The US was undoubtedly founded as a secular nation...

[The Bug House]

...with the inherent freedom to practice any or no religion as you please.

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

[Strut10]

[m gardner]

LMAO

Mark

[lilmisswtnhunt]

although it says in the first amendment that we have freedom of religion, this country was founded on Christian beliefs. the pilgrims left europe the escape the tyranny of forced religion. Christians had to worship in secrecy or not worship at all. by "freedom of religion" they meant not being forced to worship things they dont believe in

if we are not a christian country,

then why do we swear on the bible in court?

why have the 10 commandments been displayed in courtrooms since early colonial times?

why is Christmas a national holiday, yet hanukkah and ramadan are not?

though some state that we are a secular nation, most of our founding goverment documents prove otherwise.

Edited November 25, 2010 by lilmisswtnhunt

[m gardner]

God gave us free will. He does not exercise control over us. This was translated into our constitution and why we are the only country that believes people have rights not priviledges.

[stevebeilgard]

i agree. great "revised history" column you provide. just change the "facts" to suit. what a bunch of trash.

[The_Kat]

Just hit the ignore button. It works wonders for parasites like bugs.

[The Bug House]

although it says in the first amendment that we have freedom of religion, this country was founded on Christian beliefs. the pilgrims left europe the escape the tyranny of forced religion. Christians had to worship in secrecy or not worship at all. by "freedom of religion" they meant not being forced to worship things they dont believe in

if we are not a christian country,

then why do we swear on the bible in court?

why have the 10 commandments been displayed in courtrooms since early colonial times?

why is Christmas a national holiday, yet hanukkah and ramadan are not?

though some state that we are a secular nation, most of our founding goverment documents prove otherwise.

Agree 1000% with bolded! And I feel our federal laws should not include any guidelines on religious beliefs or practices, or any office dedicated to any religious entity at all.

You ask some very good, thought provoking questions and I'll answer them with my opinion and facts, and I look forward to your responses. However, please allow me to add this disclaimer as to not be accused of an ulterior motive. I'm not in any way trying to sway anyones beliefs and absolutely respect everyones right to exercise those beliefs. I do feel that an increasing number of Americans have an uninformed opinion, and are forming that opinion based soley in contrast to the percieved adversary's standpoint. I also feel this is dangerous and will lead us straight into the throes of Fascism or Socialism, which is the polar opposite of what America stands for.

1) why do we swear on the bible in court?

We are not required to swear on the Bible in any court of law whatsoever. As far as I know one may do so if they prefer, but usually you just raise your right hand and are sworn in. A few years ago I testified as an expert witness in a malpractice case and refused to use the term "so help me god", I was required to use "solemnly affirm under penalty of perjury". Even immigrants taking the The United States Oath of Allegiance, may request an oath containing no religious reference.

2) Why have the 10 commandments been displayed in courtrooms since early colonial times?

Aren't the Ten Commandments part of the old testament making them the infrastructure of Judaism prior to their interpretation by Christianity? Honestly, most of the ten commandments seem like nothing more than common sense to me. But remember..."correlation does not imply causation".

3) Why is Christmas a national holiday, yet hanukkah and ramadan are not?

Congress proclaimed Christmas a federal holiday in 1870, long after the country was founded. Technically, the United States does not celebrate national holidays, but Congress has designated 10 “legal public holidays,” during which most federal institutions are closed and most federal employees are excused from work. Again, no one is required to observe these, however all states, and nearly all employers, observe the majority of them. Since 1971, a number of these have been fixed on Mondays rather than on a particular calendar date so as to afford workers a long holiday weekend. Seems to me that if the majority of citizens are going to celebrate 2 of the holidays you mentioned above (which are celebrated celebrated at roughly the same time of year), why not try to make it time away from work? I would imagine the Muslim population in the US in 1870 was mostly recently freed slaves, or descendants.

I paraphrased from:

http://www.america.gov/st/peopleplace-english/2009/September/20080113151228abretnuh0.5784265.html

Edited November 26, 2010 by The Bug House
spelling and link

[The Bug House]

i agree. great "revised history" column you provide. just change the "facts" to suit. what a bunch of trash.

I specifically chose that link because it provided a full bibliography including encyclopedia sources. Do you have any sources to back up your claim of revision? Desperate defense lawyers are often left with little recourse other than to attack the candor of a witness when they asses the lack of evidence supporting their allegation.

[The Bug House]

Just hit the ignore button. It works wonders for parasites like bugs.

Ignoring something you don't want to hear will:

Not make it go away.

Doesn't automatically make you right.

Is often the tactic of the immature.

[Ravin R10 man]

Bughouse, you apparently do not know squat about U.S. history!

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

Very Impresive little miss..you have a very accurate grasp of history indeed!

Psalms 8:2: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

Remember; Bughouse in your prayers that he may find THE truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYMjjb8syu4&feature=related

Edited November 26, 2010 by Mathews XT Man

[m gardner]

It is good to hear things like this. It makes me realize that God is loving and longsuffering. We are living under grace now and that He wants all to have a chance for salvation and not perish under judgement. Bughouse, keep struggling with this and you will find the answer you seek. You are in our prayers.

God bless.

Mark

[The Bug House]

Bughouse, you apparently do not know squat about U.S. history!

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools

Very Impresive little miss..you have a very accurate grasp of history indeed!

Psalms 8:2: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.

Remember; Bughouse in your prayers that he may find THE truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYMjjb8syu4&feature=related

..

Ignoring facts and claiming victory when there is none will be the end of us all.

[The Bug House]

It is good to hear things like this. It makes me realize that God is loving and longsuffering. We are living under grace now and that He wants all to have a chance for salvation and not perish under judgement. Bughouse, keep struggling with this and you will find the answer you seek. You are in our prayers.

God bless.

Mark

I can appreciate the sentiment, but rest assured my struggles are few and far between.

But once again, your circular logic and attempt to overshadow the facts with theory does not indicate authenticity.

[lilmisswtnhunt]

..

Ignoring facts and claiming victory when there is none will be the end of us all.

the end of us all will come when God intends it to.

Bughouse, you apparently do not know squat about U.S. history!

Very Impresive little miss..you have a very accurate grasp of history indeed!

agreed!

did you pay attention in 6th grade history or were you too busy studying charles darwin?

thank you

i find it funny that a 14 year old redneck girl from tennessee knows more about simple U.S. history than a grown man does.

and they say we rednecks are stupid

[The Bug House]

the end of us all will come when God intends it to.

agreed!

did you pay attention in 6th grade history or were you too busy studying charles darwin?

thank you

i find it funny that a 14 year old redneck girl from tennessee knows more about simple U.S. history than a grown man does.

and they say we rednecks are stupid

I never called anyone stupid here. You want to here something funny, people call me a redneck all the time.

I thought you were interested in providing some evidence to support your viewpoint and engage in a bit of a debate or conversation. It appears I was wrong. The little pieces of paper hanging on my office wall, (specifically the one that has an MS on it) and the recent acceptance of my (potential) Doctoral Candidates thesis may just suggest that I have a better understanding of "simple U.S. history than you think.

[Dawg]

I never called anyone stupid here. You want to here something funny, people call me a redneck all the time.

I thought you were interested in providing some evidence to support your viewpoint and engage in a bit of a debate or conversation. It appears I was wrong. The little pieces of paper hanging on my office wall, (specifically the one that has an MS on it) and the recent acceptance of my (potential) Doctoral Candidates thesis may just suggest that I have a better understanding of "simple U.S. history than you think.

Really? Bragging about some papers on your wall to a 14 year old?

A bit of advice an old wise man gave me one time.............papers are for puppies.

The further these little "debates" go, the more I realize you are just here for a show and to brag about your "intellect". You do come across as an educated person with your wording but that holds little merit with me. I know of some smart/educated people who have no more common sense than a fly trying to escape out of a closed window. They too have papers.

Have fun trying with the rest. I am done.

[lilmisswtnhunt]

I never called anyone stupid here. You want to here something funny, people call me a redneck all the time.

I thought you were interested in providing some evidence to support your viewpoint and engage in a bit of a debate or conversation. It appears I was wrong. The little pieces of paper hanging on my office wall, (specifically the one that has an MS on it) and the recent acceptance of my (potential) Doctoral Candidates thesis may just suggest that I have a better understanding of "simple U.S. history than you think.

hear

did i say you called anyone stupid?

i dont believe i did

you dont seem to quite fit my description of a redneck.

if you have such a great understanding of U.S. history then why do you not understand this simple fact? the United States of America was founded on Christian beliefs. any credible source can tell you that. all you have to do is read a few of the documents and you'll see that. even in the early colonies the church was the center the town. the most important thing to the town. pastors and preachers often served as community leaders.

i sincerly hope you find God. it seems you dont realize just how much He has blessed you in allowing you to live in this incredible place

[MCH]

hear

I'm sorry....but that's hilarious!

[wtnhunt]

Wow, thought I might need to check in here, looks as if my 14 year old daughter is holding her own in debate here just fine. Will have to come back and check some more later on, on my way out the door, got a treestand calling my name.

[lilmisswtnhunt]

I'm sorry....but that's hilarious!

if youre gonna state "facts" then you could at least spell them right......just sayin

Wow, thought I might need to check in here, looks as if my 14 year old daughter is holding her own in debate here just fine. Will have to come back and check some more later on, on my way out the door, got a treestand calling my name.

thank you daddy lol:)

Edited November 26, 2010 by lilmisswtnhunt

[The Bug House]

Really? Bragging about some papers on your wall to a 14 year old?

A bit of advice an old wise man gave me one time.............papers are for puppies.

The further these little "debates" go, the more I realize you are just here for a show and to brag about your "intellect". You do come across as an educated person with your wording but that holds little merit with me. I know of some smart/educated people who have no more common sense than a fly trying to escape out of a closed window. They too have papers.

Have fun trying with the rest. I am done.

You made it clear that you were no longer interested in this discussion in the lounge..my response was "Fair enough".

I do take issue with being labeled as a braggart. Perhaps it was silly to cite my self-professed accomplishment, but no more silly that many other posts here. I've made my motivation evident in many previous posts.

As far as knowing educated people with little common sense, you would cringe at some of the physicians I work with!

Edited November 27, 2010 by The Bug House
Spelling

[The Bug House]

hear

Hilarious indeed! I spelt (haha!) something incorrectly! My sausage-like fingers and the "auto correct" feature on my iPOD are often at odds. You'll be comforted to know I've disabled it. However, your (haha!) absolutely write (haha!) I made a mistake and should half (haha!) been more diligent. I sometimes feel like pointing out some of the grammatical atrocities made by some posters, but what does that accomplish?

did i say you called anyone stupid?

i dont believe i did

Nope, just clarifying.

you dont seem to quite fit my description of a redneck.

So you feel that the same word may have different meanings to different people? I am curious about your definition though, some of my friends seem to think that if your wear flannal, boots and jeans and have a long beard you qualify.

if you have such a great understanding of U.S. history then why do you not understand this simple fact? the United States of America was founded on Christian beliefs. any credible source can tell you that. all you have to do is read a few of the documents and you'll see that. even in the early colonies the church was the center the town. the most important thing to the town. pastors and preachers often served as community leaders.

The words "the United States of America was founded on Christian beliefs" have quite a different meaning that the words "The United States was founded as a Christian Nation". I believe that the U.S. was founded on the principles of reason and common sense, which has some commonalities with some Christian beliefs. The founding fathers were very clear in in thier desire to keep the goverment secular.

i sincerly hope you find God. it seems you dont realize just how much He has blessed you in allowing you to live in this incredible place

I appreciate the positive sentiment, it comes from a good place. A good person wishes good unto others. I hope your beliefs bring you happiness and success. I'm going to need some proof (real proof) before I convert however.

:shifty:

[The Bug House]

Wow, thought I might need to check in here, looks as if my 14 year old daughter is holding her own in debate here just fine. Will have to come back and check some more later on, on my way out the door, got a treestand calling my name.

I know better than that, a parent of your caliber is all over this from the get-go! I've read many posts from you guys, in 10 years my daughter will be 14 and I hope we'll have the kind of relationship you appear to have with yours. And I hope she'll have the conviction and confidence that lilmisswtnhunt seems to have. Congrats BTW on your soon to be new arrival. My third is due Feb 2nd. Find any luck in the treestand?

I'm ready to concede that lilmisswtnhunt is already a better hunter than I am, but perhaps my little girl will be better than me! lol!

Edited November 27, 2010 by The Bug House
Added

[The Bug House]

the end of us all will come when God intends it to.

agreed!

did you pay attention in 6th grade history or were you too busy studying charles darwin?

thank you

i find it funny that a 14 year old redneck girl from tennessee knows more about simple U.S. history than a grown man does.

and they say we rednecks are stupid

Back to your three questions, I itemized and responded. Care to do the same and counter?