Suggestions Please

[texastrophies]

I put my son in for a muzzleloader tag for mule deer in AZ. The only problem is I do not have a ML. So I am looking for something that we both will be able to use. AZ is pretty open as far as what they allow, scopes, inlines, etc.

In reading a few reviews I am seeing comments about the TC's not handling the heavier loads that you would need for elk very accurately and they are leaning towards CVA Accura. I had never even heard of it before then.

Any suggestions?

[jokostel]

All TCs are capable of take 150 grain "magnum" charges these days...

My 209x50 encore (IF I do my part, holds about 1.5-2in @ 100 yards)

which obviously is more than enough for 1-200 yard kills.

I've been looking at TCs Triumph as a second MZ, just because I want to fit one with a magnified optic... and leave my Encore blade sights only.

CVA, IMO is good equipment, but you also have to remember that you get what you pay for. Pickup a Omega Z5 kit, or a Triumph,

Hodgdon 777 FF grade, some Powerbelts 250-295 grain, or some Hornady SST 300 grain sabots....

Also, DON'T get into this "you need a special primer" nonsense. You don't. Blackpowder is so volitle, a cigarette lighter or a magnifiying glass will do the same dang job.

Just pickup a case of 209as, CCIs work great.... more or less because they have a little polymer(or whatever it is) cap over the primer..

supposedly helps prevent any water from getting into the priming compound.

[wtnhunt]

In reading a few reviews I am seeing comments about the TC's not handling the heavier loads that you would need for elk very accurately and they are leaning towards CVA Accura. I had never even heard of it before then.

Any suggestions?

First I heard of the TC's not handling heavier loads Jeff. We shoot a black diamond capable of shooting 150 grains of powder. Hoping to add another ml'er to our arsenal before this fall and likely it will also be a TC. The black diamond we have does perform best with 120 grains of pyrodex with teh sabots we are using, a lot of new bullets and more options with powder I have not yet tried though.

[FrontierGander]

i can highly recommend the CVA Accura! I love mine to death. For elk i would suggest Blackhorn209 Powder, CCI 209M primers and either a 338gr Powerbelt Platinum, 348-405gr Powerbelt or the best conical made. A 250 or 300gr Thor conical.

My elk load is 100gr Blackhorn209 with the 250gr Thor.

[MuzzleheadWayne]

I put my son in for a muzzleloader tag for mule deer in AZ. The only problem is I do not have a ML. So I am looking for something that we both will be able to use. AZ is pretty open as far as what they allow, scopes, inlines, etc.

In reading a few reviews I am seeing comments about the TC's not handling the heavier loads that you would need for elk very accurately and they are leaning towards CVA Accura. I had never even heard of it before then.

Any suggestions?

As far as the T/C muzzle loaders not being accurate with heavier loads I would like to share a bit of information. I shoot a T/C Omega, 110gr of 777 fffg, 300gr Harvester Scorpion PT Gold bullet/sabot, sparked with a CCI 209 primer. I get groups of less than an inch at one hundred yards. With many holes touching each other. I liked my Omega so much I bought another one and my daughter bought one also. The problem of accuracy that you may be reading about might not be the muzzle loader. I would like to suggest that you go and touch, feel and shoulder the different muzzle loaders that are available to you. Choose the one that both you and your son like. And remember "you get what you pay for". Don't expect a $150.00 muzzle loader to be too accurate. Same goes for a scope. If you are going to add a scope, I would suggest one with a ballistic drop reticle. Good Luck, have fun, and welcome to the wonderful world of muzzle loading.

[MuzzleheadWayne]

I put my son in for a muzzleloader tag for mule deer in AZ. The only problem is I do not have a ML. So I am looking for something that we both will be able to use. AZ is pretty open as far as what they allow, scopes, inlines, etc.

In reading a few reviews I am seeing comments about the TC's not handling the heavier loads that you would need for elk very accurately and they are leaning towards CVA Accura. I had never even heard of it before then.

Any suggestions?

As far as the T/C muzzle loaders not being accurate with heavier loads I would like to share a bit of information. I shoot a T/C Omega, 110gr of 777 fffg, 300gr Harvester Scorpion PT Gold bullet/sabot, sparked with a CCI 209 primer. I get groups of less than an inch at one hundred yards. With many holes touching each other. I liked my Omega so much I bought another one and my daughter bought one also. The problem of accuracy that you may be reading about might not be the muzzle loader. I would like to suggest that you go and touch, feel and shoulder the different muzzle loaders that are available to you. Choose the one that both you and your son like. And remember "you get what you pay for". Don't expect a $150.00 muzzle loader to be too accurate. Same goes for a scope. If you are going to add a scope, I would suggest one with a ballistic drop reticle. Good Luck, have fun, and welcome to the wonderful world of muzzle loading.

