Milwaukee Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 I'm new to this site and have a question pertaining to our hunting property. We have 400 acres of crop land to hunt (split about evenly with areas of cover and open field (cedar swamp/river bottom/field/ridges) in the upper peninsula of Michigan. This property yields corn and various wheats/alf/etc. for the deer to eat. Feed and nutrition does not appear to be an issue. For the past 10 years we've been shooting 8 pts and up and 'wider' than the ears along with mature does (2.5yr old and older). We've now began being more selective regarding our bucks and are holding out for 3.5 yr old bucks or larger. My question surrounds the doe to buck population ratio. Over the years, we've taken many does and about half as many bucks following our rules listed above. The past (2)two seasons have yielded fewer mature does with a lot of yearling does making up the mix. Also in the mix we have a wide array of bucks with some 2.5yr old bucks that support only spike or poor quality antlers. Based on our deer sightings, our buck to do ratio is 3 to 1. (3 bucks to every 1 doe - including fawns). What is everyone's opinion on the best way to manage this plot of land for more mature bucks? Should we be taking out some of the stunted/poor genetics in the scrub 2.5 and older bucks or should we continue to focus on the does and 3.5yr old bucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallard_drake85 Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Honestly a 2.5 yo buck is still concentrating most of his nutrition on skeletal growth instead of antler development. If this were my property, and with the info that you have given, I would concentrate the majority of my hunting on does this season and allow the bucks to reach one more year of age, then reexamine this question. I know that is not what alot of hunters want to hear, eating a buck tag can be disheartening, but your patients will be rewarded. just my 3 cents mallard_drake85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodtrails Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 :ninja::death: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I appreciate the feedback and there are no 'right and wrong' answers here. I agree that mature bucks cannot get mature unless you let them grow. No difference in opinion here. I would gladly give up shooting a buck for a few years to get some true trophies. My question is do we keep shooting does or should we take some of the 'management' bucks out of the herd and leave the does? I can't imagine the 2.5 yr old spikehorns and basket racks will ever amount to anything but I'm not an expert and that is why I'm asking the question here. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallard_drake85 Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 My question is do we keep shooting does or should we take some of the 'management' bucks out of the herd and leave the does? I can't imagine the 2.5 yr old spikehorns and basket racks will ever amount to anything but I'm not an expert and that is why I'm asking the question here. Thanks! Though I do not claim to be an expert, I do have a Master of Science Degree in Forest Management for Wildlife and I delt extensively with white-tailed deer. Alot of changes can happen between 2.5 and 3.5 years of age on bucks. Like I stated earlier, a 2.5 yo buck is still concentrating its nutritional intake on skeletal and muscular development. Antler development is only secondary to these. A buck will reach skeletal maturity around 4.5 years of age, thereafter, the majority of his nutritional intake will be devoted to antler growth. You cannot tell what a buck will blossom into before then. Alot of weekend warriors will harvest these "genetically inferior" bucks which in reality they have harvested immature bucks that were concentrating nutritional intake on more important areas of growth. You will not harm your deer population by removing does, rather only enhance herd potential. I still do not believe you should harvest the basket rack 2.5 yo bucks as they have not reached anywhere close to their potential. Again, only my 3 cents. mallard_drake85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griz Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I run a strick management program here and I also keep feed, minerial, and food plots out for the Deer year round... I have proof and pics what I have done with my Deer heard and the best thing for you to do is to shoot those 2 1/2 yr. old spikes and those nothin' rack type Bucks that are 2 1/2 yrs. old... It's not going to hurt a thing... Get them out of the breeding pool. You sure don't need a bunch of them out there runnin' around... Harvest your Does. I like to take out the mature Does if I can. It took me a long time to get where I'm at to day but beleave me it was worth it... I have a post in the Deer Huning Room of a young Ladies Very First Deer... The Buck has 18 points and is only 3 1/2 yrs. old... Check it out... Griz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Posted October 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 Thanks for the input! Now I have two avenues to take that are both 180 degrees from one another :surrender: I do appreciate the feedback and hope others will chime in. It does appear that shooting the does is still a good avenue to take and that is good to know. My only dilema now surrounds the younger bucks and what to do with those. I've seen and read different positions on 2.5 yr old small and basket rack bucks and those positions range from 'they will amount to nothing more than a spike' to 'you cannot tell due to them being immature'. I was worried having too many bucks would possibly hurt the hurd and also be a negative when it came time for the rut to take place. With fewer does, especially mature ones, fewer bucks would potentially move in for breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kid Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Thanks for the input! Now I have two avenues to take that are both 180 degrees from one another :surrender: I do appreciate the feedback and hope others will chime in. It does appear that shooting the does is still a good avenue to take and that is good to know. My only dilema now surrounds the younger bucks and what to do with those. I've seen and read different positions on 2.5 yr old small and basket rack bucks and those positions range from 'they will amount to nothing more than a spike' to 'you cannot tell due to them being immature'. I was worried having too many bucks would possibly hurt the hurd and also be a negative when it came time for the rut to take place. With fewer does, especially mature ones, fewer bucks would potentially move in for breeding. I do believe that genetics play a role in your heard, I believe that taking a 2 1/2 year old buck that just has spikes or is a scrub buck is worth taking out, You dont want those gentetics floating around your heard, rather you want more inches granted a small buck could grow into something someday but ask yourself this at a deer ranch do they breed does with scrub bucks or bucks with a lot of horn and points, I personally would want a breeder buck to have a lot of inches on his head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 I really can't speak for your northern bucks but it's difficult to tell if a buck is geneticlly inferior down here until he's 4.5. I have only gotten pics of 1 3.5 yr. old buck several years ago that was a cull based on the 18" spikes he had but that was the exception to the rule. By the book a buck's nuitriion goes more to body growth during the early years rather than antler growth with 3.5 year old bucks showing ~70% of their antler potential. Some of those young bucks you mention with less than your headgear desires could easily have gotten a late start due to the doe being bred during a second or third estrus cylce. Who knows. Also...remember half the genes come from the doe. Personally, I would be real hesitant to take any 2.5 year old bucks out of the herd unless they were carrying 16" or longer spikes on their heads. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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