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Dawg

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As far as caliber is concerned I think the .22 centerfire is just too small. The state of WI allows it for deer hunting but I'd like to see that changed. Ballisticly it probably can get the job done but there is zero room for error in my opinion.

Yes, it will definitely work but there can be no error. Good point.

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No thread about hunting ethics is complete without somebody mentioning deer drives. What do you all think about that practice as far as being ethical? Any opinions?

Doc

Responses to this question out to be interesting. I'm not into deer drives at all in the most common definition of it. Not for ethical reasons but for safety reasons. It's one thing to get peppered with #8 shot in a dove field but another being hit by a shot from one out of a group of deer hunters with a firearm pushing through an area. When you have a group of people you never know who might get an itchy trigger finger.

With that said though I have done some where 1 or 2 people were slowly slipping around (still hunting) while others were on stand. Not exactly what you'd commonly refer to as a deer drive though.

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No thread about hunting ethics is complete without somebody mentioning deer drives. What do you all think about that practice as far as being ethical? Any opinions?

Doc

Most of my hunting life was spent doing deer drives. It wasn't until about 5 years ago that we stopped. When a drive is done correctly, it can be very rewarding. There are safety issues that you have to pay attention to. We normally had an average of 8 to 10 people go on our drives. We covered a vast area of riverbottom land, land that you couldn't get to unless you walked to it and I mean walk, sometimes up to an hour walk to get there. We did our best to stay away from other hunters that we knew where in the area, sometimes these hunters benefited from our drives as the deer would often slip past us and walk up on the other hunters in the area. My father and his friend knew this land like the back of their hands. We didn't place guys right on top of each other. We tried to stay at least 100 yards between each other. This was thick riverbottom land for the most part. Most of us hunted with shotguns, I later went to a 30-30. We knew where each other was at all times and wore hunter orange (well some of us anyways, there were a few old timers in the group who didn't). I mentioned in one of my replies a couple of pages back that I killed 3 bucks in one spot over the course of 4 years. All 3 bucks were standing still when I shot them. You would be suprised on how many deer don't just blow through the woods at lightning speeds. Most probably 85% to 90% of the deer that were pushed in my direction, were slipping through the woods. Often times if I wasn't paying attention, they slipped right by. Right off the top of my head I can remember 2 bucks and a group of does (all on different drives) putting the slip on me. I didn't see them until they were out of range.

So with that said, I don't see any ethcial problems with deer drives.

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Don't think deer drives would really be for me, at least not in large groups. Small pushes maybe. Gotta agree on what was posted above about the safety issues with drives. So long as they are done responsibly and within the regs then I would not really see where it would be unethical. When I say responsibly that goes for safety as well as the hunters using good judgement on knowing their limitations. I do not think it responsible for a hunter to unload on a running deer, think that may be yet another ethics discussion.

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Yeah, all deer drives are not created equal. I have done little two-man pushes that really amount to having one stander and one guy basically still-hunting through a patch of woods toward the stander. Generally speaking any deer that get pushed are not really running full tilt, but rather are just getting out of the way. It still is not my chosen way to hunt, but I will admit to having done this style of drive in the past.

And then there's the whooping and hollering gang attacks on a patch of woods that basically is just a circus where everybody shoots and then they go look to see what fell down. Running shots are generally the order of the day. When I see or hear those things forming up I generally run for my life out of that piece of woods. And I mean that literally.

I have seen some orderly, well planned and well executed drives that put getting a deer behind safety as a priority. I don't have a problem with those. It's not for me, but then who cares. My problem is that for me hunting is me against the deer, and nobody gets my deer for me. I don't want any help. I don't want to be part of a pack trying to take down the deer. I just want to go out there and do my own thing and then take whatever credit or blame that results. I don't want "my share" of the burger, steaks and roasts, and I don't want the party atmosphere that goes along with it all. When I want the comraderie of a gang of hunters, I will take part in that back at camp, or in our kitchen before or after the hunt. That's just a personal view and attitude. Other people can do whatever they want and I don't care as long as I don't wind up innocently and accidentally finding myself on stand in the middle of one those circus-style drives. When that happens, there is only one thing to do ...... find a big ol' tree and hug the ground behind it.

Doc

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I've got mixed feelings on it. Years ago, there was nothing funner than pushing out a corner after a morning hunt. As the years went by we got to be much choosier on the antlers, so shooting bucks on the run got to be risky. This took all the fun out of it. I also remember a drive when I was about ten years old where I was sitting on a fire lane listening to drivers coming. I saw the pine straw rustle in front of me just before the sound of a 12 gauge. It happened twice just a few feet in front of me before I realized what was going on. I hit the ditch after that. It was a responsible drive, everyone in orange, but your risk factor does go up exponentially when doing drives like that. I would way rather walk out a cutover with no standers and just shoot on the jump, it's way safer and a lot of fun.

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With that said though I have done some where 1 or 2 people were slowly slipping around (still hunting) while others were on stand. Not exactly what you'd commonly refer to as a deer drive though.

That's a lot what my Dad and I do. He'll usually sit on the end of the timber while I slowly stalk stalk through it. We both always know exactly where each other are, and usually we can see each other.

I would way rather walk out a cutover with no standers and just shoot on the jump, it's way safer and a lot of fun.

When my Dad and I don't set up on a specific point that's usually what I do. I love creeping through the brush and catching a glimpse of the deer before he sees me. Almost all of my last deer were shot at or under 50 yards while he/she was completely unawares of me. That's what hunting is about to me. Getting as close as you can, not shooting as far as you can.

Nathan

Nathan

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There are roumors that the AG&F (Arkanasas Game and Fish) are talking about requireing a hunter orange drape over all enclosed stands less than 6' off the ground. Not sure how I feel about that. Of course I don't think deer can see the orange.

Imagine the shots from space....lol:1eye:

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I've only ever seen dogs run across fence lines once. I don't deer hunt with dogs, and it's illegal in Iowa anyway. But were it legal, I'm sure dogs could be taught to keep in a confined area just as they are when hunting birds.

Nathan

You assume that dog runners want to hunt legally and ethically.

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Thank you Corey. John that would be like me sayin you're a panzy just because you're a band director.

But if you assume that I was and with the average band dirctor. If you did, you would be right. I am the exception, just as the legal dog hunter in Arkansas would be the exception.

Arkansas Game and Fish has more complaints on Dog runners trespassing than all other hunting related violations.

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But if you assume that I was and with the average band dirctor. If you did, you would be right. I am the exception, just as the legal dog hunter in Arkansas would be the exception.

Arkansas Game and Fish has more complaints on Dog runners trespassing than all other hunting related violations.

Wow! those are some pretty strong words. Legal dog hunters are an exception? Sounds like those people are pretty bad critters.

Can't we all just get along? ....... lol. :drink:

Doc

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hunting inside fenced properties is unethical in my eyes. That is not fair chase.

Its my believe anyone with this broad opinion has not hunted in one of the 20,000 thousand acre high fenced areas in Africa. I think the question must be met with additional details about the size of the area.

Edited by riverBottom
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Its my believe anyone with this broad opinion has not hunted in one of the 20,000 thousand acre high fenced areas in Africa. I think the question must be met with additional details about the size of the area.

I guess, and this is just me, that if I were to hunt an animal, no matter how big the fenced area was, I'd feel like I was hunting a caged animal. Just me though.

Nathan

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I think a lot of the high fence controversy is more emotional than fact-based. I suspect that those of us who have never hunted one of the larger fenced ranches might just be a bit shocked at how it's not as easy as we imagined. Of course we would have to actually go ahead and do it before we knew for sure, but I think it is a lot like many things...... our imaginations get a bit carried away when we picture such things.

Having said all that, I'm sure there are some high fenced operations that simply boil down to what has been called "canned hunts", where the animals are basically domesticated livestock. So it is not merely the presence of the fence that determines fair chase. It's just another one of those common sense issues where there is no simple definitions.

Doc

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