[Grady269]

2cents

For my 2 cents I think that the Encore is by far the best quality rifle as far as muzzle loaders go. I really don't think you have to shoot a 300-350 grain bullet for Elk, and you really don't for Mule Deer. I hunted Mule Deer last year in Utah, shot my normal 100 gr Pyrodex with Precision Rifle 250 gr bullet. It was not a problem at all.

[FrontierGander]

$150 with the right combo can out shoot a $1,000 muzzleloader.

[dbHunterNY]

I took months looking at muzzleloaders and I got a T/C Encore ProHunter. Not every ProHunter or muzzleloader of the same model will be as accurate as the other seemingly the same. However, I think they are pretty darn good and think you get what you pay for. All the little features really add up to make a great quality gun in my opinion. I won't say a my gun is better than a CVA, because I haven't shot a CVA. What I will tell you is on my parents farm, that's usually very windy, I can shoot MOA groups with my ml all day long at 100 yards. Out at 200 yards my groups are within a 6" circle, which would take care of an elk in short order. That's using a 250gr saboted bullet and 150gr of 777 powder. Any bigger load than that and you'd have to have some kind of custom made muzzleloader or a cannon to shoot at the elk with. lol I think either CVA or T/C would do just fine. I haven't heard anything otherwise.

Oh yea it only happened once so far, but I managed to put about four shots into a single hole with that load out at 100 yards. It was probably just a good day for me and given the conditions, but still that's one heck of a confidence booster of a gun.

Edited May 19, 2010 by dbHunterNY

[FrontierGander]

well seeing how most havent seen what a CVA Accura can do, heres some info LOL.

250gr Thor conical @ 100 yards. This was 1" center to center.

Now the Accura i shoot is unscoped during hunting season, i shot this 5 shot group @ 100 yards with 110gr Blackhorn209 with the 245gr powerbelt. That shot on the far right..... well, nothing more than the dummy behind the trigger. The first 4 aught to make up for it though! The scoped rifle is the new CVA Optima.

[FrontierGander]

CVA Optima, This rifle is probably the best bang for your buck at only $250 and comes with the quick release breech plug. Super shooting rifle!

250gr Thor conical @ 100 yards with 100gr Blackhorn209.

Now with an Easier to find powder in the Optima i shot this yesterday at 100 yards. These were shots #13 - 14 and 15. No swabbing the barrel between shots.

The Accura - New Optima and the New Wolf, These rifles come from the factory with a better trigger than you will get from the other rifle makers. The Accura is right at 2lbs with zero grit or creep. The others are just a bit heavier at 3lbs ( Lawyer trigger) Also no grit or creep.

These rifles as you can see are shooting CONICALS with extreme Accuracy. TC suffers in this area big time. In fact call TC and they'll tell you that their rifles are suited for sabots... CVA offers a money back guarantee if you feel that the rifle you got, isn't the most Accurate you've owned.

The Accura and especially the CVA Apex come with a guarantee of 1" groups or your money back.

Edited May 19, 2010 by FrontierGander

[Tecumseh]

My Encore Pro-Hunter didn't group well with a 150 gr charge, I'm now using a 110 gr charge of Blackhorn 209 with a Hornady 250 gr SST sabot and it will put 4 shots in the same hole at 100 yards and I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a Elk with this setup.

[texastrophies]

Thanks for all the info, keep it coming, I am reading and trying to learn.

[Tominator]

Don't know if I can help here much Chuck as I'm pretty new to the sport myself, but here goes:

First ML I got was a Black Diamond. Bought it off Bulldawg (Tom). I used it for one season, and it was a pretty good gun. The following summer my buddy Tom (Ohiobucks) let me know a buddy of his was selling his Encore because he got a new one as a gift. I offered him $400 for it and he took it, and I've never looked back, I love that gun.

I fiddled with a couple combinations when I first got it, but without a doubt, the combination that works best in my gun is 100 gr. of Pyrodex using a 150 gr T/C Shockwave. That combination makes cloverleafs at 100 yards no problem. I have the Nikon BDC on top of it and I really like that scope.

[quigleysharps4570]

$150 with the right combo can out shoot a $1,000 muzzleloader.

The person that put the time into that $150 set-up to get it to shoot is one I'd take to the field with me.

[johnf]

$150 with the right combo can out shoot a $1,000 muzzleloader.

