 250 yards = -8.7" 100 yards = 3279 ft/lbs 150 yards = 2986 ft/lbs 200 yards = 2714 ft/lbs 250 yards = 2463 ft/lbs At 250 yards this combo will still knock the stuffins out of anything walking on this continent. Recoil is going to be stout though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J_Owens_66 Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets How bad is this thing gonna kick AJ? How many footpounds out of a Ruger Number 1 w/ a 3-9X40 Burris FF2 scope atop it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_218 Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets [ QUOTE ] How bad is this thing gonna kick AJ? How many footpounds out of a Ruger Number 1 w/ a 3-9X40 Burris FF2 scope atop it? [/ QUOTE ] Here's a table for you to calculate recoil: http://sst.benchrest.com/recoil.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun_300 Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets thats a cool link David! thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets [ QUOTE ] How bad is this thing gonna kick AJ? How many footpounds out of a Ruger Number 1 w/ a 3-9X40 Burris FF2 scope atop it? [/ QUOTE ] It's not as bad as I thought, it has approximately 37 ft/lbs of recoil energy. (350 gr bullet 2250 fps) For reference here are some popular combo's: A 9 pound .30-06 shooting 180 gr bullets has 19 ft/lbs. A 9 lb .300 Win Mag shooting 180 gr bullets has 32 ft/lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J_Owens_66 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets Thats quite a bit of recoil, what recoil pad do you suggest!! Thanks for all the answers and stuff AJ. Why do u suggest using the 350 grain bullet instead of the 300? This will be mainly used for deer, but also for moose and elk and bear when i take my trips up north. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets Any of the good quality pads will work fine. The Pachmayer Decelerator, Kick-Eez, Limbsaver, etc will all do a great job. Since you want high fps, the 350 gr is a better bullet. The 300 gr bullet is designed to expand at lower velotities of the trapdoor rifle. The No. 1 is the strongest commercial built .45-70 and it can push the bullet too fast for good penetration. The Barnes bullet would hold up as its hard to frag a solid chunk of copper. The 300 or the 350 gr bullet would work. You have to be careful on what 300 gr bullet you choose though. If you went with the Barnes X-Bullet, you are safe. A 300 gr hollow point is not a good choice at 2500 fps. Some of the 350 gr bullets by Hornady, Speer, etc are designed to be used in the .458 Win Mag for lighter game so they will stand up to the higher velocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest J_Owens_66 Posted February 26, 2005 Report Share Posted February 26, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets Thanks for answering all my ???'s on this tread AJ. And thanks everyone else also. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bronco_mudder Posted February 27, 2005 Report Share Posted February 27, 2005 Re: 45-70 Gov. Bullets In my trapdoor I prefer a 300 grain hollow point with 40 grains of IMR 3031. If I zero at 200, I have to aim about 11 inches low at 100 yartds. In my Ruger #1, I shoot a 350 grain Hornady round nose with 53 grains of IMR 3031, and with the same 200 yard zero, I have to aim about 7 inches low at 100. Using this load the recoil is resonably acceptable for me, but by bumping up the load only 3 grains it starts to hurt fast after shooting at the range for a bit. I use both these loads with great succes on deer (the trap door, and first #1 load), and also have proven the Ruger to be extremely deadly on moose with the 53 grain load. It will blow through brush like I've never seen any other bullet do. The one bull moose I shot with the Ruger was standing behind some thick willows about 175 yards away. I lined up on him and touched off the shot. The bullet plowed through the brush, hitting the bull in the shoulder blade penetrated right through and came to rest against the hide on the far side. He took a couple of steps and collapsed dead on the spot. I was impressed with the performance. Using a gun like a 45/70 isn't about high volocities, it is more about energy. Trying to find a bullet that will hold together and at the same time expend most of it's energy in the animal is the most important thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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