Dawg Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 I fear that in 50 years Christmas will be a fraction of what it used to be. You can't take Christ out of Christmas. It just doesn't work although the liberals will do their best to make it happen. :angry: It already is a fraction of what it used to be. (This "under god" nonsense wasn't added until 1954) I wasn't going to reply to any of your responses until you said the quote above. There are many members here that represent many different religious denominations and not once have I seen any of them slam you or even mention you being an atheist. But yet, here you are calling the very core of my belief nonsense? As for your misrepresentation of the Lords words in Luke 19:2......well it is a classic move by MANY atheists today to try and make the Word of God contradict itself. Not going to work on me, sir. As for the subject of this thread, I agree with most here. The mosque shouldn't be built near ground zero and they should absolutely not have any access to federal tax dollars to help further their agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 It already is a fraction of what it used to be. I wasn't going to reply to any of your responses until you said the quote above. There are many members here that represent many different religious denominations and not once have I seen any of them slam you or even mention you being an atheist. But yet, here you are calling the very core of my belief nonsense? As for your misrepresentation of the Lords words in Luke 19:2......well it is a classic move by MANY atheists today to try and make the Word of God contradict itself. Not going to work on me, sir. As for the subject of this thread, I agree with most here. The mosque shouldn't be built near ground zero and they should absolutely not have any access to federal tax dollars to help further their agenda. > I apologize for offending you, however, rest assured that I was not referring to your beliefs as nonsense...just the fact that in the 1950's it was added to the pledge of allegiance. Again I apologize. Please enlighten me, what exactly is the meaning behind the passage I posted? I've asked often and never been able to get a straightforward, concise, meaningful answer. Perhaps it's a "classic move" because it does highlight a bit of a contradiction. Even though its a parable, why would a loving, forgiving god condone violence and murder? Also please let me clarify, I'm not trying to convert anyone or anything like that, I just feel an overbearing sense of hypocrisy in many of the posts here, ie: Killing in the name of god is wrong...unless it's my god. And frankly the only reason I made my signature as it is was because I was quite surprised how many posters equated innocuous little daily events to the "work of god". Also equating religious belief with patriotism is extremely offensive to me. I had no intent of hijacking this thread, I definately agree with many sentiments expressed here, others not so much. But I do love a spirited/heated discussion, and just because I don't agree with someone doesn't mean I don't respect thier right have an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawg Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Perhaps we can discuss that topic elsewhere and not bog down this thread with a different subject. However, I will say this; though God is a forgiving, loving, merciful God, He is still a vengeful, judging God. The existence of God's love does not contradict the existence of His wrath. He has given all mankind the warning, it is up to us to heed that warning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted November 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 What a foolish response. Libertarianism = the view that each person has the right to live his life in any way he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others" Free market, Minimal Goverment, and personal liberty is my platform. I don't recall ever supporting any "rights" for terrorists, illegal aliens, or any specific religious faction for that matter. You appear to be so blinded by irrational thought, you fail to see that this intolerance is just about as un-American as jihad. What ever happened to "land of the free"? I don't recall saying you did support any rights did I? I was stating my dislike for people with your views as well as those who support the otter issues I named. Your on the wrong forum to force a heated discussion, especially when it comes to Christianity, and the conservatives. Go find another forum to infect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 (edited) I don't recall saying you did support any rights did I? I was stating my dislike for people with your views as well as those who support the otter issues I named. Your on the wrong forum to force a heated discussion, especially when it comes to Christianity, and the conservatives. Go find another forum to infect. > You never answered my question. "infect"..........cute. Edited November 25, 2010 by The Bug House Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Whats the worth of an opinion if you're unwilling to defend it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Correct me if I'm wrong here ,, and I know this is a touch off topic .. But wasn't this country founded and based on Christianity in the 1620's by English settlers (Pilgrims) ?? So how can there be any QUESTION that this country was founded, Honored and defended by God's word ?? God and Country .. I think we were doing just fine until all of these other religions and believes migrated here to this great nation .. JMO of course ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Correct me if I'm wrong here ,, and I know this is a touch off topic .. But wasn't this country founded and based on Christianity in the 1620's by English settlers (Pilgrims) ?? So how can there be any QUESTION that this country was founded, Honored and defended by God's word ?? God and Country .. I think we were doing just fine until all of these other religions and believes migrated here to this great nation .. JMO of course ... > No it wasn't....go to the political forum for more convo...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Then history must have been rewritten since my high school days .. :jaw: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Then history must have been rewritten since my high school days .. :jaw: The Plymouth Colony was settled and founded by the pilgrims, not the United States of America. However, the Mayflower Compact was most certainly derived from English law and Biblical law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 The Plymouth Colony was settled and founded by the pilgrims, not the United States of America. However, the Mayflower Compact was most certainly derived from English law and Biblical law. I never mentioned the words "United States of America" ... I said that this country was founded on ,,, so to me the earliest sense of this would naturally be the Pilgrims of the 1600's .... Because where they settled, was latter to become part of what is today .. OK, I'm done because I really suck at debating .. lol God Bless, everyone ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 on ,,, so to me the earliest sense of this would naturally be the Pilgrims of the 1600's .... Because where they settled, was latter to become part of what is today .. Actually, I'm quite certain we stole it from the Native Americans under the guise that "all men are created equal...by their creator..." You are free to worship any creator here in America, The Constitution is supposed to protect that. Unfortunately, history has shown that certain sects can create problems for certain sects for trying to exercise those rights when they don't agree with the majority. One thing that atheists have never been able to answer for me is; if not God (by any name), then who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Actually, I'm quite certain we stole it from the Native Americans under the guise that "all men are created equal...by their creator..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultratec1 Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 PEOPLE……. stopping arguing over religion when it comes to the future of our country, instead stand together and see the problem at hand. When things like this are brought up religion is always thrown on the table. Stop blaming problems on ones religion and start dealing with them as the source of the issue. I don’t care if they were Buddhist Monks that fly those planes into the towers, I’m not going to hate every monk and blame a chubby Chines statue. I’m holding the people and their peers accountable for the actions; swift and just action should be taken. I will proudly stand here and tell you that I’ am a red blooded American who values my way of life and I will not stand for someone to come here and take that away from me or my family, whether it’s a Muslim, Christian or Hindu. I have my beliefs and others have theirs, and I can handle that no problem, but when you try to take my way of life then I will fight you tooth and nail. Now for the whole “Christ”mas ordeal, guess what …..it’s MY holiday, MY families holiday and MY friends holiday. I have faith in our lord so if you find it offensive that we named a holiday that has the word CHRIST in it, that is celebrated over CHRIST then don’t partake, I don’t try to change Ramadan or Kwanzaa so don’t change mine. I find it humorous how people get so uptight and offended by the “Christ”mas ordeal but sure will take that holiday pay or partake in gift giving. There is a very true and accurate meaning here, “He is the reason for the season.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 > No it wasn't....go to the political forum for more convo...... BALONEY! this country can trace it's very roots to the christian judeo principles of god. it was inhabited by folks wanting religious freedom and who wanted to get away from the religious barriers presenterd by their previous country. it's founders mention god at every opportunity. if you simply follow history correctly, you will see prayers at every original meeting for the creation of this country and it's constitution. like i said in the political rooms, this is the season for fruitcakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elk_Hunter Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 BALONEY! this country can trace it's very roots to the christian judeo principles of god. it was inhabited by folks wanting religious freedom and who wanted to get away from the religious barriers presenterd by their previous country. it's founders mention god at every opportunity. if you simply follow history correctly, you will see prayers at every original meeting for the creation of this country and it's constitution. like i said in the political rooms, this is the season for fruitcakes. so let me get this straight....the Native Americans that were here before the settlers showed up don't count....you all must remember that this in not OUR home and native land it is theirs....we came here and forced our beliefs whether they be Christian, Muslim, etc. In a very real sense they are trying to do exactly what we did the the natives, only it is taking them way longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kat Posted November 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 so let me get this straight....the Native Americans that were here before the settlers showed up don't count....you all must remember that this in not OUR home and native land it is theirs....we came here and forced our beliefs whether they be Christian, Muslim, etc. In a very real sense they are trying to do exactly what we did the the natives, only it is taking them way longer Blah.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 so let me get this straight....the Native Americans that were here before the settlers showed up don't count....you all must remember that this in not OUR home and native land it is theirs....we came here and forced our beliefs whether they be Christian, Muslim, etc. In a very real sense they are trying to do exactly what we did the the natives, only it is taking them way longer no, i didn't forget this. yep, we invaded the indians land, killed them, and stoled their future. just like what you did in canada. but, today they live in far superior conditions with more opportunities than they every would have had. it would be ignorant to believe today that the indians would be living their lifestyle today had the english explorers not come, and the white man did not do what he did. i speak for canada too, as my wife is canadian. they would be speaking japanese, chinese, or german for sure. but, with history what it was, they most likely would be simply killed off 100% and their land taken. i see todays indian as having the opportunity to live free in a great land. there were, by their own estimates, roughtl 1 million indians in america when we settled the east. today there are far superior numbers. the problem they have today is that federal programs have stripped the indian of any will to be productive. they are, basically, a "kept" people who no longer have the pride of a job and have sacraficed their future for a welfare check. just what we've done to the black culture. it's a shame, and we should stop welfare to everyone to allow them to be productive, succeed or fail by their own initiative, and get their pride and culture back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan Givan Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 Ok I know this is not exactly on topic but it has been hinted at several times, and honestly this thread really hasnt been on topic for a while. The thing I find interesting about religious debates, particularly debates between people who believe in God, and the people who do not believe in God, or do not acknowledge one, is how passionate the latter group is about convincing others they are right. I mean, believers in God have obvious reasons for convincing others He is real, because it is in the non-believer's best interests. The non-believers however, really dont have any good reasons to convince us that He is not real. Why do they go to so much trouble in trying to prove us wrong and instead just let us believe what we want? Who cares if we choose to believe in God, whats it to them? My theory: They are not confident in their own beliefs and they are actually trying to convince themselves they are right, more than trying to convince us we are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 PEOPLE……. stopping arguing over religion when it comes to the future of our country, instead stand together and see the problem at hand. When things like this are brought up religion is always thrown on the table. Stop blaming problems on ones religion and start dealing with them as the source of the issue.. A problem arises when someone with different beliefs than you says "don't stand next to me, you're different, therefore the enemy". I don’t care if they were Buddhist Monks that fly those planes into the towers, I’m not going to hate every monk and blame a chubby Chines statue. I’m holding the people and their peers accountable for the actions; swift and just action should be taken. I will proudly stand here and tell you that I’ am a red blooded American who values my way of life and I will not stand for someone to come here and take that away from me or my family, whether it’s a Muslim, Christian or Hindu. I have my beliefs and others have theirs, and I can handle that no problem, but when you try to take my way of life then I will fight you tooth and nail. +1 Excellent, spoken like a true Compatriot. Now for the whole “Christ”mas ordeal, guess what …..it’s MY holiday, MY families holiday and MY friends holiday. I have faith in our lord so if you find it offensive that we named a holiday that has the word CHRIST in it, that is celebrated over CHRIST then don’t partake, I don’t try to change Ramadan or Kwanzaa so don’t change mine. I find it humorous how people get so uptight and offended by the “Christ”mas ordeal but sure will take that holiday pay or partake in gift giving. There is a very true and accurate meaning here, “He is the reason for the season.” Agree +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 ......One thing that atheists have never been able to answer for me is; if not God (by any name), then who? I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, but I think I get the essence. Answer: Mankind.....and more importantly; our individual brains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 (edited) Ok I know this is not exactly on topic but it has been hinted at several times, and honestly this thread really hasnt been on topic for a while. The thing I find interesting about religious debates, particularly debates between people who believe in God, and the people who do not believe in God, or do not acknowledge one, is how passionate the latter group is about convincing others they are right. I mean, believers in God have obvious reasons for convincing others He is real, because it is in the non-believer's best interests. The non-believers however, really dont have any good reasons to convince us that He is not real. Why do they go to so much trouble in trying to prove us wrong and instead just let us believe what we want? Who cares if we choose to believe in God, whats it to them? My theory: They are not confident in their own beliefs and they are actually trying to convince themselves they are right, more than trying to convince us we are wrong. I would tend to agree with some of this. Although I do see a strong correlation with age and a militant standpoint, on either side of the fence. Many younger people seem to get very worked up and feel they must convince others to accept and convert to their system. Frankly as an atheist, the intolerance and hypocrisy of some religious factions bother me, so why would I extend the very same concepts I'm against? Your theory appears a little passive - aggressive to me, but I get what you're saying. Edited November 26, 2010 by The Bug House spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bug House Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 Multiquote finally worked. ........like i said in the political rooms, this is the season for fruitcakes. I hate fruitcake. Blah.... Fascism dude..............Fascism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 Fascism dude..............Fascism. What does Kat's post have to do with Mussolini-style government ownership of the means of industrial production (which is what "fascism" is)? I think you need to find another buzzword for the folks who disagree with you. One that actually has a bit of definitive merit and is a whole lot less misused........................ dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted November 26, 2010 Report Share Posted November 26, 2010 I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, but I think I get the essence. Answer: Mankind.....and more importantly; our individual brains. I'm asking, who started all of this? How did the universe get going? Infinite regression? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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