The Crossbow Saga Continues

[redkneck]

It's potential for 'improvement' is relatively untapped, and design and mechanical enhancement will see it move from a trully limited range weapon. Bob

I can already see it coming out in the next Cabela's catalog:

[jbeck]

I have to chime in on this one, I have taken many many deer with a compound bow. I hate to show my age but when I started hunting with a bow I could use a release aid on targets, but I was not allowed to use a release when hunting. I started with a recurve too, and the outrage of bow hunters when compouds were allowed was basically the same thing I'm hearing here. Now we have release aids, compounds made of carbon with 80 percent let off, they also have the draw lock so people with disablities can shoot a compoud. We now use game cameras that can send a pic to your computer without entering the woods, in my day we sat in stand to see what was coming past. We use sent eliminating sprays, clothers, and soap. we use 4 whelers to access areas to far to walk, all of these things have changed hunting from when some of us started and most have never complained, my questions is can't we all get along. These arguments have been in my great sport for the 34 years I've been in it and it's wrong. I truly don't believe we can judge a fellow sportsman by the weapon he chooses to use in the lawful taking of a deer. I don't want to be told I'm not a christian because I belong to the Bretheran in Christ church and not the Babtist church, I don't want to be called a slob hunter because I choose to try to take a deer this year with a cross bow and not my Mathews. Heck in Pa we had an org. called the united bow hunter somthing or other that wanted to put stipulations on arrow weight that would basically eliminate carbon arrows with under 150 gr. heads. they were traditionalist and wanted everyone to accept the limits they did. We must be together on our sport, not split by technicallities. Sorry about any mispelled words, I don't have time to download the spell check.

[Ohiobucks]

I place a zero "accomplishment" value on any deer taken by an able-bodied hunter with a crossbow.

I bought my able-bodied 15 year old son a compound bow a few years ago, he never liked it. So I bought him a crossbow this past year, he really enjoys shooting it. I'm looking forward to sharing additional hunting time with him outside of the shotgun season this fall.

I don't care how you feel about crossbow hunters. I can tell you this, when my son shoots a deer this fall with his crossbow, there will be a huge sense of accomplishment felt by me as his father, and I'm sure he will be pretty excited himself.

Othmar Vohringer is a pretty smart feller....:yes:

[ruttinbuc]

archery season definitions can be and are being randomly bastardized

Could not agree more Doc! It is all about the money, the bottomline. As a matter of fact they have bastardized the very traditions of hunting for the green stuff.

[Ohiobucks]

Bingo!! There is my argument.

You don't want a crossbow on your propery...fine. It's your land, do as you see fit. But why can't I use one on mine? When did sportsmen start making decisions for other sportsmen?

About 20 years ago New York State banned the use of dogs to hunt bears. Personally I didn't see the need for dogs but when the bear hunters came looking for a petition signature to bring the dogs back I signed. Why would I do that? Because who am I to tell others how to hunt just because I don't agree with it. If they are getting outdoors and doing their thing then let them do it.

Joe, you and I are probably on the same "ignore" list.....

[Bob LeBlanc]

I can already see it coming out in the next Cabela's catalog:

Here ya go redneck...much more realistic...

http://www.tac15.com/tac15i.html

The video claims single hole accuracy at 50 yards.

When it was first introduced, Pete Shepley claimed 1" groups at 150 yards.

Yup...relatively "untapped"...

Bob

[Rhino]

Let's straighten out a few of those minor points. Since I was around back in the days of adoption of compounds, I can pretty well describe just what was accepted traditional archery equipment back then. I had a sight on my recurve long before the compound was accepted and it actually didn't function any different than the sights of today. There were people using releases although I never did (too cheap to spend the money). By the way the idea of a release goes all the way back to the "Turkish ring" used centuries ago. Today's generation seems to think that archery gadgets and inventions didn't begin until the advent of the compound bow.....lol.

