Guest Squirrelbuster Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... THE DISABLED HUNTER [ QUOTE ] How about starting to show the Deserved Respect to people who already have a passion for the sport and allow them to use the implements that can make that happen for them that wont happen otherwise!!! [/ QUOTE ] I fcrossbows were legalized to everyone, more of the disabled would be able to use the crossbows because some disabled people still do not qualify for the crossbow permit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squirrelbuster Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] I'm afraid there really is a limit to how many special seasons that one year can handle, and it's about time that we started to realize that. We cannot accomodate everyone who wants a special season for this, that and the other thing, unless we want to start limiting the length of these seasons. Is that what bowhunters want? [/ QUOTE ] Don't even start with this because there are numerous states that have deer seasons that begin in August or September and Extend into at least January. So in those times that New York doesn't have open for deer hunting, if they were to open them, then there would be plenty of room for at least a couple more seasons without even bothering the archery season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... Its been my exreience that people who are against the use of crossbows , are against it for one of two reasons. They are either very uneducated about how crossbows work and regard them as a rifle with a string. Or they dont want more people hunting during "thier" season. IMO both of these reasons suck.State regulations prohibiting crossbow usage only adds to the problem, people who know nothing about crossbows are not gonna be inclined to learn enough about them to make an informed decision if theyre illegal in that state, theyll never shoot one, they wont anyone who shoots one, and they have no incentive to learn anything about them.So they rely on what they see on tv or read in message boards like this to get thier information, which in a lotta cases is very misleading. People who dont want more people out during thier season are being very selfish IMO.Hunter numbers are dropping across the country.Kids generally cant hold back enough wieght to shoot a compound till thier in their teens.These days by the time they reach that age their already so distracted by the internet, tv, video games, school sports etc... they may have no desire to take up bowhunting.If they could start with a crossbow earlier in life theirs a very good chance they would want to take up a compound later for the added challenge. Elderly people who used to bowhunt no longer can and simply drop the sport either because they dont want to have to qualify for a disabled tag, or they cant qualify for a disabled tag.Is old age a disability?In a lotta states the answers no.In a lotta states even disabled people dont qualify for disabled tags. Some folks just dont have time to practice with a compound enough to feel comfortable hunting with one.Sadly a lotta people with families to support have to try to divide their time between working long hours and spending time with thier families.Crossbows would give these guys an oppurtunity to hunt as well and theyd probably only be out a couple weekends a year, not really enough to worry about them taking up all the hunting spots. I could keep going here but you get the idea.Huntings declining for a lotta reasons across the country.The expense, lack of hunting ground, overcrowding, youngsters not getting into the sport, old timers dropping outta the sport, theres a long list of reasons. I cant believe anyone would be against getting more people into hunting, it wouldnt take nothing away from you, you could still hunt with your choice of weapons, and it could recruit more people into the sport at a time when theirs so many groups trying to take things away from us it makes your head spin.And I really havent heard one good reason people shouldnt be allowed to use them. As for the record books not excepting them, heres something to think about, they didnt except entries with high let off bows either untill bowhunters started crying about it.Funny how things change. Protecting the heritage of bowhunting is more nonsense, crossbows have been around a lot longer than your single cam, high let off, 30 inch axle to axle, 300 fps bows that are legal everywhere.Compound bows originated just the last half of this century, crossbows have been around hundreds of years.So much for that theory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY911Bowhunter Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 What about the NYB? As a representative of the New York Bowhunters, it is my duty and pleasure to provide the following link in regards to thes arrowguns some are so eager to use here in our home state. It is a long read, but a good one, with lots of info. Enjoy; NYB Stance On Cross"bows" As you can tell from reading that, the NYB is opposed