MrWiggely Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 The only reason I would be for them is because ever since my father smashed his elbow and shoulder he is unable to draw anything back far enough or with enough draw weight or hold it up for more that a few seconds. With the cross bow he could use 1 hand and a foot and use a cross rail for a rest, and once again enjoy hunting in the fall with me and my brothers. But that is the only reason. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWiggely Posted February 28, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... the problem is he can not hold the bow up even if it is drawn. That is why the cross bow would work, he could use the rest with it. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... ADKhunter, You know my position on CrossBows in any New York Hunting season....I am for anything that helps a disabled individual get to the woods and hunt. I believe it to be a travesty of justice that many of the people who can not use a regular bow due to injuries or disabilities are not issued permits for a crossbow. I am completely for the use of them by Disabled individuals at anytime during a legal Hunting season. In my opinion...Able bodied people could and should use a regular compound or traditional bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squirrelbuster Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Here is your chance...I'd like to hear your best argument for the usage of them across the board. I will state my thoughts first. I am only for the usage of them for the disabled who are incapable of using a mechanism such as Hickory Creeks Draw lock. Exactly when in the season....I am up for suggestions! At this point I have no opinions. [/ QUOTE ] First I want to hear some of your reasons why crossbows are so bad. I see you have an opinion that they shouldn't be allowd for able bodies but why? You don not have any reasons to back this up. I do not see why it would be such a problem for crossbows to be legalized in the gun season or even if they had there own season or something like that? What is the big deal? As I posted in the post where all this started, crossbows are just as ethical as any bow out there, and I will also say again, allowing crossbows to be used by everyone would allow for yet another form of hunting. More excitement to the hunt. I believe it would be even more exciting to harvest the animals we love with even more diversity of tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squirrelbuster Posted February 28, 2005 Report Share Posted February 28, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Sometimes we don't get what we want...so as for Why not, for the able bodied hunter ???..from me to tell you why "I think" they are so bad.... As the old saying goes...."You can wish on one hand and cast flatus in the other" [/ QUOTE ] Too bad, because that just shows you have no real reasons why able bodies should not be allowed to use crossbows. No disrespect intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... I am not from NY but let me throw some numbers in your direction. Crossbows have been legal in AR for everyone for many years. Deer harvest totals in Arkansas: ***** 1998-99 Total deer harvested 179,225 Crossbows took 6488 other Archery took 8605 ***** 2002-03 Total deer harvested 124,451 Crossbows took 2815 other archery took 6934 ***** 2003-04 Total deer harvested 107,135 Crossbows took 2946 other archery took 6232 ***** As you can see the numbers taken with crossbow or any archery equip make a very small percentage of the total deer harvested, and only about half that taken by compound bows and other archery type of equipment. Regardless of how your state goes on this issue, it won't make much difference in the total harvest. I think it is a negligible amount. .....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWiggely Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... We all know you against just about everything, but if there is something that will let me go out there with my father for the first time in over 10 years and bow hunt by golly Im all for it. You can come up with any kind of device you can think of and I could care less, it will not work for my old man. So until you know my father and his situation you might just relax on what you think he should be able to do. And yes he is working with his MD to get a special permit. Todd [ QUOTE ] Sometimes we don't get what we want...so as for Why not, for the able bodied hunter ???..from me to tell you why "I think" they are so bad.... As the old saying goes...."You can wish on one hand and cast flatus in the other" [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... Squirrelbuster, I refer you to the "WHY NOT" in your states DNR Guidelines..... Manner of Taking It is illegal to take or hunt wildlife: -while in or on a motor vehicle (except by the holder of a Non Ambulatory Hunter Permit). -with a bow equipped with any mechanical device which is attached to the bow (other than the bowstring) for drawing, holding or releasing the bowstring except for a physically disabled person in possession of a Handicapped Archer Permit (compound bows are legal). -with a spear gun or crossbow with a bow equipped with any mechanical device which is attached to the bow (other than the bowstring) for drawing, holding or releasing the bowstring except for a physically