As far as the reduced hold weight, That is the ONLY true difference between a compound and recurve or longbow. And from that one sole difference, people are now claiming the precedent has been set for the inclusion of crossbows into archery seasons. If you can make that wild leap, imagine what kinds of different equipment future generations will be able to justify using the same principles of precedent. As I said before, there will come a day when all hunters will be wondering just why there is a special archery season. Already I hear gunhunters questioning the reasoning behind our having a "special" season. The inclusion of a crossbow doesn't exactly bolster our case and the inclusion of who-know-what in the future based on the fact that archery season definitions can be and are being randomly bastardized, will continue to blur that reasoning for the special seasons. It's not like we don't already have muzzleloader hunters eyeballing the archery season here in NY.

Doc

I was around back in those days too Doc. I know some trad hunters used sights on their recurves...not on longbows though. The ones I knew that used them used single pin sights. I never did. Most of the trad hunters I knew back then didn't bother using sights either. Nobody I knew used a release aid except for a glove or finger tab. These days I know a couple of dozen trad only bowhunters and non of them use sights or release aids.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the only true difference. No recurve or longbow will deliver an arrow anywhere close to the speed a compound does. There's a big difference in effective range. If you want to argue some trad hunters can shoot effectively out to 40 yards I can name some compound hunters that say they will shoot effectively beyond 80 yards. There's probably more compound hunters that believe their effective range is beyand 60 yards than there are trad hunters that believe their effective range is out to 40. I've worn out this subject too much in the past. Y'all have fun with it. :beer:

Edited September 14, 2010 by Rhino

[buckee]

The fact is that crossbows, recurves and longbows were around long, long, long before guns were ever invented. So which category should the crossbow be in?

Let's put all the self pride in bow-hunting aside for a minute and just look at the reality of the weapon itself.

Yes, those 3 bows are all primitive weapons. The muzzle loaders are classified as primitive, and yet not near as primitive as the crossbow, longbow and recurve bows. All 3 were being used for hunting long before the compound bow. Although today's version of the crossbow is more like a compound version of it's primitive relative, as is the compound bows of today much different that it's primitive relative..

The crossbow most definitely doesn't belong in the primitive class along with muzzle-loaders, so where does it belong?

The gun-stock, was designed after the crossbow...not the other way around.

Crossbows have been legal here during bow season since day one, and there is no problem, other than the user has to know it's limitation, just like any other weapon.

Personally, I think some people just like making mountains out of mole-hills.

Let's go hunting, I say.

Edited September 14, 2010 by buckee

[redkneck]

Here ya go redneck...much more realistic...

http://www.tac15.com/tac15i.html

The video claims single hole accuracy at 50 yards.

When it was first introduced, Pete Shepley claimed 1" groups at 150 yards.

Yup...relatively "untapped"...

Bob

I've heard of them, but that's the first I've looked at them. 400fps with a 425gr bolt, 155lbs draw weight, AR lower, picatinny rail.......

That's a bad boy right there! And I'd go so far as to say it is a step above my old Fred Bear.

Wish I had one! But still like my bow season kept separate from X-Bow.

[elkoholic]

This silly argument will never go away so I guess I may as well chime in. Shooting a crossbow will never be like shooting a compound/recurve/traditional bow, irregardless of the propulsion method. Yes, I have shot a crossbow. The modern compound, in the hands of the right archer, can be accurate to 60 yards and beyond. The crossbow in the hands of a beginner is accurate to 60 yards and beyond, and that with no practice. That article is very biased. Try shooting a compound from a bipod or off a shooting rail in a tree stand.

Let's talk muzzle loader and shotgun seasons too. Originally short range weapons and the seasons and areas they are used in are often high density housing situations. Now increase the range of these weapons to 250 yards plus, thanks to technology, and what do you have.

Let's just have one season, any weapon, because the deer do not care how they are killed, and after all, it is all about the killing anyway. If it were just about being out in the woods we could just go for a walk. Traditions, who needs them.

[buckshot]

Right, this silly arguement will never end.My 2 cents, what do I care if my neighbor decides to use a crossbow instead of compound?Why should that bother me?

Lets all just quit worrying about what somebody else might choose to hunt deer with and just hunt!

[Adjam5]

How come no one is touching the FACT that with a crossbow, you do NOT have to draw in the presence of the animal ?

That in itself disqualifies it for archery season.

Point and shoot like a gun.

