Wolves, Need some help guys

[scottb]

Doin this as a favor for my wife who needs the answers for a college assignment.

So the question is, How do you as a hunter feel about the wolf recovery out west, or specifically in Montana?

[TN Bucknasty]

I feel the same way that I do about the spread of coyotes, armadillos, and now even alligators to Tennessee. I could also say that I feel the same way about the restoration of birds such as hawks, owls, and eagles. THEY NEED TO DIE!!! They ought to be managed more aggressively than prey animals. Common sense should tell us what happens when you protect the animals at the top of the food chain.

I'll bet that the hunters and livestock farmers in Montana feel the same way. The wolves are and will continue to be a growing drain on the Montana economy both by killing domestic animals and killing the game that everyone travels there to hunt. That's why everyone worked so hard to eradicate them in the first place.

[scottb]

Because i forgot to also ask, what effect do you feel the wolves are having?

[texastrophies]

Start out by saying...No personal experience.

From all I have read and heard the wolves in Montana, Idaho & Wyoming are having a negative impact on the elk, deer cattle & sheep populations, which is having a negative impact on not only hunting, but ranching also. If the wolves are left unchecked, I feel that there will be a definite decrease in wildlife numbers to the point where they may become endangered. I would also imagine that left unchecked, the wolves will migrate to new locations as their populations increase.

The impact is felt throughout numerous industries due to the reduction in hunters visiting these states. It affects the State Fish & Wildlife depts. by reduced income from fewer hunting licenses, it affects motels, cafes, gas stations, outfitters...etc. by having fewer visitors/hunters.

I guess in all fairness though, it does create more tourist that want to get a glimpse of a wolf, but I doubt that it offsets the loss from hunters.

[TN Bucknasty]

I guess in all fairness though, it does create more tourist that want to get a glimpse of a wolf, but I doubt that it offsets the loss from hunters.

Exactly. Let's do an expenditures breakdown. Wolf watchers- airline tickets, food, lodging, gas Hunters- airline tickets, lodging, gas, licenses, tags, guide fees, meat processing, taxidermy, etc.

[elkoholic]

I can assure you that the wolf packs are having a very negative impact on the game populations. I have seen very few deer and elk so far this season, and although I am sure the wolves are not the only factor, their increasing numbers are the only significant change in the past several years. After two years of mild winters one would expect to see increased game populations. The elk herds are constantly on the move as they are harassed by the wolves. I foresee shortened seasons and less hunting opportunities here in the western part of the state. It is an eerie experience to be surrounded by howling wolves in the predawn gloom with just a moving shadow or two in the darkness. I can see there being a cycle of game population crashes followed by a drop in wolf numbers at which point the game herds start to recover only to be decimated again by a rising wolf population. The human hunters will be left with limited opportunities resulting in decreased people joining or remaining in the ranks. Many more hunters in the western part of the state will trek to the east side of the state where there is less public land on which to hunt. The northern Yellowstone elk herd has dropped from approximately 17,000 head to the vicinity of 3,000 which resulted in the late season elk hunt north of the park to come to a virtual standstill. I see a huge loss in revenue for the state. There are simply too many issues to fully comprehend here, but one of them is the anti-hunters backing the increasing wolf numbers as a way to eliminate human hunting. Millions of taxpayers dollars wasted and a tradition on the brink of destruction.

[Ravin R10 man]

BANG!

[silvertip_co]

Just like coyotes, if I see them I'll kill them.

[arrow32]

You know I never really thought of wolves having such a huge effect on game animals until reading this. When it comes to yotes I want them all dead but I guess being the fact that I've never saw a wolf in real life there just kind of majestic so to speak. But I'm sure if I lived in an area where they were hurting other game animals just like yotes I would want them dead.

[Jorden]

Wolfs need to be managed just like any other animal. There is really no reason for large wolf populations nowadays. Wolfs are predators and kept the elk, deer, etc population in check for thousands of years. Now with as many hunters as we have now, the need for natural predators is not as great. Especially out west were in many states you may have to wait years to draw a tag...only to find out that the area you are hunting has been overrun with wolves. Like it or not, man is the top predator now and we spend a lot of money to be able to hunt big game. More wolves=less hunters spending money on hunting. Wolves have their place in nature...but not nearly like they use too.

[bwana72]

My 2-cents.... Wolves were brought back for pretty much two reasons. First was that there is definately a need for large predators. We as hunters hate the thought of something else killing "our" deer and "our elk", but the simple fact is that there was in fact a justifyable reason to bring the wolf back to help control populations of prey species like the deer and elk. Especially in and around Yellowstone. The other reason that the wolf was brought back was plain and simply, Nostalgia. People longed to here the call of the wolf as did our fore fathers, and that's cool....except when that "call of the wild" is coming from your backyard and Little Suzie is out there playing in the sand box. Too many people who think with their hearts and not with their heads forgot about reason number one....the wolf is a Large Predator. That, or they simply don't care about the rancher who is losing his livelihood, or a child that has been attacked, it wasn't their kids, and it wasn't their cattle or sheep that were killed. My biggest problem with this issue is that the reintroduction of wolves out west was justified with scientific data. The Fish & Wildlife people were charged with justifying it. But now that they are here, and spreading like wildfire, it isn't about the scientific data anymore. It is about the nostalgia. You have judges that groups like PETA have in their back pockets. These people don't care to see the big picture. Tree huggers go out and hug trees and then go back to their stick built homes. They see a news report of a mountain lion attack on a jogger and snarl that the jogger was the the lions territory. But when it is Their little Poodle being drug away, then suddenly its time to "cry wolf"(pun intended)