+1 My dad had a NEF huntsman that would shoot 2" groups at 150 yards with an aimpoint 3moa red dot scope.

[muzzy1]

Dont worry about TC it will handle it.I shoot a encore and it is very,very acurate. There is a vidieo from lintchfield outdoors about this rife"maximizing your muzzleloader" ,sub 1inch at 100yds,1 inch at 150-200..Im not that good but i have stacked 3 right on top of each other at 100 and around 2 1/2 inch groups past 150...NEVER DOUGHT A TC , ya im sure there are some other ones that are good shooter to but i love my ENCORE.......

[tom wayman]

nothing against t,c guys but i have a c v a wolf n it is dead on at 100 with just the sights it came with.i have had lots of blk powders n they have all been c v a..my wolf only ran me 125 with tax..it is a mag rifle abel to hold 200 grain but no way am i going that high.100 grain is plenty.. but is up to the man what he wants ...i'm just saying

[wtnhunt]

nothing against t,c guys but i have a c v a wolf n it is dead on at 100 with just the sights it came with.i have had lots of blk powders n they have all been c v a..my wolf only ran me 125 with tax..it is a mag rifle abel to hold 200 grain but no way am i going that high.100 grain is plenty.. but is up to the man what he wants ...i'm just saying

Was not aware any ml'ers on the market were rated to charge with 200 grains of powder. I would strongly encourage checking with the manufacturer to be sure on that.

[Goinghuntin]

CVA Optima, This rifle is probably the best bang for your buck at only $250 and comes with the quick release breech plug. Super shooting rifle!

That's the ML I'm looking at and planning on buying as soon as I can save my pennies . I've never ever heard a bad thing about a CVA gun, either the top-of-the-line model or the very cheapest. And I really loved the tool-free breech plug, CVA made taking it out too easy

Nathan

[PA_RIDGE_RUNNER]

A muzzleloader of any brand can be made to shoot well. Unless the barrel length is 28 inches or more not all the powder in a 150 grain loading will burn inside the barrel. Muzzleloaders can be finicky about powder and bullet. You just have to do some range time and find what shoots best out of any muzzleloader. I do a whole lot of shooting and hunting with a muzzleloader. Much of my shooting is done with a flintlock but I also have an inline. My heaviest powder load in any of my rifles is 90 grains of real black powder. I get my best accuracy from my inline with 80 grains of 2f real black powder and a 300 grain Hornady XTP in a harvester crush rib sabot. Of course my objective when I am hunting is get so close I cannot miss rather than shoot and hope.

[Michiganbowhunter_SQ2]

Was not aware any ml'ers on the market were rated to charge with 200 grains of powder. I would strongly encourage checking with the manufacturer to be sure on that.

The CVA Wolf is only rated at a 150gr magnum charge...at least that is what the owners manual for it on CVA site says.

The only one I knew that were rate that high was one made by Ultimate Firearms.

Personally I think nothing beats a T/C. If you want interchangeable barrels, the Encore, to me, is the best out there. For just a straight up muzzleloader, I absolutely love the Triumph. I have tried 150gr in both and both seem to shoot it fine, but I prefer 100gr loads.

[RangerClay]

$150 with the right combo can out shoot a $1,000 muzzleloader.

Maybe so, but will they warantee it 10 or 20 years down the road?

My dad got his T/C in 1985. In 2009 he had a problem with it and they gave him a brand new ML. I will always buy T/C.

Tex, if you get a chance try shouldering a T/C triumph.

[dbHunterNY]

Maybe so, but will they warantee it 10 or 20 years down the road?

My dad got his T/C in 1985. In 2009 he had a problem with it and they gave him a brand new ML. I will always buy T/C.

Tex, if you get a chance try shouldering a T/C triumph.

...or you may also want to look at the t/c impact. it looks very similar to the triumph, but has a stock with removable spacer to adjust LOP by 1". Maybe it'll help the switch back and forth between you and your son. it's a whole different gun but I really like my t/c prohunter; can't go wrong with a T/C.

[FrontierGander]

Maybe so, but will they warantee it 10 or 20 years down the road?

My dad got his T/C in 1985. In 2009 he had a problem with it and they gave him a brand new ML. I will always buy T/C.

Tex, if you get a chance try shouldering a T/C triumph.

Yep! I have an old cva blazer and the CEO of the company warned me to check the nipple threads for any rust/pitting. If there is any, send it in and we'll replace it with a new model rifle. Keep in mind that i paid basically nothing for the rifle!! It was built in 1986