a change for the better

[sskybnd]

ark has changed some of the regs for this year,

one is i have a lease in area 16, we used to be able to harvest any buck, a button buck, a spike with less than one inch antlers, and any other buck that had 3 points on one side, this year they have adapted a 4 point rule and a 18 inch main beam rule. with this rule in place i see some nice mature deer being killed in a few years with some good racks.:gun2:

[Shaun_300]

That's great! Should definitely up the size of the racks in a few years.

Probably will have a few less hunters too who are ticked off with the new rule.

[johnf]

Nope, not in that area. They'll just be dragging them out of the woods faster can covering them with a tarp.

[redkneck]

Well some folks will still be breaking the rules, but hopefully as a whole you'll have a better herd in a few years. MS went to new A/Rs last year and I feel like it's going to be a good thing in the years to come.

[Doc]

How do you get the deer to hold still for that 18" measurenment before you shoot.....lol.

I do have a practical problem with beam width regulations, simply because I have a suspicion that there are a lot of hunters that wouldn't know 18" from 12" and there may be more than a few rotting carcasses in the woods because of "ground shrinkage". Also, there is the practical problem of actually seeing a rack, head-on so a judgement can be made. Most of the time I am purposely located perpendicular to trails so that deer are walking sideways and offering a broadside shot. Doesn't always work that way, but that's the set-up that I find gives me the best opportunities at a good shot selection and a vital hit that offers the best chance for quick humane kills. Also in certain types of brushy terrain, shooting lanes can be narrow limiting the time that the buck is in sight. So, in my case, I have to get the buck to turn his head toward me so I can see what the spread looks like. I probably should mention that I also like to shoot unalerted deer (especially with a bow) for obvious reasons. So, it goes without saying that a lot of good legal deer would have to be passed up because there would be no opportunity to safely judge antler spread. Maybe that's how the bucks will get older. Nobody will dare shoot half of them because they don't get a clear view of the spread ..... lol. That sure would work!

Another point too is that not all mature deer have wide spreads on their antlers. I have seen plenty of nice bucks that have a whole lot of long tines, and a very high rack, that have grown with a narrow spread.

Doc

[sskybnd]

i see what your saying doc. it would be hard to judge an 18 inch spread from a 16 incher at 50 yards or better, texas did it a few years ago and the hunters were up in arms also about how to judge a legale buck without running it down and getting a mesurement on it. and tha game wardens werent giving them any slack on it either, i dont know about the rotting carcasses, i hope there not many if any but i would hope they would pass on it if there not sure he'l just get bigger next year, as for the deer that have nice racks but are narrow, in my opion that would be a cull deer, but i highly dought the state would see it that way, but if you want 4 points on one side and an 18 main beam than, takeing out the bucks that wont make it, to me would be the thing to do, but than thats why they have a youth hunt they can kill any buck..

[clrj3514]

A big deer can have less than a 18" spread.

[wtnhunt]

this year they have adapted a 4 point rule and a 18 inch main beam rule.

A big deer can have less than a 18" spread.

Are you talking 18 inch spread or 18 inch main beam length? Two totally different measurements.

[sskybnd]

18 inch main beam.. not spread

[redkneck]

We went to a 10" inside spread OR 13" main beam length (12"/15" in some parts of the state). For kids 15 and under, one of their three bucks can be any antlered deer.

[Prairiepredator]

I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a law like that placed here in Sask or at least some of the zones anyways. A lot of the bucks down here don't get the chance to grow very big.

[clrj3514]

18 inch main beam.. not spread

Yea I thought it was main beam but some of the guys got onto spreads.

[Doc]

Yes, normally when you talk about antlers and measurements, spread is the usual thing you are talking about. I guess I automatically assumed that was what was meant. However, the practicality of such a requirement is only marginally improved (if at all). I think we have all seen the impact that body size can have on estimates of rack size. To me it's just another opportunity to get a ticket for some vague and ambiguous restriction that is impossible to verify prior to shooting. Such a regulation also has the potential of resulting in rotting carcasses of deer left in the woods because of inability to make such crazy estimates accurately. Also, I must state the obvious that an antler is not a straight feature that can be seen in it's entirety. The curves add to the beam length and are features that cannot be seen in one dimension. Frankly, even though it too is easily subject to honest errors, hunters might have a better chance at getting a spread requirement more correct than a beam length rule.

I am not a huge fan of antler restrictions in the first place, but making the whole process as complex and inaccurate and easily subject to honest mistakes doesn't exactly improve the concept.

Doc

[suro25]

what if you get a genetically inferior buck that is mature and doesn't meet those standards?

[wtnhunt]

Judging a 15+ inch spread would not be too tough granted you had the opportunity for a good look at the animal, judging the beam length and deciding whether or not the animal has 18 inches or more of beam might not be quite as easy.

[Rhino]

I understand the reasoning since it's well documented that beam length is the best way to judge age outside of the hunter having the ability to judge age from body size.

However; for a state to adopt a combination of both a 4 point and 18" main beam rule is going too far in my opinion. Fine for individualy controlled private properties but not state wide rule. Our club has an either or rule of either a 14" spread or 18" main beam. Our rule is designed to protect all the 1.5, 2.5, and about 40% of the 3.5 year old bucks. State law for our area is either a 12" spread or 15" main beam and it's designed to protect all the 1.5 year old bucks. For a state to impose a law protecting all the 1.5, 2.5, and part of the 3.5 year old bucks just doesn't sit well with me. My concern for you is it won't sit well with a majority of the deer hunters and could cause a dramatic drop in your hunter ranks. JMHO

[Dawg]

Texas has had AR's in place in a lot of counties for a while now. The county I hunt went to AR's last year. We are allowed two bucks. One has to have a spread of 13" or bigger and the next has to be a spike. In either order. The GW's weren't cutting any slack last year, giving citations for spreads that were within 1". The only buck I saw last year was during bow season, he would have been a nice bow kill but didn't meet the AR.

There are those who will continue to outlaw hunt, there is no stopping that, but I hope these AR's pay off regardless.

[Doc]

My concern for you is it won't sit well with a majority of the deer hunters and could cause a dramatic drop in your hunter ranks. JMHO

This is my biggest problem with AR in general. The fact is that I am at the point where I set my own personal standards pretty high, but I have no desire to force my standards onto anyone else. Also, I don't want to be setting regulations that are so confusing and difficult to judge that every novice hunter (and even many old-timers)begins to fear that they will accidentally shoot an illegal deer. I think we are all aware of the alarming general reduction in hunter numbers nationally over recent years, and I think we have to be a bit careful about over-regulating and scaring and frustrating even more hunters out of our ranks with our regulation-happy attitudes and legislation. I really do believe that we can go overboard on this sort of thing and do permanent irreversible damage to hunting.

Doc

[sskybnd]

well i measured the deer i shot last year, so i guess it will have to look like him, his left beam was 18 3/4 and his right bean is 17 9/16

[clrj3514]

well i measured the deer i shot last year, so i guess it will have to look like him, his left beam was 18 3/4 and his right bean is 17 9/16

That's a big deer for the minimum!

[Doc]

That's a big deer for the minimum!

Getting a bit carried away with this AR stuff ..... eh? I think I knew this would happen. I dare say there are quite a few places where that minimum will never be met. And this may not be the end of it.

Doc

[Rhino]

Been doing some digging & can't find anything in Arkansas regarding this AR change for the 2110-11 season. My mistake thinking it was statewide before though. Looks like Zone 16 is a portion of 3 counties. Not very big either compared to some.

I did find where 3 WMA's in Arkansas were changing their antler restrictions as follows:

Freddie Black Choctaw Island WMA and Rick Evans Grandview Prairie WMA are going with bucks that have either a 15" minimum inside spread or a least 1 main beam 18" or more.

Moro Big Pine Natural Area WMA will be 12" minimum inside spread or a least 1 main beam 15" or more.

[Doc]

Been doing some digging & can't find anything in Arkansas regarding this AR change for the 2110-11 season. My mistake thinking it was statewide before though. Looks like Zone 16 is a portion of 3 counties. Not very big either compared to some.

I did find where 3 WMA's in Arkansas were changing their antler restrictions as follows:

Freddie Black Choctaw Island WMA and Rick Evans Grandview Prairie WMA are going with bucks that have either a 15" minimum inside spread or a least 1 main beam 18" or more.

Moro Big Pine Natural Area WMA will be 12" minimum inside spread or a least 1 main beam 15" or more.

I love it when they start putting all kinds of different restrictions all over the state. They make it so you have to hunt with a gun in one hand and a regulations book in the other. I like the idea of management being tailored to local conditions ..... that is the right way to do it effectively. But on the other hand, some of these states make hunting so complicated that you are almost bound to be innocently breaking one law or the other without even knowing it.

And is the herd really being managed better because of all these local variations? ........ I guess you have to hunt there in order to answer that.

Doc

[Rhino]

...some of these states make hunting so complicated that you are almost bound to be innocently breaking one law or the other without even knowing it.

Doc

I sure have to agree with you there Doc!

[mikebohio]

i dont like antler restrictions you purchase your tag you should be able to shoot what makes you happy. dont get me wrong i pass on young bucks but who am i to pass judgement on somebody who isnt looking to hang one on the wall. I also worry that antler restrictions can hurt the genetics of the heard by letting go an older deer with poor rack size and taking a younger deer that meets legal requirements. just my humble opinion.