[Strut10]

Joe, you and I are probably on the same "ignore" list.....

Out of 6543 (as of this moment) members on this forum, I only have 3 on my "ignore" list.................... and none of them are you or Joe.

But keep it up....................

I never ignore someone because I disagree with him................even at a visceral level. You have to be a complete hole to earn that honor. Don't flatter yourself, yet.

[ruttinbuc]

Easy way out and a cop out. Whatever happened to challenge? Let everybody make the team. Give em all a trophy. Throw in a bucket of Come' mere deer while your at it.

Edited September 15, 2010 by ruttinbuc
slobbered all over the grammer...or was it the punctuation?

[Strut10]

Easy way out and a cop out. Whatever happened to challenge. Let everybody make the team. Give em all a trophy. throw in a bucket of Come' mere deer while your at it.

[Tominator]

Right, this silly arguement will never end.My 2 cents, what do I care if my neighbor decides to use a crossbow instead of compound?Why should that bother me?

Lets all just quit worrying about what somebody else might choose to hunt deer with and just hunt!

Best quote of the thread.

I'd challenge all of you that don't like the crossbow for reasons like "you don't have to draw the bow in the presence of an animal..." to go out and shoot one. They're not as easy as you think.

I used to think like some here about crossbows, but that was because the guy who got me into bowhunting was an elitist (still is). Over the years, after watching and becoming friends with a few guys that use a crossbow, then almost being forced to use one myself after my pancreas surgery, I gained some respect for the weapon.

They really aren't as easy as a lot of you think they are. Go shoot one and you'll see.

[Adjam5]

I have shot the crossbow and I was at it good for the first time out. Heck I was accurate enough to hunt with it. Shot a Excaliber at Gander Mtn product demo days in 04. If you can shoulder a rifle, you can shoot a crossbow. Just lay on the crosshairs.

It is A LOT easier than shooting my Mathews or Recurve. Point and shoot.

I have respect for the weapon, but it should not be in archery season. For youth...OK, hurt or older archers...OK, Vets Heck yeah.

But healthy folks...Heck no.

The crossbow in archery season increases ones success rate. Point and shoot...like a gun. That cannot be disputed.

If you have never been busted drawing on a animal, or busted letting down, then you have not bow hunted enough. Crossgun (oops! I said it! Sorry Luke:D) hunters do not have that issue.

Do we need to increase one chances of success so badly that we include superior weapons or weapons with greater advantages to the sport?

The million $ question has STILL not been answered.

Having to NOT draw in the presence of the animal.

That is a HUGE advantage over "archers" who do.

I think Mike..Ruttinbucks post is the BEST of the thread.

"Easy way out and a cop out. Whatever happened to challenge? Let everybody make the team. Give em all a trophy. Throw in a bucket of Come' mere deer while your at it. " Just like the Democrats would do.

I am sure some of you have heard of the "No child left behind"program...

Now comes the "No hunter left behind program"

Lets just make it one BIG season... any weapon, anytime, anywhere.

We don't need no stinkin rules.

[RUTNSTRUT]

Right, this silly arguement will never end.My 2 cents, what do I care if my neighbor decides to use a crossbow instead of compound?Why should that bother me?

Lets all just quit worrying about what somebody else might choose to hunt deer with and just hunt!

Because where does it end, today crossguns in archery season and maybe the next thing will be rifles.

[Rhino]

This is really starting to sound like the old arguements of traditional bows vs. compound bows.

Superior weapons or weapons with greater advantages. Ability to draw & hold while not within the deer's view (while behind cover or looking away) and wait for the right angle at full draw...that's a huge advantage. Whatever happened to challenge after all bowhunting hunting is supposed to be how close, not how far. Stinggun (rather than crossgun). Let's not leave a hunter behind that can't accurately shoot a recurve or longbow. Easy way out. Heck before you know it there will be compounds out there with letoffs where you can draw your bow and the weight of the bow alone will keep it at full draw at your side...Oops...we have those.

Yep, the Xbow opponents have done well to drag out the old arguements against compounds by trad hunters. Funny how things change but really remain the same.