disabled person in possession of a Handicapped Archer Permit (compound bows are legal). One may think that maybe it would be clear as to the "Why" but I can probably spell it out for you: If you can do so on your own without any help you should. Maybe the DNR believes these implements to be more helpful to people with disabilities than to people without....maybe they believe that able bodied people are just that "ABLE".....but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckshot Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... Come on ADKhunter...we could go on forever with that kind of arguement.Just answer the question. I don't see where legalizing crossbows is going to hurt anything.What difference does it make to you whether your neighbor hunts with a compound,recurve, long bow or crossbow during archery season? The way I see it if you don't think crossbows are challenging enough then continue to hunt with your bow but don't deny some potential hunters from entering our sport just because crossbows aren't your choice of hunting implements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NorfolkHunter Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... I'm not from NY but I thought I could shed some light on this topic. In Ontario crossbows are treated the same as a vertical bow. They have the same season and anyone can choose to hunt with them. I've always been curious why people of some States and Provinces are so against the use of crossbows. It could be the lack of eduacation on crossbows. Or it could be that people just don't want change. Back a few months ago there was a similar discussion on another board. There was alot of complaint that crossbows give a hunter an unfair advantage. There are some advantages to a crossbow. Less practice time needed and movement is reduced when the time comes to make a shot. As for the the use of a crossbow and vertical bow while hunting. They are very similar. The hunter still has to get the animal into range. A crossbow has the same range limits as a compound bow. Being a new compound bow shooter and an ex-crossbow shooter. I have learned that you must practice with a compound on a regular basis to maintain proper shooting performance. Another difference with crossbows is there is less room for error. Which in turn makes for more consistant good shots. Now for the people that don't want to see crossbows legalized in your state. Look at it this way. How many hunters just grab a bow without practicing properly or on a regular basis. I'm sure there are few. I would much rather see these people carry a crossbow. It would greatly reduce the amount of deer possibly wounded by bad shots. If crossbows were legalized in your state in no way would it take away from the vertical bow shooters. The thing I like about crossbows being treated the same as a vertical bow in Ontario is it gives me a choice. In no way does the next guy shooting a crossbow effect my hunting. If he doesn't do his scouting and use proper hunting tactics. It gives me the upper hand. Also if I ever injured my shoulder or in someway I wasn't able to shoot my compound bow. I would hate not to be able to hunt. Allowing crossbows gives everyone the chance to enjoy the great outdoors. These are just some of my opinions. Everyone looks at things differently so don't be to hard on me. Just trying to give a different prespective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckshot Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... Ok,I'll give my reasons and opinions for legalizing crossbows. 1st I don't see any reason not to. 2nd Allowing crossbows during archery season I don't feel will affect or change the way I hunt now. 3rd it may bring more hunters into our sport.Some people don't have the time to practice to become proficient with a bow so may opt to hunt with a crossbow. 4th someday when I'm old and unable to shoot my bow I will have another option so I can still enjoy the archery season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squirrelbuster Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Squirrelbuster, I refer you to the "WHY NOT" in your states DNR Guidelines..... Manner of Taking It is illegal to take or hunt wildlife: -while in or on a motor vehicle (except by the holder of a Non Ambulatory Hunter Permit). -with a bow equipped with any mechanical device which is attached to the bow (other than the bowstring) for drawing, holding or releasing the bowstring except for a physically disabled person in possession of a Handicapped Archer Permit (compound bows are legal). -with a spear gun or crossbow with a bow equipped with any mechanical device which is attached to the bow (other than the bowstring) for drawing, holding or releasing the bowstring except for a physically disabled person in possession of a Handicapped Archer Permit (compound bows are legal). One may think that maybe it would be clear as to the "Why" but I can probably spell it out for you: If you can do so on your own without any help you should. Maybe the DNR believes these implements to be more helpful to people with disabilities than to people without....maybe they believe that able bodied people are just that "ABLE".....but I could be wrong. [/ QUOTE ] I know the regulations very well. BUT, we can't compare to just bow hunting here. If crossbows were legalized during gunseason for example, all that would be occuring is allowing another version of a "gun" in the gunseason, because I agree that a crossbow is not true archery equipment, so I say again, there should be no reason why i can't be in the gun season OR have its own season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutter10x Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... well well well, im not the only one who thinks your against everything........BUCKSHOT i totally agree....i just want adk to tell us why he is against it.......i think it would get more hunters in the woods.....hunters that would normally not want to use a bow.....archery is not easy....it takes practice..lots of it....and in my opinion some of todays youth are just plain lazy...so give them the option of useing something a little easier and maybe they will give it a try and like it......and some seniors just cant use archery equipment and dont qualify for the permit but still want to hunt with equipment that is more challenging than a shotgun or rifle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeygirl Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... The way I see it...the more weapons available to non-disabled hunters, the possible increase of more accidents. I'm not saying anyone on here would try to shoot anyone but to me, I see more and more careless and unethical hunters. Why can't we be satisfied with what we have instead of what we don't have? Disabled hunters don't have alot of choices when it comes to equipment or what not and I bet for them, being able to use a crossbow to do what they love is a major satisfaction. Just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckshot Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... Adkhunter ...Will anything be used for hunting a hundred yrs from now?? 25yrs from now?? Thats 1 of the reasons I support the legalization of crossbows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NorfolkHunter Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Hommie, thanks. In Ontario, can the crossbow be used at anytime or does it have a special season? [/ QUOTE ] Adkhunter crossbow hunting is open throughout the whole archery season. In my part of the Province its open from October 01 to December 31. Except for two weeks of controlled shotgun hunts where crossbows and vertical bows aren't allowed. Adk I don't think I will ever see the day that vertical bows disappear. Here in Ontario it is a choice. When I first started hunting I wanted to extend my deer hunting season. To do this I had to take part in the archery season. With little knowledge of vertical bows I decided to start off with a crossbow. I practiced regularily and once I shot my first deer with it I decided to start looking into shooting a compound. Last year I finally made the jump from cross to vertical. Looks like I'm going the wrong way. Who knows maybe next will be a long or recurve bow? I really enjoy shooting compound and doubt that I'll go back to a crossbow. The nice thing about the laws in Ontario is I always have the choice or option to go back to a crossbow. Good luck on your states decision with the law. If they do make a decision for crossbows to be legal. It won't hurt the vertical shooters. Instead it will bring more people into hunting. Also bring revenue into local stores that choose to sell the equipment. The way I look at it. A crossbow is a "bow". The difference is once is a "Cross" the others are "Vertical". They both work by the same means. Just differnt in the way they are fired. One fires arrows the other bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWiggely Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] As for many seniors not qualifying for the special permit...as I said. The qualifications need to change for the usage of the crossbow but not necessarily for the the general special permit. Their Dr. just needs to write the reason for the usage of it correctly. Maybe your permit should be under review occasionally. Just an idea. [/ QUOTE ] This I can agree with ! It is my oppinion that the rules and regs need to be loosened just a bit to let those folks who have been and are unfortunate enjoy the outdoors as they once did. What many folks don't know is my oppinions are driven because some years back my father was hit by a drunk driver, crushed his right shoulder and shattered his right elbow. He was lucky enough to live, now I just hope he will be lucky enough to go out and bow hunt with me again, and with his gradchildren. This has been a long family tradition with us and my opionions are selfish for me and my family. But like ADK is, Im entiltled to my opinions and reasons. None of our opinions on this matter are wrong, but I don't think any of us have the right to FORCE our opinions on others. Now you know what drives my feelings on this matter. Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWiggely Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... As for me, and anyone else claiming ADK is against just about everything, this was a wrong statement by me, and anyone else. Adk is actually and I hate to admit it, very knowledgable on NY law and regs. He just has a heck of a way of putting it. He is entitled to his opinions too I guess ;-) Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... This I can agree with ! It is my oppinion that the rules and regs need to be loosened just a bit to let those folks who have been and are unfortunate enjoy the outdoors as they once did. Here...Here Wig's And being the DHNA northeast director I completely agree with you on this statement!!! Many say that they want more people hunting...well how about we all start with a different perspective here! You dont have to recruit them!!! you dont have to train many of them at all...they already know how to hunt!!! And they would love to have your help in doing so!!! THE DISABLED HUNTER How about starting to show the Deserved Respect to people who already have a passion for the sport and allow them to use the implements that can make that happen for them that wont happen otherwise!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWiggely Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Kinda like the blaze orange thing.....LOL [/ QUOTE ] But hey little fella, you looked so good in orange! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... Here is a little food for thought: From the Ohio DNR harvest reports- In 1982, the bowhunter harvest was 8 times greater than the crossbow harvest. Three years later, the bowhunter harvest was only twice as great as the crossbow harvest. By 1991, the crossbow harvest exceeded the bowhunter harvest, and has ever since. Now, one of two things has occurred here. The first and most likely is that the archers have become a minority in their own season in less than 10 years, or the crossbow is a whole lot more effective weapon than its proponents want to admit. If the first is true: talk about loss of identity..... the bowhunters in Ohio have even lost control of their own destiny. This is something that Adkhunter eluded to in one of his posts. That may not bother those who are not dedicated to the sport of archery, but that bothers me plenty. To me that would be representing a move away from the bow and toward the crossbow. In other words, a slow, or maybe not so slow, demise of bowhunting as a defined activity in that state. Some may welcome that for our state, but don't expect all archers to just fall in line and embrace that kind of movement. The question has also been asked how a "separate" crossbow season would impact archers. The next obvious question would be, where would this special x-bow season be placed, and who's season would get displaced? I think we know the answer to that just from the current muzzleloader early season grab proposal. How about if they were allowed during gun season? How could that be a negative for bowhunters? Well, how long would it really be before, like the muzzleloaders, they were starting wanting to split out and started eyeballing the bow season as a nice target for takeover? That's certainly not without precedent, is it? I'm afraid there really is a limit to how many special seasons that one year can handle, and it's about time that we started to realize that. We cannot accomodate everyone who wants a special season for this, that and the other thing, unless we want to start limiting the length of these seasons. Is that what bowhunters want? How can these things negatively impact bowhunters?.......well, these are just a few of the ways. I'll admit that for those who really wish they were not hampered by the rigors and difficulty of mastering the bow, these things may not look like problems, but rather, opportunities. But, for those of us who are willing and even enjoy accepting the challenges of hunting with a bow, these are big problems indeed. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Thanks Todd, We all know that I do have strong opinions. [/ QUOTE ] NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Say it isn't so. We still love ya Dave, opinions are what makes America so great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhunter91 Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... P&Y does not score crossbow kills because of the fact that it is not a true piece of archery equipment. This is all because of the trigger mechanism. Crossbows should not be legal here in NY only for those who are disabled and cannot pull back a real bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Here in NY we have a very strict definition as to "who can use the Crossbow" I personally don't like it. I wish it , as of right now, should be opened up a little. How far? ????? [/ QUOTE ] Who is familiar with Bill A09746? We tried to open it a little to help guys like Wigs dad but for reasons that will light another fire it is now stuck in EnCon. Ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squirrelbuster Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] The way I see it...the more weapons available to non-disabled hunters, the possible increase of more accidents. I'm not saying anyone on here would try to shoot anyone but to me, I see more and more careless and unethical hunters. Why can't we be satisfied with what we have instead of what we don't have? Disabled hunters don't have alot of choices when it comes to equipment or what not and I bet for them, being able to use a crossbow to do what they love is a major satisfaction. Just my opinion. [/ QUOTE ] How is having a more diversity of weapons going to cause more accidents? Just because there are more weapons available, doesn't mean there are going to me more weapons out at one time so that means the acciedents would stay around the same amount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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