30 30 Has killed more deer than any other.

[bowana]

Its really hard telling if the comment really means "The lever action rifle" and not the cartridge. I do remember watching Curt Gowdy narrate "The Rifleman" (was a series of VHS tapes "The Bow Hunter, In Pursuit of the King-King of the North series) and during the show he talks about the market hunters of the late 1800's. One market hunter by the name of "Chase Benjamin from Alpena, MI" shot 2796 deer. His photo is shown in the program along with his rifle and his shell belt. I believe it may be a Winchester model 73. Judging from the shell loops, it looks as though it is a 44-40 or 38-40. Someone (me included) should do some research on this (hint...it would make a great school project). I'm not so inclined to believe that comment is even close to being factual. In the early 1900's, the whitetail nearly became extinct. It was estimated in 1885 that the entire deer population in the US was only 350,000. I believe today there are over 20 million deer in the US. Just....maybe the "lever gun" can hold that title, but the thuty-thuty....NO WAY! I know a lot of Marlins and Winchesters were sold, but I'm inclined to think that the bolt guns (a lot of '06 Springfield rifles came home from the wars) were in use out west during the 50's-70's. There were not a lot of deer east of the Mississippi until late 70's early 80's. By the way my Remington model 700 chambered in 7mm Remington Ultra Short Mag (160 grain Nosler Accubond) is my favorite deer rifle (for today anyway).

[m gardner]

Its really hard telling if the comment really means "The lever action rifle" and not the cartridge. I do remember watching Curt Gowdy narrate "The Rifleman" (was a series of VHS tapes "The Bow Hunter, In Pursuit of the King-King of the North series) and during the show he talks about the market hunters of the late 1800's. One market hunter by the name of "Chase Benjamin from Alpena, MI" shot 2796 deer. His photo is shown in the program along with his rifle and his shell belt. I believe it may be a Winchester model 73. Judging from the shell loops, it looks as though it is a 44-40 or 38-40. Someone (me included) should do some research on this (hint...it would make a great school project). I'm not so inclined to believe that comment is even close to being factual. In the early 1900's, the whitetail nearly became extinct. It was estimated in 1885 that the entire deer population in the US was only 350,000. I believe today there are over 20 million deer in the US. Just....maybe the "lever gun" can hold that title, but the thuty-thuty....NO WAY! I know a lot of Marlins and Winchesters were sold, but I'm inclined to think that the bolt guns (a lot of '06 Springfield rifles came home from the wars) were in use out west during the 50's-70's. There were not a lot of deer east of the Mississippi until late 70's early 80's. By the way my Remington model 700 chambered in 7mm Remington Ultra Short Mag (160 grain Nosler Accubond) is my favorite deer rifle (for today anyway).

There's no way to accurately tell which cartridge killed or wounded more deer in history but I had heard that the 44-40 was thought to hold that title, but it could not be substantiated. The rifle that is to considered to have killed the most game I believe is the 303 British just becuase it went everywhere in the world.

[BrotherBadger]

There's no way to accurately tell which cartridge killed or wounded more deer in history but I had heard that the 44-40 was thought to hold that title, but it could not be substantiated. The rifle that is to considered to have killed the most game I believe is the 303 British just becuase it went everywhere in the world.

Very underrated rifle, IMO. I shot a few deer with one(old Mark IV i think, 1944), those suckers are sweet.

[RangerClay]

I'm not bashing the 30-30.

When you say the cartridge is "mediocore at best", yes you are.

So my final question for all of you supporters of the 30-30. The buck of a lifetime is standing 200 yards across an opening in the woods. What would you rather be carrying. An open sighted Winchester 94 in 30-30 or a Remington 700 in 270 with a nice 3 X 9 scope on it.

You cannot compare a scoped .270 to an open sighted 94. They are two different guns for completely different situations. Its like comparing T/C Pro Hunter to a flintlock. With that statement you are comparing rifles not cartridges. Would YOU take that same shot with an open sighted .270?

Your 200 yard shot is not something that every hunter see's in their lifetime. I've been deer hunting for almost 30 years and I've never seen a shot at a deer at 200 yards. Some hunters hunt prairies, some hunt big open lots in Sask., some hunt mountain tops. Then I would want a .270 for those shots. Your situation of shooting 200 yards through hardwoods is really not a good example because I doubt even you could fish a bullet through 200 yards of trees and limbs, let alone see horns. If I did see a buck at 200+ yards, I would not be upset because I couldn't make the shot. I would be upset that I wasn't a better hunter that could get closer. Better luck next time.

Now if you had started this debate 5 years ago I would have agreed with you on certain points but with the newer bullets out there for the 30-30, it has become an even better killing machine. I will tell you right now, if I saw a buck at 150 yards or a little more I could paste that deer just as easily as you can. Plus if something should go wrong and I hit a limb, (we have all done it) I can get back on that deer's shoulder a lot faster because I won't have near the recoil that .270 will have. Right now I am shooting the fairly new pointed LeveRevolution bullets and they have made my 30-30 an even better killing machine. It is flat shooting bullet that drives home big holes (see below).

And YES! My Marlin 30-30 rifle HAS killed more deer that anyone else in my camp.

Edited May 9, 2010 by RangerClay

[m gardner]

That's a pretty little buck. Love the picture.

Mark

[bowana]

I don't know about this "thuty-thuty" debate......BUT THAT PICTURE MAKES ME HUNGRY!! Just the right size for tender roasts. Great job!

[Jeramie]

Ill step in this pile.....

The .30-30 is marginal when compared to more modern cartridges. However, that does not make it obsolete. Saying the round has seen its last days (or even implying) is like saying someone shouldn’t hunt with a recurve because there are monster compounds out there.

When set neck to neck with just about any popular round (.243, .25-06, .260, .270, .280, .308, .30-06, 7MM, and any mag round) the .30-30 can’t compare. However, it is still a deer killing machine. The fact is that you are shooting the same bullet as a .308 or .30-06 just at slower velocity. Poked through the boiler room of a deer it will get the job done, and very efficiently.

The trick comes in knowing your equipment and its capabilities. It’s like comparing a .30-06 and a .300. Both rounds are deadly and pretty much neck to neck….. until 300 yards. Then the .300 starts to shine. Is that to say the .30-06 is marginal and a poor round? Heck no. Many will agree that it is likely the best round EVER created. However, if you pickup a .30-06 and start lobbing lead at a deer pushing 500 yards you’ve exceeded its effective range in most cases (baring the ability of the shooter).

The same goes for the .30-30. I personally am not a huge fan. There are other choices out there but they won’t kill a deer any deader. The reason I lean away from the round is that a 200 yard shot is very possible for me every season. I typically close the deal much closer but the reality is that some of our fields are hundreds of yards long. I don’t want to limit my shots. If I were hunting closed conditions (say inside of 100 yards) I wouldn’t have any problems carrying the old lever out. But the reality is I hunt few places where that is the case so it stays in the safe.

Everything is conditional or situational. To make assumptions about any object, situation, or anything of the sort without stepping back and taking a wide view is asinine. Sure there are cases where the .30-30 is too little gun but then again I wouldn’t carry a .300 into the bush for cape buffalo either. Any argument beyond that such as faster acquisition, setup, weight, etc. is situational too. Almost every round is chambered in a large variety of rifle types and actions. The caliber itself does not lend to faster shooting, faster aim, etc. Hunting in general is conditional and having a certain caliber does not make you a better shooter, a better shot, or more ethical (within certain boundaries). The fact of the matter is that we, as hunters, should strive to be as ethical and prepared as possible and not leave the margins to the equipment….

Just my $.02

[bfletch7441]

I hunt with one every year, and leave my 7 mm in the safe.

Ben

[Heavy Metal]

Ill step in this pile.....

Just couldn't stay out of it could ya!!???:poke:

[Strut10]

Ballistically speaking the 30-30, currently is at best a mediocore cartridge.

I disagree.

I believe the crux of this discussion is the killing of deer. The 30-30 is in no way marginal or mediocre in power for the efficient killing of deer when used within its effective range.

I'll be the first person to take a rifle generating 4000 or 5000 or more ft/lbs of muzzle energy afield after a 150 lb. whitetail. I'll also be the first to admit that deer die easy.

Keep shots under 250 yards with a 30-30 (which is where the vast majority of deer are killed) and the animal won't know whether it was properly hit with a 30-30 or a .300 RUM.

And I might also agrue that there is a bit of "magical ability" in a slow-moving, heavy slug.

It has limited range, is marginally accurate, and falls in the middle when it comes to muzzel energy. Considering all this makes it a marginal deer killer.

Every cartridge has a "limite range". Some are just farther than others. Like I said before......within the yardages that the vast majority of deer are killed, the 30-30 is not limited.

So far as accuracy is concerned, I believe you are referring to the rifle and not the 30-30 round itself. If you are talking about the cartridge itself, I'm

not sure where your evidence is coming from. But there are craploads of dead deer that would argue the marginality of the old thutty-thutty's lethality.

[Jeramie]

I'm

not sure where your evidence is coming from. But there are craploads of dead deer that would argue the marginality of the old thutty-thutty's lethality.

[dbHunterNY]

I know my first buck and deer that I ever took was with a lever action 30-30. Whether it's taken more than any other caliber I'm not so sure. I will say that every buck I've taken has been within a 30-30's range.

[92xj]

The 30-30 has killed the most deer over any gun and is the best deer gun there is! Nothing compares and you are less of a hunter if you don't use one. Why change something that's proven. It will always rule and be superior to all hunting rifles.

[hunterbobb]

The 30-30 has killed the most deer over any gun and is the best deer gun there is! Nothing compares and you are less of a hunter if you don't use one. Why change something that's proven. It will always rule and be superior to all hunting rifles.

Now your just baiting me. You can't really believe that.

:gun2:

[Jeramie]

Now your just baiting me. You can't really believe that.

:gun2:

Thats what im guessing too....

[redkneck]

Ill step in this pile.....

The .30-30 is marginal when compared to more modern cartridges. However, that does not make it obsolete.........

When set neck to neck with just about any popular round (.243, .25-06, .260, .270, .280, .308, .30-06, 7MM, and any mag round) the .30-30 can’t compare.

That's crazy!

30-30 ROCKS!!!

[92xj]

Now your just baiting me. You can't really believe that.

:gun2:

No bait, just opinions.

[pointing_dogs_rule]

Yeah, now we're comparing scoped guns to open sights. I get your point, but by the same token, I'd prefer my 300 WBY over the remington in your example, but I'm not going to knock your gun in the process...

But... let me turn the tables.... Give me a 40 acre block of 3-5 year old pine plantation to walk out, and I'll actually take that model 94 over the 270, it's superior for quick shots at really close range.

I've got a lot of different caliber rifles, and I like to think that each has it's own little niche that it fits. Maybe I'm just sentimental about my old model 94.

Great points! I also grew up with the model 94 in the woods in Pennsylvania. I would take that open sight gun over any scope high power rifle for those quick shots in the thick woods.

Comparing a scoped high power at distances of 200 yards is comparing apples to oranges.

Last, some of us like the challenge of getting close enough for "that shot". Guess that's why I like bow hunting... "it's not about how far but about how close". To each his own but shooting something at 400 yards just doesn't trip my trigger.... if you like that than that's great.

The gun below has taken many whitetails in it's lifetime... it was my dad's and then mine. (NOTE: it has not taken a deer in 30 years, but I still cherish that gun).

good luck to all

the dog

Edited May 20, 2010 by pointing_dogs_rule

[redkneck]

The gun below has taken many whitetails in it's lifetime... it was my dad's and then mine. (NOTE: it has not taken a deer in 30 years, but I still cherish that gun).

good luck to all

the dog

I couldn't have said it better myself bud. Makes me want to get mine out this year and pop a hole in one for old time sake. She hasn't sounded off in 25 years, but like you I dearly cherish the old 94.

[Doc]

Great points! I also grew up with the model 94 in the woods in Pennsylvania. I would take that open sight gun over any scope high power rifle for those quick shots in the thick woods.

Comparing a scoped high power at distances of 200 yards is comparing apples to oranges.

Last, some of us like the challenge of getting close enough for "that shot". Guess that's why I like bow hunting... "it's not about how far but about how close". To each his own but shooting something at 400 yards just doesn't trip my trigger.... if you like that than that's great.

The gun below has taken many whitetails in it's lifetime... it was my dad's and then mine. (NOTE: it has not taken a deer in 30 years, but I still cherish that gun).

good luck to all

the dog

Well, just look at the old critter. Who wouldn't fall in love with such a fine piece of history and class. I bought one years ago just to have it. We have not been allowed to use rifles for deer where I hunt, so I can't really offer an opinion on how it is for a deer rifle. But I will say that it is one of my more prized guns in my cabinet.

Doc

[Heavy Metal]

FYI

The .30-30 has mystical powers and is the best deer round ever made....still.....at any distance, in any condition. It's killed more deer deader than any other round because of its magical powers.

[hunterbobb]

FYI

The .30-30 has mystical powers and is the best deer round ever made....still.....at any distance, in any condition. It's killed more deer deader than any other round because of its magical powers.

Another guy thats baiting me. LOL. At least you get my point. I have no objections to the 30-30. It isn't my choice for a rifle for deer hunting, but I understand thousands of hunters love theirs.

What gets my blood boiling is the implication that it some how has magical powers and that is why it has killed so many deer. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

[Heavy Metal]

Another guy thats baiting me. LOL. At least you get my point. I have no objections to the 30-30. It isn't my choice for a rifle for deer hunting, but I understand thousands of hunters love theirs.

What gets my blood boiling is the implication that it some how has magical powers and that is why it has killed so many deer. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

It's all good brotha! Just having some fun! It's Thursday!!!! One more day!

:flex:

[redkneck]

FYI

The .30-30 has mystical powers and is the best deer round ever made....still.....at any distance, in any condition. It's killed more deer deader than any other round because of its magical powers.

+1

Another guy thats baiting me. LOL. At least you get my point. I have no objections to the 30-30. It isn't my choice for a rifle for deer hunting, but I understand thousands of hunters love theirs.

What gets my blood boiling is the implication that it some how has magical powers and that is why it has killed so many deer. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

Man they make meds for that

I don't care where you go, you're going to find folks that are truly in love with these guns, esp the old 94's..... what's not to love?

That being said, there's of course a reason I haven't shot mine in 25 years....

[hunterbobb]

I know it's all in fun. Nothin' like a good spirited discussion on guns. Except maybe a spritited discussion on,............. Oh wait this is a family oriented forum we can't talk about that here.

:chat: