The_Kat Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 I don't care if you respect me or not. I work hard for my money and am union proud. Those college graduates you speak so highly of.....let me enlighten you a bit. For starters I have a college education. I also have two years of training in my profession to do what I do. Uneducated? Untrained? Sorry but your talking outta yer butt there. Most of my friends....also college graduates are still living with their parents because they can't get jobs. The friends of mine who are working are in a union of some kind. It kinda makes me laugh and shake my head at how narrow minded some folks can be when it comes to issues. I think it's funny a non union person can sit online here and tell me union members are lazy/dishonest. Buddy I work 1200 miles from home 80-90 hrs a week for my paycheck. I don't see my family for weeks at a time to provide for them, and to earn the things I want. I work so we have health insurance. I'm not an Obama supporter who stands in welfare lines and asks for handouts...... I forgive those who have ignorantly posted in this thread....just know that as has been said, NOT ALL union is the same. Come put me and the way I make a living down to my face....just be prepared to eat your words when you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 What I see from most of the union workers is a dishonest days pay for doing the least amount of work possible...I stand by that statement!!! I spit! You Spit Norm...? Spit???... Never figured you'd say that about me or any forum member on here Union or NOT...WOW. I'll take the high road on this one...you'd spit huh???:poke:. I went through a 5 year apprenticeship, got a college education/ Assoc. deg (at night after work), make a decent wage for here in NYC, and bust my butt every single day I leave this home. I ain't living no life of luxury rolling in the dough. In my trade and all construction trades in NYC especially( the worlds largest market)...if you are not a good worker you don't work, period. I earn every penny I make, feel no guilt over it at all, and our Union is signing more contractors to working agreements. These contractors don't have to sign, they know they can draw at the drop of a hat from a large talent pool when they have work and lay off without issue when they have no work. My family is covered 100% medically(kids til 23 when in college), optically and dentally. Great salary. I have a two pensions, an annuity and a self funded 401K. All of my pension contributions are percentages of my gross wages. So the more I work, the better I do when I retire. So Norm...Tell me why I should bite this hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Unions are a dying breed I'm afraid. You're afraid? Unions are a big part of the problem. Not the people in the unions, but the leadership and their politics. I don't for a minute think the leaderships of any union really cares about the workers. They care about making money. How do they make money? Contriversy "Send us money so we can fight for your (fill in the blank). What unions do to train folks and fight for each other is great, but many of the leaderships policies and trying to keep getting more and more and making more and more has caught up with them. Why do you think we don't make anything here anymore? It's becuase companies can't afford to pay union prices, medical, and retirement benifits. Get rid of the unions and give fair wages and fair benifits and this country will return to it's glory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 But what about the people on the outside now that have no job because of scabs? What are they gonna do. They had the choice to work or not. They chose not, their employer still needs to make money. It's their company, if they need workers they have the right to hire them. It's called economics. If someone is willing to do the job for less they'll get the job. I'm building a house right now and I'm taking the low bid every time. That's how it works. In a world with 10%+ unemployment it's stupid to do ANYTHING to jeperdize your job. STUPID Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 I mean I understand other people need to make money as much as the next person, But this is not the way to do it. Yes, that is the way to do it. Find a job that someone else isn't doing. If I need money to pay my bills and I see a job is open, I'm not thinking for a second about the guy out on a picket line, I'm thinking about a paycheck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 before i got into the union i had no medical coverage no life insurance and no money. there is nothing wrong with making a fair wage for job. companies cry about losing money want to cut workers pay and bennifits while there executives make millions. people cant raise families on minimum wage with no medical. i understand that alot of people are laid off now but the surplus of willing workers doesnt mean companies should be able to under pay them just because they are desperate. unions help insure a fair wage. no union is perfect but ill take my chances. the union has been good to me so far. If union benifits were fair GM wouldn't have gone under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Teachers unions are the ones i don't like the most... seems they always take it out on the kids during the school year. they should not be allowed to negotiate during the school year and get it all done during the break. Hey as a teacher...................................uh, got to agree with you on that. I'm not stupid, I make good money working in the airconditioning 80% of the time and in the heat all the time in the winter. I'm not in the union because I don't agree with the AEA's politics and get my insurance elswhere because the $900 a month health insurance just doesn't seem like a great deal considering we get our own for $300. If the union here ever did a strike I would be at work doing my job. The kids and their parents are who I work for, not the union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Hey, I almost have my own page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Wow, this thread is getting some action! LOL My only issue with the whole subject is the derogatory term SCAB used to describe a worker that isn't union. Seriously?? so almost 90% of the work force are made up of people who don't deserve to work because they are not union? And to refer to the comment earlier about how we only get treated well at our place of emloyment is because of unions?? HA! I like to think i got were i am today because of my loyalty and work ethic thank you very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBow Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 My only issue with the whole subject is the derogatory term SCAB used to describe a worker that isn't union. Seriously?? so almost 90% of the work force are made up of people who don't deserve to work because they are not union? Mike, I believe the term "SCAB" refers to a worker who chooses to work in a location where there is a labour dispute such as a legal strike or lock-out. It does not refer simply to non union personnel, because as you have mentioned, there are a great many people who do not belong to a labour union, which is not the issue under debate I believe. Small business and many employers do not have labour unions representing their employees and get along quite fine and are not held in disregard whatsoever by any common sense thinking labour member. The term SCAB can also refer to a union member who for personal choice, has decided to cross a picket line while their fellow members are going without pay to strive for better working conditions, be it compensation or benefits oriented. It had been my experience and personal observations, that union members who opt to "SCAB" during a labour dispute, quite often experience short term gain, for long term pain upon the termination of the labour dispute. Many leave the work site after all is said and done due to ill feelings in the workplace after settlements are reached. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying it's a fact that happens. TBow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 It happens for sure. One finds out just how many friends he really had. Not many....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 I don't care if you respect me or not. I work hard for my money and am union proud. Those college graduates you speak so highly of.....let me enlighten you a bit. For starters I have a college education. I also have two years of training in my profession to do what I do. Uneducated? Untrained? Sorry but your talking outta yer butt there. Most of my friends....also college graduates are still living with their parents because they can't get jobs. The friends of mine who are working are in a union of some kind. It kinda makes me laugh and shake my head at how narrow minded some folks can be when it comes to issues. I think it's funny a non union person can sit online here and tell me union members are lazy/dishonest. Buddy I work 1200 miles from home 80-90 hrs a week for my paycheck. I don't see my family for weeks at a time to provide for them, and to earn the things I want. I work so we have health insurance. I'm not an Obama supporter who stands in welfare lines and asks for handouts...... I forgive those who have ignorantly posted in this thread....just know that as has been said, NOT ALL union is the same. Come put me and the way I make a living down to my face....just be prepared to eat your words when you do. Sorry to sound ignorant....I was only speaking from experience....but if you just want folks to speak who have not lived it, that's your perogative. I have a college degree too plus am certified to weld in 6 states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 I like cheese :eat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt or be Hunted Posted July 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 I like cheese :eat: What kind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkneck Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 What kind? All of 'em! I like a good sharp cheddar, box of saltines and some souse :eat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt or be Hunted Posted July 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 All of 'em! I like a good sharp cheddar, box of saltines and some souse :eat: I like hotdogs with cheese :eat: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Cheese is a must in venison stew.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted July 6, 2010 Report Share Posted July 6, 2010 Norm I don't doubt you have the experience but thats not the point here. Anthony and I are simply stating that not all unions are bad. Your statement was aimed at ALL union members....us included. And I'm sorry, but you haven't lived in our unions. So therefore you do not know what you are talking about. Not trying to be nasty, just watch who you decide to spit on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebohio Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 If union benifits were fair GM wouldn't have gone under. do you really belive that the union is what caused all gms problems. did you see what gm management makes. by the way gm is still in business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 I am 47 years old. I welded for more than 20 of that. Doubt what you will...Thats ok...I guess we should all be thankful when we have a job. I was raised up to understand that a job was a priveledge, not a right. If you did not like something about your job you could go to a foreman, sup, or owner and try to hash out your differenced. If you could not, you quit and got something else and many times it was better anyway. we will agree to disagree...that is life...so is the fact my mother is dying and I can't keep getting on here... I will check back from time to time but please, even if we agree to disagree or disagree to agree, we are all still friends and I love you all...please keep me in your prayers, I need them so very much right now. I had to do the hardest thing this morning and told my mother she is dying...I feel that maybe some of the things I may say in the near future could ne rough and dry so it may be best I don't try for now...just remember that I love you all! Norm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newarcher Posted July 8, 2010 Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 I like how the blue collar union types do not consider anyone with a desk job or a white collar to even be a 'true' worker. If they aren't turning a wrench or doing manual labor, it isn't a valid job. I don't hold such feelings against blue collar workers--we all provide a necessary service to our employer and nation. The OP never answered my question about who owns the job, the worker or the company. That answer is fundamental to the discussion here. I don't automatically have negative feelings towards union workers, just the union thugs and union management. You build a company up from the ground--sacrificing your time and money to do it--only to have a group of workers decide they can extort money from you. Rather than letting the free market decide wages and benefits, unions achieve it via duress. New Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunt or be Hunted Posted July 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2010 The OP never answered my question about who owns the job, the worker or the company. That answer is fundamental to the discussion here. The company? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted July 10, 2010 Report Share Posted July 10, 2010 Blah blah blah... I don't know about you all...union or not...if someone were to pay me to sleep...right up my alley! Carry on carring...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newarcher Posted July 11, 2010 Report Share Posted July 11, 2010 The company? Very true, many people miss that point. There are some very limited times when the unions have a good value--for instance when some of the old mine companies made people live in mine owned homes, shop in mine owned stores, and get paid with mine money that was only good in their stores. Captive audience. I prefer the free market where if an employer wants to pay minimum wage for a $15 per hour type job, he or she won't find any workers. If the workers are treated wrong, they leave. It works out to an equilibrium. I am a business owner and I can see how people hate the evil 'rich' yet those evil rich put the time in, sacrificed vacations and big screen tv's, drive old cars, risked their family's security, and sacrificed long and hard to get what they have. Most deserve it and more. To have workers come along and say "you can't operate your business until you give us what we want" is inherently dishonest. Now if the employer is demanding something unsafe, etc. that's a different story. I respect everyone who works hard and does an honest job. I would submit a question that if unions are so great for the worker and therefore (following) the greater economy, why isn't Michigan the most affluent State in the Union? As a young child I remember listening to my uncle proclaim the love of the union after he had been out of work for a year plus from a GM job....even as an 8 year old kid, I asked "why not just go out and get a new job?". Hey we can agree to disagree. Right? Hope things work out well for everyone involved. New Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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