to allowing arrowrifles into any legal season here. My personal views waver a bit from that of my organization however. They have even softened after a great talk with Dave the Devil ADKHunter last fall! I do beleive the current requirements to allow physically handicapped hunters are too strict. It is almost unfair to allow only those who can "blow into a breath tube to activate the trigger". There are so many more people out there that do not have full use of their limbs, but could aim and trigger a crossgun. Look at Wesley, the host of the Hunting show on TOC (the name escapes me), he is a perfect example of a person who benefits from being allowed to use a cross"bow", but if he were a NY'er - he would not be allowed too! I do not beleive it should be opened up to any idiot with a hook at the doctor's office who can write them a prescription of recomendation! And that is a huge problem we would run into. HUGE! The abuse of the permits would be rampant. Who suffers?? Guys like Wig's Dad - someone who could benefit from this implement. I don't buy into the "I gots a bad shoulder, and can't draw a bow, let alone hold it back!" either. Buy a bow that will work for you - and drop the weght down! A Parker EZ Draw or a Mathews Icon set at 45# will kill any deer alive with a properly placed shot - and would be easy enough on these folks to allow them to hunt with the benefits of a real bow! What's that?? You cant afford a new bow, let alone a Mathews?? Have you checked the prices on a new crossrifle?? Got $1000? Drop it like it's HOT! And that is just for the bare gun! [ QUOTE ] 3rd it may bring more hunters into our sport.Some people don't have the time to practice to become proficient with a bow so may opt to hunt with a crossbow. [/ QUOTE ] I don't buy into this either. You ABSOLUTLEY OWE IT TO THE GAME YOU HUNT To be as accurate and proficient as you can be! If you don't have time to practice - stay the heck out of the woods! I have an active 2 y/o son, a Wife, and work almost everyday of the week - I still find time to shoot my bow - ALOT! Your quote is HOGWASH!!! (what is hogwash anyway? ) IF NY were to open up the use of these machines - I hope to God it is just during the gun season. They sure as heck ain't no BOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuckNrut Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: What about the NYB? Have I reached the end of the internet yet? I would like to see crossbows allowed during the regular season. There are areas of high deer populations near housing developements that could be better managed with cross bows than with bows only. Areas where it is just too dangerous to be open to the use of guns. I am a consevationist before a hunter. The hunting landscape is changing in NY and if I don't adapt to those changes I risk becoming extinct - like those who put bowhunting ahead of conservation. Bucknrut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY911Bowhunter Posted March 1, 2005 Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... Crossrifles for kids is a cop out. Much like everythging else we show our youth, we give into easier, and do not clutivate hard work and respect. My son is gonna bowhunt - but he is gonna work for the right to be a bowhunter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWiggely Posted March 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... My boys are going to bow hunt too, but mine were born with the right. Todd [ QUOTE ] Crossrifles for kids is a cop out. Much like everythging else we show our youth, we give into easier, and do not clutivate hard work and respect. My son is gonna bowhunt - but he is gonna work for the right to be a bowhunter! [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckshot Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: What about the NYB? [ QUOTE ] Your quote is HOGWASH!!! [/ QUOTE ] Thanks NY911bowhunter, and your opinion is 1 of the reasons why I have never and will not ever become a member of the NYB.Even though bowhunting is my 1st love and something I've enjoyed for the last 27yrs. I support all hunters not just bowhunters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY911Bowhunter Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: What about the NYB? Jess doing ma job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckshot Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: What about the NYB? [ QUOTE ] What is your real Beef with NYB? [/ QUOTE ] I think I answered that when I said I support all hunters not just bowhunters. ADKhunter you say you want to preserve the history and future of the bow.Well I think we better try to protect the sport of hunting 1st and the best way to do that is to get more people involved.Whether they're hunting with a bow,crossbow or firearm,it really doesn't matter.Otherwise we will be history and not a part of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: What about the NYB? I look at it this way....heck man...in twenty years(maybe less) I'll be considered a traditional bow shooter....WITH MY COMPOUND BOW I never base my opinions on the voice of just one.....that would mean i live in a dictatorship...not AMERICA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckshot Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: What about the NYB? I never said that or meant to imply that ADKhunter. You asked for my reasons for supporting the legalization of crossbows and one of them was that crossbows may bring more hunters into our sport.Which is in my opinion good defense against the antis.Something that I feel is important,so take it for what it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY911Bowhunter Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Buckshot - Convert and join! Buckshot, I understand your statement and can respect that. On the outside, it may seem as if the NYB and it's members are archery only and are against all other hunting. A recent survey of our membership showes that over 92 percent of us are multi-specy, multi-season, multi-weapon hunters. The NYB has a strong opinion and conviction against the cross"bow", but that does not mean it is not a worthy organization! What about the youth clinics we hold each summer? What region are you from? I am sure they could use some help next summer! I have recently taken the post of County Rep here in Dutchess. I am proud to be representing the organization and obtaining as many new members as I can - and I would love to get you to join too! Mind you, the last guy that said he would never join is now card carrying member! The organization is only is as good as it's members! If you do not agree with the way things are run now - JOIN and help to change them! issues such as crossbows, early muzzleloading seasons, mathews vs hoyt, - all that crap not only divides us as sportsmen, but makes for unessecary (sp) tension between freinds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: What about the NYB? [ QUOTE ] Horst..since you want to bring up the history of the bow/compound/Crossrifle.....what weapon has been the weapon of choice of the history of the three? I think Doc answered that when he posted the stats of Ohio. Simply put, it's easier to shoot a Crossrifle consistantly than it is a bow. [/ QUOTE ] You know, looking back through this whole post you still havent given an actual reason why hunting with them shouldnt be allowed.Again, looking at Docs post exactly how does that affect you?More deer were killed with a crossbow, but it doesnt mean you have to hunt with one, your still free to use your compound.You dont hunt with a crossbow, so you think no one should be able to, plain and simple.Theres another post from some other state in here that shows the exact opposite, a lot less deer were killed with a crossbow than compounds in that state.So Im not really seeing your point there i guesse.And again, your the one that brought the history aspect into it. [ QUOTE ] Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3rd it may bring more hunters into our sport.Some people don't have the time to practice to become proficient with a bow so may opt to hunt with a crossbow. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't buy into this either. You ABSOLUTLEY OWE IT TO THE GAME YOU HUNT To be as accurate and proficient as you can be! If you don't have time to practice - stay the heck out of the woods! I have an active 2 y/o son, a Wife, and work almost everyday of the week - I still find time to shoot my bow - ALOT! Your quote is HOGWASH!!! (what is hogwash anyway? ) [/ QUOTE ] Whats hogwash is you know exactly what he meant by that and still posted the response you did.Its simple, a crossbow doesnt take the same amount of practice to become proficient with it as a bow does.Nobodies talking about picking up a crossbow the day before season and heading to the woods with it.Shooting a deer with one isnt showing them any less respect then it is to shoot one with a compound.You know as well as i do theres guys that pick up thier compound a week before season and shoot 6 arrows through it to make sure its still sighted in and thats all the practice theyll do for the year.So arguing that because a crossbows easier to master than a compound doesnt make any difference, theres slob hunters with any weapon.Dont pretend all bowhunters who shoot compounds spend all thier freetime practicing its. Your contradicting yourself anyway, if "You ABSOLUTLEY OWE IT TO THE GAME YOU HUNT " and crossbows are just rifles with strings shouldnt we all be using them?Think of how many less deer would be lost by bowhunters if we were all shooting these.Their just rifles with strings right? One thing Ive noticed about bowhunting associations.Most of em simply dont wanna have to share thier season with more people.Ive talked to the president of the iowa bowhunters association about this same thing.It doesnt have near as much to do with the weapon as it does having to share thier season with people who dont think exactly like they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Don't even start with this because there are numerous states that have deer seasons that begin in August or September and Extend into at least January. [/ QUOTE ] Now wouldn't that be fun.........deer hunting in August. That's probably where the bow season would wind up. Basically, I think there should be a limit as to how far into the winter deer seasons should be allowed to go also. There comes a time when deer start yarding up and I don't believe that any deer hunter should be allowed to hunt under those conditions. Also a bit of consideration should be given about continuing to run the fat off deer as they start heading into stressful NY weather conditions. So, in short, I think you are assuming that too much of the year is available. Don't forget this is NYS not one of the southern states. Yes, there is a limited time-frame to stuff in all these new seasons that you would like. Somebody's season would have to become a lot shorter. Maybe you really don't care, but for me, I would just as soon see to it that it isn't the bow season. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: What about the NYB? [ QUOTE ] Well I think we better try to protect the sport of hunting 1st and the best way to do that is to get more people involved.Whether they're hunting with a bow,crossbow or firearm,it really doesn't matter.Otherwise we will be history and not a part of the future. [/ QUOTE ] Are you trying to say that the future of hunting depends on the legalization of crossbows? That just a bit of over-dramatization.....wouldn't you say? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Hunter numbers are dropping across the country.Kids generally cant hold back enough wieght to shoot a compound till thier in their teens. [/ QUOTE ] Do you have some statistics that the rest of us don't? I have never seen anything that says that bowhunter numbers are dropping anywhere. I think that when we see the statement that hunter numbers are declining, we automatically assume that that is happening in every category of hunting. That may very well be an erroneous assumption. [ QUOTE ] Elderly people who used to bowhunt no longer can and simply drop the sport either because they dont want to have to qualify for a disabled tag, or they cant qualify for a disabled tag. [/ QUOTE ] If a person must switch to a crossbow, they already have "dropped" the sport of bowhunting. Just picking up a crossbow does not mean that you are continuing to bow hunt. Also, if you can pick up a crossbow, you can also pick up a rifle or shotgun, and there's plenty of gun season available to those who want to hunt. [ QUOTE ] Some folks just dont have time to practice with a compound enough to feel comfortable hunting with one. [/ QUOTE ] And, that's why we have a gun season. [ QUOTE ] I cant believe anyone would be against getting more people into hunting [/ QUOTE ] The question is.....does crossbow legalization really bring more people into hunting, or does it just move existing gun hunters into the bow season? Or worse yet does it encourage bowhunters to throw down their bows in favor of crossbows? I personally doubt that the total hunter population is altered at all with the legalization of crossbows. [ QUOTE ] Protecting the heritage of bowhunting is more nonsense, crossbows have been around a lot longer than your single cam, high let off, 30 inch axle to axle, 300 fps bows that are legal everywhere.Compound bows originated just the last half of this century, crossbows have been around hundreds of years.So much for that theory [/ QUOTE ] There is nothing different in the way a compound bow is shot than any recurve or longbow. All of the same skills of consistancy and form are still required. Why would I even have to explain that to anyone who is really a bowhunter? This particular argument is always brought up in crossbow discussions and it continues to amaze me how any member of an archery forum would even try to make that same old tired comparison. The hunting and shooting skills and shooting procedures are exactly the same between the compound and the longbow. These are what makes archery...archery. It seems like the crossbow proponents really don't understand that for some reason. What really tells the story is that they are always trying to use the compound as an excuse to stretch the definition of archery further and further. One has to really wonder just how far they would continue to stretch that definition if archery was to include crossbows as well. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeygirl Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... This topic is getting a little hot......lol! Why don't we all be glad and appreciate the fact that we are allowed to hunt in this state. I'm sure if hunting was suddenly banned, or one weapon was banned, we would all wish we hadn't wined about what we can and cannot use and wish that we had that weapon back to use. I'm greatful to be given the opportunity to hunt and thankful that God has provided us with His wonderful creation to use! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: What about the NYB? [ QUOTE ] One thing Ive noticed about bowhunting associations.Most of em simply dont wanna have to share thier season with more people. [/ QUOTE ] And that is a good thing! One of the unique things about bow season is that unlike gun season, we are not counting on throngs of people pushing deer to us so that we might get "lucky" and have a deer forced to come our way. Bow season is a time where a bit of skill and knowledge of natural deer patterns can be rewarded with success. For those of us who still appreciate bow season as a time when deer can be studied in relative solitude and careful strategies laid out and executed, crowds of people are not really what we look forward to. Thank heavens there are organizations of like minded people who understand this. It is not surprising that any organization representing bowhunters would work toward keeping bow season for bowhunters. Adding in masses of "gun-hunter transplants" is not really what any serious bowhunter would like to see. I believe that the bowhunter organizations understand this and react accordingly to responsibly represent their members. I wouldn't expect them to do any less. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Squirrelbuster Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Now wouldn't that be fun.........deer hunting in August. That's probably where the bow season would wind up. [/ QUOTE ] Now why would you assume this? Earlier in this topic, I posted in favor of having the crossbow season, if one was to open, in the earlier part of the year (August - September). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NorfolkHunter Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... After reading through the posts. I started to wonder why everyone is out there to hunt? Do you hunt for the kill or do you hunt for the time spent out in the woods? I know my answer and that is because I love spending countless hours in the woods. Regarless if I carry a crossbow or a vertical bow. Not knowing anything about a vertical bows. I got a crossbow in 1999. The reason I got a crossbow is because it allowed me to hunt in the archery season. Extending my hunting season almost 2 1/2 months. In 2002 I finally shot my first deer with my crossbow. After that I decided to start looking into shooting vertical bows. My friend from Nova Scotia is a compound bow shooter and he got me all setup. I was always interested in vertical shooting just didn't know enough about it. By hunting with a crossbow it allowed me to learn alot about deer. For people that are against crossbows. Have you ever hunted with one? There is no difference in the challenge of hunting with one. You still have to bring that animal into range. The only difference comes when you have to take the shot. NY911 in your groups article it says that crossbows can shoot to 60 yards. Well so can my compound. The bolt fired from a crossbow reacts the same as an arrow fired from a compound. They both drop as the yardage is increased. I'm involved with different forum in Ontario and I've never heard of anyone shooting a deer with a crossbow past 40 yards. By allowing crossbows in the archery season it extends everyones season. How will this effect the vertical shooters? It won't. Since I've started hunting, crossbows have been legal during the archery season. There is no problem with disabled hunters needing permits. People that can't draw the legal weight can still hunt. It opens up alot of new hunting opportunity. For the people that are against the legalization of crossbows. I'm confused as to how that hurt you. Its called choice. I choose to hunt with a compound so I do. If my neighbour chooses to hunt with a crossbow. Good for him. Adkhunter you posted that if slingshots were able to kill a deer should they be legal. Thats like comparing apples to oranges. The difference is sling shots can't kill a deer in a humane fashion. Crossbows can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY911Bowhunter Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] NY911 in your groups article it says that crossbows can shoot to 60 yards. Well so can my compound. The bolt fired from a crossbow reacts the same as an arrow fired from a compound. They both drop as the yardage is increased. I'm involved with different forum in Ontario and I've never heard of anyone shooting a deer with a crossbow past 40 yards. [/ QUOTE ] Actually, the article points out how when cross"bows" were introduced to the area, the manufacturers CLAIMED effectiveness out to 60 yards. The NYB quickly debunked that! The bolt shot for these guns is as effective as an arrow out to just about 30 yards. After that it rapidly loses kinetic energy and does maintain the nessecary kill power. Much like the thoughts of using aluminum arrows over carbon for longer shots at animals like elk and mule deer. Kinda. ****************************************** Yes, this topis gets heated - they always do. Bottom line is not only are we all hunters, but we're all New Yorkers. (with respects to others and their valuable opinions) We may bicker online over this - and no doubt would do the same in person. But it has no bearing on my thoughts of anyone here. I still say - I would be honored to share a camp with any and all of y'all. Conversations such as these and the ones over the new regs that have been proposed, not only keep us involved, but fuel the fire! I tell you what - if I am out in a tree stand next October, and there are no muzzleloader hunters out there with me - I'm gonna feel dang good knowing that I played a role in that! After all - in the end, isn't it about Family, Friends, and the Outdoors? It's what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too_pointer Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... I'm not from N.Y. I'm from Mi. I am also handicapped, that is why I started using a x-bow. Mi. now allows a x-bow during rifle season. Although my x-bow is quite fast, I only shoot 35' or less with it. It drops just like any bow at longer ranges. I don't believe it has any major effect on hunter switching over from a regular bow. I would still be shooting a compound if I had the choice. too_pointer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted March 2, 2005 Report Share Posted March 2, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] There is nothing different in the way a compound bow is shot than any recurve or longbow. All of the same skills of consistancy and form are still required. Why would I even have to explain that to anyone who is really a bowhunter? This particular argument is always brought up in crossbow discussions and it continues to amaze me how any member of an archery forum would even try to make that same old tired comparison. The hunting and shooting skills and shooting procedures are exactly the same between the compound and the longbow. These are what makes archery...archery. It seems like the crossbow proponents really don't understand that for some reason. What really tells the story is that they are always trying to use the compound as an excuse to stretch the definition of archery further and further. One has to really wonder just how far they would continue to stretch that definition if archery was to include crossbows as well. [/ QUOTE ] Doc, tell me, how many longbows and recurves have 75% let off.Tell me me where do you put the cable on one?When your recurves outta tune which cam do you adjust?Whats the average speed of a modern compound compared to a recurve or longbow?There nothing like a compound, they dont even function the same as a compound.Everythings different from the way energies stored in them to the amount of time you can hold one back.Why are compounds so popular with archers?Because theyre easier to shoot then recurves or longbows.Otherwise everyone would still be shooting traditional equipment.And when they came out a lotta traditional shooters felt the same way about em you guys feel about crossbows.Even today a lotta traditional shooters feel that way about em.Look at a crossbow sometime Doc, they look a lot more like a compound than they a compound looks like a longbow or recurve. [ QUOTE ] Do you have some statistics that the rest of us don't? I have never seen anything that says that bowhunter numbers are dropping anywhere. I think that when we see the statement that hunter numbers are declining, we automatically assume that that is happening in every category of hunting. That may very well be an erroneous assumption. [/ QUOTE ] Does it matter which catagory numbers are dropping in?I wasnt aware recruiting people into hunting had to be done only in certain areas of the sport.Dont know about you but I hunt a lotta different things, I didnt start out that way though, I hunted a certian species then slowly got into hunting other game. [ QUOTE ] If a person must switch to a crossbow, they already have "dropped" the sport of bowhunting. Just picking up a crossbow does not mean that you are continuing to bow hunt. Also, if you can pick up a crossbow, you can also pick up a rifle or shotgun, and there's plenty of gun season available to those who want to hunt [/ QUOTE ] And your point is what?If someone prefers sticking an arrow in a deer from 20 yrds away rather than buying a gun license how exactly does that effect you and the way you hunt.And they should have to give up that option because theyre to old.Thats a great attitude and a lotta people share it, im not one of them. [ QUOTE ] The question is.....does crossbow legalization really bring more people into hunting, or does it just move existing gun hunters into the bow season? Or worse yet does it encourage bowhunters to throw down their bows in favor of crossbows? I personally doubt that the total hunter population is altered at all with the legalization of crossbows [/ QUOTE ] Once again, this affects the way you hunt how?You are still free to hunt with your compound.So whats the difference if everyone in the state besides you decides to hunt with a crossbow, it changes nothing for you.The only difference is you can choose to hunt with a compound, right now nobodies free to choose a crossbow.Lots of guys currently hunt both gun and bow season.Pretty self serving IMO that your free to do that while at the same time you dont want to give gun hunters the oppurtunity to hunt archery season.because at the end of the day it boils down to the same thing with a crossbow, compound, recurve, longbow, and thats putting a broadhead throgh a deers vitals at close range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Re: NY Crossbow wishers... [ QUOTE ] Doc, tell me, how many longbows and recurves have 75% let off.Tell me me where do you put the cable on one?When your recurves outta tune which cam do you adjust?...etc. etc. [/ QUOTE ] When manufacturers started applying laminations to the recurve, did that mean that those recurves were no longer bows? How about when somebody decided to stick a pin on their sight window and use it for an aiming device? How about when a guy decided to use a glove to protect his fingers? Did that automatically mean that he was no longer participating in archery. Did the design of take-down recurves exclude them from archery? Absolutely not. And, do you understand why? Simply because, just like cables and pulleys, these were all cosmetic differences that still did not alter the fact that the bow requires exactly the same kinds of disciplines, actions and skills as any of the more primitive bows. Absolutely none of that applies to a x-bow. Why would I even have to explain that to you? If you have participated in shooting both bows and x-bows, it should really be quite obvious. Do I have to go through the endless list of shooting form disciplines that are required to shoot a bow? Do I have to point out that none of those shooting principles apply to crossbows? Those of you who are trying to say that the changes due to compounds is in any way similar to the differences between a crossbow and a longbow are really getting into the area of arguing for argument's sake or just plain don't understand the principles of archery. If that's your story and you're sticking to it, then I guess there's no point in going any farther on that subject. [ QUOTE ] Does it matter which catagory numbers are dropping in? [/ QUOTE ] Well certainly. First of all, let me try to repair the badly distorted context of the discussion. The statement that you made was that hunter numbers are declining because kids can't draw hunting weight bows. I was merely pointing out you really have no proof that hunter numbers in the area that you were talking about (archery) actually are declining. If your belief is that introduction of crossbows into archery season is going to make any significant changes to the hunting population, I must say that that is certainly a bit of a stretch. [ QUOTE ] And your point is what?If someone prefers sticking an arrow in a deer from 20 yrds away rather than buying a gun license how exactly does that effect you and the way you hunt. [/ QUOTE ] Again, I have to restore the context of the statement, so let me just say that you were talking about how the lack of x-bows was depriving an elderly person of bowhunting. My point was clearly stated as being that if old-age forces a person to discontinue shooting a bow, simply replacing that weapon with a x-bow does not magically restore that person to being an archer. In other words, it is not the lack of a x-bow that has forced them out of archery as you stated. And it is not the x-bow that is going to allow them to participate in archery again.....simply because a shooting a crossbow is NOT archery. How that will affect me, I haven't a clue, but I was merely trying to keep your statements accurate. [ QUOTE ] So whats the difference if everyone in the state besides you decides to hunt with a crossbow, it changes nothing for you. [/ QUOTE ] Everyone seems to be hung up on the political necessity of numbers, so I would think the answer to this would be obvious. But for those who do not, let me just say that in order to represent our issues as bowhunters, it is important that we remain the majority stock-holders in our own activity. There is also something else that you seem to be losing track of. Anyone who really values the sport of archery would certainly abhor the loss of identity in the scenario that you describe. It is very hard to explain this to someone who is not dedicated and committed to the sport, and I guess there is no way that I can really explain that to you. It's kind of like if we were to substitute the word "gun" for "crossbow" in your statement. Just like your version of the statement, that gets into a whole dissertation on the challenges, achievements and satisfaction levels of the sport of bowhunting itself. I don't think we have enough bandwidth on this forum to get into that. One just hopes that someone who belongs to an archery forum would kind of understand that without all the explanation. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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