[elkoholic]

Some more thoughts on the wolf "recovery". The wolf population had reached a previously agreed upon number at least five years ago, and at that point the state was to take over management. Then the wolf lovers (predictably) sued to block any management attempt by the state and without fail made their case before the judge who rules in favor of the tree hugging, Peta types 99% of the time, The Honorable Donald Molloy. The wolf advocates are currently working on a plan to establish wolves in every state where they were originally found and with the backing of the courts they may soon be heard behind your house.

I am not sure there was ever a need, in current times, for a large predator anywhere in the western states. While the Yellowstone elk herd needed thinning it could have been done, with better control, with human hunters. The wolves kill all year long, do not stop when the prey populations drop too low and are not easily controlled as to where they roam or what they kill. Wolves are large predators for sure, with one killed in Idaho last year that weighed 220+ lbs and one in Montana that was 180+ lbs. I am not sure how many tourists wish to see a deer, elk or moose chased down, hamstrung, with their belly ripped open and intestines falling out, finally pulled down and the feeding frenzy begin as they continue to struggle. It is at the point where the wolf population can not be effectively controlled (short of a poisoning campaign) and the hunting here in northwest Montana, and anywhere the wolves roam, will never be the same again.

[TN Bucknasty]

"Oh no! They're coming right for us! BOOM!!!" I wonder how much of that is already going on. I'll bet a lot of people are practicing SSS. I know that's exactly what would happen in the South.

[dbHunterNY]

yotes go after calves here on rare occasions. the cows can fend any of them off well enough. however, i'm not so sure with 150+ lbs wolves. basically, if they're introduced back into the adirondacks then all they will do is migrate south where there's more food per square mile. then if they start going after my parent's cattle, we won't have a choice but to shoot them. we'd legally have the right to do so or we wouldn't have cattle. with the population density here in NY I don't think it's a good idea.

[Shaun_300]

.25-06 with a 75gr hollow points will do the trick quite nicely. Don't know why they don't open a season on them for you guys, sounds like they're really getting to be a serious problem. We can shoot them in Ontario, only place we can't shoot them is in a township bordering a big provincial park (Algonquin Park).

[elkoholic]

yotes go after calves here on rare occasions. the cows can fend any of them off well enough. however, i'm not so sure with 150+ lbs wolves. basically, if they're introduced back into the adirondacks then all they will do is migrate south where there's more food per square mile. then if they start going after my parent's cattle, we won't have a choice but to shoot them. we'd legally have the right to do so or we wouldn't have cattle. with the population density here in NY I don't think it's a good idea.

I do believe that under the Endangered Species Act, farmers and ranchers do not have the legal right to shoot an endangered species to defend/protect their livestock. Only agents of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service can make the decision to kill endangered species and then they or personnel authorized by them do the killing. Here in Montana there is a fund setup to pay ranchers for the loss of their livestock (funded, I believe, by animal rights groups), but it seldom pays the full value of the animals killed by the wolves. The Adirondacks is a prime example of a place where wolf reintroduction would likely occur, and no, they will not stay there.

[PotashRLS]

Simply put............

Wolves are another story showing how in modern times an endangered or threatened species can be restored to abundance. But they became a political tool instead of a big game animal which could be managed by state wildlife departments and hunters. Wisconsin can pretty much flush their years of Elk repopulation efforts down the toilet!!

Conservation.............politicians and activists need not apply!!!!!

Why don't they repopulate the south with wolves to control the feral hog problem?

[dbHunterNY]

I do believe that under the Endangered Species Act, farmers and ranchers do not have the legal right to shoot an endangered species to defend/protect their livestock. Only agents of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service can make the decision to kill endangered species and then they or personnel authorized by them do the killing. Here in Montana there is a fund setup to pay ranchers for the loss of their livestock (funded, I believe, by animal rights groups), but it seldom pays the full value of the animals killed by the wolves. The Adirondacks is a prime example of a place where wolf reintroduction would likely occur, and no, they will not stay there.

You're probably right. However, that's assuming their home ranges would shift that far south before their numbers increased enough to no longer be consider an endangered species.

[stevebeilgard]

write to the montana/idaho/wyoming ranchers and/or guides associations. what you'll find is that the wolves are descimating the game herds and killing ranchers stock at will. what the feds said is that they would allow hunting of wolves when they had 20 packs. they now have far in excess of that and keep them protected.

we need to kill all the wolves (legally, of course) and let the superior preditor (man) control the game herds. i'm in favor of sending all our wolves to washington dc where they can eat the politicians. lol