If the Xbow opponents feel Xbows should only be legal during primitive weapon & regular gun seasons then I want the bow season divided in half so I can hunt with my recurve and not have to share the woods with the stringgunners when I want to hunt with my real bow. :D:p:D

[JimT]

There really is not much of a difference between the two. You still have to get close. A lot has to go right. Any guy that's not a complete wussy can hold a 55# bow with 80% let off for a couple minutes. So the only true difference is getting away with the draw while using a compound. Even if you have a crossbow you will have to hold it on target. Those things are heavy. That's a huge disadvantage. I have never even fired a true hunting cross bow. The only ones I have ever used was the ones at the fair. I will stick up for anyone that chooses to hunt with one. It is their choice, no one elses. Anyone who lays awake at night wondering why "they" let guys use crossbows during bow season needs to get a life really...a crossbow is a bow, not a gun.

[ruttinbuc]

Thanks Anthony! That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

Who do we blame but an ever hungry industry for bringing these things into the game. Did hunters want inline muzzleloaders? Did someone from the sissies club clamor for reduced holding weight compounds? Did I get a survey for the inclusion of the crosswhatever into the NJ archery season? Did anyone ever ask you? Where were all these bandwagons? I did not see hunters pulling any of them. All I see is manufacturers pushing everything that they can push on an unsuspecting hunting public. Even the compound was pushed by those who made them.

We might as well have a free for all, use whatever weapon you want to hunt with season. Make it year round what the heck. Might as well really make it a joke, no?

And for every 5 bags of Acorn Rage you buy you get a smile from big Bill and the boys as they laugh all the way to the bank ....

Here is my crossbow... A cross between a Newberry and a Barnsdale. I had the 40-50# limbs custom made so I can continue BOWHUNTING

Edited September 16, 2010 by ruttinbuc

[Dawg]

Akern Rage works..........heck Craig Morgan said he gets 10x's the pictures with Akern Rage in front of his Wildgame trail cameras.

Who wouldn't believe Craig Morgan?

[Tominator]

There really is not much of a difference between the two. You still have to get close. A lot has to go right. Any guy that's not a complete wussy can hold a 55# bow with 80% let off for a couple minutes. So the only true difference is getting away with the draw while using a compound. Even if you have a crossbow you will have to hold it on target. Those things are heavy. That's a huge disadvantage. I have never even fired a true hunting cross bow. The only ones I have ever used was the ones at the fair. I will stick up for anyone that chooses to hunt with one. It is their choice, no one elses. Anyone who lays awake at night wondering why "they" let guys use crossbows during bow season needs to get a life really...a crossbow is a bow, not a gun.

I change my vote. Best quote of the thread. LMAO. You said wussy.

[BearClaw]

Just my opinion, if crossbows give you such a big advantage and it's unfair, blah, blah, why don't the same people that complain about that compalin about inline muzzleloaders? A muzzleloader with a scope and feels and looks like a rifle-how unethical! lol What's the difference? With our dwindling hunter numbers and we can get more people out in the woods with a crossbow, let's get them out there! What difference does it make to anyone? Do you really think we're going to hurt the deer population because a growing number may hunt with crossbows? Unlikely! Let the crossbows fly! Just fyi, I hunt with a compound!

[buckee]

This is really starting to sound like the old arguements of traditional bows vs. compound bows.

Superior weapons or weapons with greater advantages. Ability to draw & hold while not within the deer's view (while behind cover or looking away) and wait for the right angle at full draw...that's a huge advantage. Whatever happened to challenge after all bowhunting hunting is supposed to be how close, not how far. Stinggun (rather than crossgun). Let's not leave a hunter behind that can't accurately shoot a recurve or longbow. Easy way out. Heck before you know it there will be compounds out there with letoffs where you can draw your bow and the weight of the bow alone will keep it at full draw at your side...Oops...we have those.

Yep, the Xbow opponents have done well to drag out the old arguements against compounds by trad hunters. Funny how things change but really remain the same.

If the Xbow opponents feel Xbows should only be legal during primitive weapon & regular gun seasons then I want the bow season divided in half so I can hunt with my recurve and not have to share the woods with the stringgunners when I want to hunt with my real bow. :D:p:D

Bravo. :toot: