If a mosque wasn't enough

[The Bug House]

I grew up in Vermont, Bughouse. Things have really changed for the worse there or you are a transplanted college professor from some raging blue state. Fess up now. Your just a city boy masquerading as a Vermonter aren't you?

I'm definitely not masquerading as anything. LOL! I'm as Red White & Blue as they come. Perhaps I'm a bit of a study of contrasts, as I openly admit to being part flatlander....heh heh. I grew up in Western North Carolina (Icard) near Hickory as well as Northern NY near Minerva. When my womanizing father decided to move on to his 4th marraige I was transplanted yet again to uber suburban Long Island NY. Just like most places in this country things have changed a whole bunch, some for the better some for the worse.

[The Bug House]

Never been called a facist or a socialist before lol. You are very wise mr bug. I'm glad you joined to set us all straight. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Never once do I even think for a moment that I have all the answers. However, intolerance leads to "the dark side"...and a many of my countrymen are dripping with it.

You may have inspired me to run for public office!

You never answered my question, even though you have answered everybody else. I'm feeling left out Mr. Bug.

Ahh...missed that one, don't left out! I'll get to it.

[m gardner]

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!:group::argue::chair:

[The Bug House]

JERRY! JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!:group::argue::chair:

LOL!!

As much as I dislike his TV persona, and hate to admit it, that very well may be somewhat of an appropriate analogy. I'm American born however!

[wtnhunt]

A vast fossil record and hundreds of years of collected data (and thanks to Radiometric dating, a geological time scale that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the earth is over 4 billion years old) suggesting random mutation, other variation, and natural selection leads to adaption (survival of the fittest mutation) and genetic variances (new species). But the proof is really the utter lack of any data that suggests anything but the "Theory of Evolution" as the driving force of life.

I have yet to hear any evidence that proves that man has ever evolved as the theory of evolution suggests. Man much like many animals has adapted. We have seen animals adapt in lifetimes, some of the very animals we love to hunt have remained unchanged(evolution wise) for a very long time.

Your train of thinking in that the lack of evidentiary support to prove otherwise could be a very dangerous way of thinking and in reality proves nothing. That is kind of like saying if something is not black it has to be white, we both know that is just not the case, you get my drift.

I seem to recall a prior discussion I believe I was involved in here on the forums in the past that was with you about science as well and a bit of difference of opinion. Unfortunately there are some problems with what some scientists would like folks to believe and just as the example above some are so arrogant they overlook simple reality.

This is a common misconception. The Theory of General & Special Relativity is accepted as fact, yet still refered to as a theory. It's easier to disprove a theory than it is to prove one, and until it is disproved it is referred to as a theory. A theory is a hypothesis which has been well supported by experimentation.

The Merriam Webster dictionary's first definition of Theory: "the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another".

Read on..... Theory in science when I went to school had pretty well the same meaning as speculation, I don't know whhat they are teaching where you went to school, the schools I went to in Florida I never was led to believe that the theory of evolution was anything more than someone's idea that a good deal of research was done on, never proven and not to be mistaken as being factual as you suggest with your interpretation. Keep in mind I had junior high science sometime around 1981 and college level science courses between 1987 and 1992. That has been a long time ago, but my memory on such things is pretty clear. If you take the time to read further the internet websters definitions of the term you will see that your meaning is just one. Suppose you could pick and choose here if you like to suit your self.

"

1

: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another

2

: abstract thought : speculation

3

: the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art

4

a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory

5

: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena

6

a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : conjecture c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject "

[The Bug House]

I have yet to hear any evidence that proves that man has ever evolved as the theory of evolution suggests. Man much like many animals has adapted. We have seen animals adapt in lifetimes, some of the very animals we love to hunt have remained unchanged(evolution wise) for a very long time.

I used the term "adaption" within the constraints if The Theory of Evolution.

Adaptation:the evolutionary process whereby an organism becomes better able to live in its habitat. The Galapagos are a shining example of the evolutionary process that is "adaption" as well as natural selection.

For example - Lets say any random insect is suddenly transported to a new habitat. Not the entire population of course, but figure a storm has blown down a tree that provides habitat for these insects. And that tree drifts to a new location where these insects never previously existed. Like any natural population of creatures, these insects on occasion hatch with ever so slightly altered DNA. Variation (random mutation) is the root cause here. So even though the overwhelming majority of these insects hatch with black wings (species A), every now and again a few come along with orange wings. The orange winged guys usually succumb to predation quickly...ending the possibilty of passing on the orange trait. So back to the new location were our tree has ended up...this place is covered in orange flowers giving any insects with orange wings far more suitable habitat for procreation. This orange trait is now passes along for generations (species B), while the majority of black wings are predated upon in this location. Obviously this is a simple example, and bear in mind that this process takes thousands / millions of years.

Your train of thinking in that the lack of evidentiary support to prove otherwise could be a very dangerous way of thinking and in reality proves nothing. That is kind of like saying if something is not black it has to be white, we both know that is just not the case, you get my drift.

I suppose I could have used the term "not disproved" as apposed to "proven". I get your black and white analogy, and you're correct. However, the lack of a better theory (or even a decent hypothesis in this case) lends validity to said theory. A scientific theory cannot really be proven I guess, only disproven. Do you agree that evolution has not been disproven?

I seem to recall a prior discussion I believe I was involved in here on the forums in the past that was with you about science as well and a bit of difference of opinion. Unfortunately there are some problems with what some scientists would like folks to believe and just as the example above some are so arrogant they overlook simple reality.

Absolutely. I remember as well, this occurs quite often with drug companies. 'True scientific method is pure' was my standpoint in that discussion I believe. Many times while it's not faulty science to blame, but the manipulation involved in disseminating the outcome. But what would anyone have to gain by falsifying the Theory of Evolution?

Read on..... Theory in science when I went to school had pretty well the same meaning as speculation, I don't know whhat they are teaching where you went to school, the schools I went to in Florida I never was led to believe that the theory of evolution was anything more than someone's idea that a good deal of research was done on, never proven and not to be mistaken as being factual as you suggest with your interpretation. Keep in mind I had junior high science sometime around 1981 and college level science courses between 1987 and 1992. That has been a long time ago, but my memory on such things is pretty clear. If you take the time to read further the internet websters definitions of the term you will see that your meaning is just one. Suppose you could pick and choose here if you like to suit your self.

"

1

: the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another

2

: abstract thought : speculation

3

: the general or abstract principles of a body of fact, a science, or an art

4

a : a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action children want to learn> b : an ideal or hypothetical set of facts, principles, or circumstances —often used in the phrase in theory

5

: a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena

6

a : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b : an unproved assumption : conjecture c : a body of theorems presenting a concise systematic view of a subject "

Thats puts our age difference at five years give or take, we're looking at roughly the same time frame as far as schooling goes. I learned that a Scientific Theory (capitals as to reference a proper name) was a hypothesis which experimentation could not disprove. Scientific Theory is regarded as Scientific Law, usually a set of laws interacting with one another in a complex manner, until disproven.

I did mention that my definition I listed was the first definition. I also learned in school that the first definition in the most widley regarded and accepted. But you have a point, those are all valid definitions.

[wtnhunt]

I suppose I could have used the term "not disproved" as apposed to "proven". I get your black and white analogy, and you're correct. However, the lack of a better theory (or even a decent hypothesis in this case) lends validity to said theory. A scientific theory cannot really be proven I guess, only disproven. Do you agree that evolution has not been disproven?

Evolution has never been proven, therefore it is not factual or true, the big bang theory has never been disproven to my knowledge either, obviously both cannot be what set things in place here on earth. Lets look at this with your mindset, have you proven God is not real?

[m gardner]

Evolution has never been proven, therefore it is not factual or true, the big bang theory has never been disproven to my knowledge either, obviously both cannot be what set things in place here on earth. Lets look at this with your mindset, have you proven God is not real?

If you look at the theory of evolution it's much less of a stretch to believe the Bible than evolution.

[m gardner]

I had to sit through a lecture by an overeducated archeologist awhile back and listened to her tell about the rise and fall of a local native american tribe called the hohokum. Everyone listened intently as she led us through the site and descibed the life of these people. At the end she said it took years to figure all this out and that it was like solving a jigsaw puzzle while having only 1% of the pieces. I could barely contain my laughter. I lost it when she related how some earlier scientists asked the local Navahos about the ruins and they pointed and said hohokum. This name has stuck even though when they finally learned Navaho they found it meant "they are not there anymore". Then I cracked up and had to leave. This sort of thing perpetrated by academic elitists makes me ashamed to admit I have any education at all. Cleverly contrived stories taken eventually as fact. Entertaining yes. True, probably not.

BTW, Bughouse how has hunting season gone for you? Any stories or pictures of your kills or do you just come here to harass the christians and entertain us?

Edited November 28, 2010 by m gardner

[lilmisswtnhunt]

Wrong, all the evidence unequivocally proves the theory of evolution. Just like the theory that the Earth revolves around the sun has been proven. Of course evolution has no bearing on the origins of the universe.

what evidence?! unless you can trace my family tree back to a monkey, i refuse to believe that humans descended from apes. the only evidence you have is a bunch of fossil records and some similarities in DNA. you cant tell me that my Belgian ancestors were chimpanzees. and even if evolution were possible, where did that first little bug come from?

one of the first things i learned in 5th grade science was that if you dont have a cell you cant make a cell

A vast fossil record and hundreds of years of collected data (and thanks to Radiometric dating, a geological time scale that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the earth is over 4 billion years old) suggesting random mutation, other variation, and natural selection leads to adaption (survival of the fittest mutation) and genetic variances (new species). But the proof is really the utter lack of any data that suggests anything but the "Theory of Evolution" as the driving force of life.

a theory is simply an idea. it doesnt have to be proven. it just has to have some evidence. remember the ancient egyptians? how many "proven" theorys did they have? i could have the theory that if i feed my cow a magic banana its gonna grow an extra tail. with your logic i have proof because there is no evidence to prove me wrong

Edited November 28, 2010 by lilmisswtnhunt

[Tominator]

This is tiresome.

[VermontHunter]

This is tiresome.

I'm totally amazed everyone has kept thier cool and this one hasn't been locked up tighter than a crabs butt ... :clap:

[stevebeilgard]

I'm totally amazed everyone has kept thier cool and this one hasn't been locked up tighter than a crabs butt ... :clap:

all i see is good debate so far. god is winning....

[The Bug House]

......BTW, Bughouse how has hunting season gone for you? Any stories or pictures of your kills ..........

I suppose the season itself has been wonderful, had a great stretch of clear weather...finally turned a bit colder only recently however. I've been able to spend a fair amount of time outside in the woods, (including all day yesterday) with some great friends learning much about hunting, even got out with my daughter once during the fall turkey season that was extended this year. As far as pictures of any kills go........I guess thats why its called 'hunting' not 'shooting'. LOL! But I'm determined to get that Grouse before New Years Eve.

This is tiresome.

Agreed, I apologize for the total derailment of this thread and if I pl$$ed anyone off. I'll refrain from posting my thoughts on the subject unless specifically asked. Again, I apologize.

all i see is good debate so far. god is winning....

Is that what makes it a good debate? j/k!

If anything, the internet is living, breathing proof......well not breathing, but living proof........OK, OK...... just proof that communication without the ability to see ones face and hear a tone of voice is hampered.

[Jeramie]

i'll disagree here. i think the newbies coming in to office in january will set the liberals straight and tell the muslims what america thinks. i can't wait for those evil tea party people to show their mettle.

I hope..... im about to have my fill with this stuff (along with most of America).

By the way, that latinos are now wanting to start what they are calling the Tequilla party so they can force democrats to make good on the promises they handed out before the election. And no, thats not a joke.... Google it. Sickening.

[LifeNRA]

Not gonna argue with anyone here, bottom line is that there should be no mosque being built at ground zero, they can call it a prayer center or whatever they wish it should not be being built at that location and should never have been approved. The idea of taxpayer dollars being used for such is ludicrous and any elected officials supporting such should be removed from office as it is quite obvious the majority of people in this country outside those of muslim faith do not think it appropriate.

Agreed!