Got a question about Deer Management!!!

[Benjinail]

First off I am from Mississippi if it makes a difference. I am in a hunting club and we have been discussing deer management for several years now. We hunt on about 4000 acres and if I had to guess I would say we have a 5 to 1 does over bucks ratio. This club has been going by the state laws throughout its life as a club. Over the past years the laws have been 5 does and 3 bucks with the bucks having to be 4 points or better. They changed the law on the bucks last year to 10 inches wide or 12 inch main beams.

Now I only shoot bucks that I would consider hanging on the wall and have been pushing the others to do the same. Well I finally got them to talking about it (after years of beating my head against a wall). Since the discussion started we are needing a little help on deciding what to really take out of the Buck heard. Some say only shoot it if your going to mount it and some say that its best to take out say 5 points or less and if its better then that then it must be mountable. Was just wondering what some of you guys might think on the situation.

[Ravin R10 man]

I would not shoot any buck until he was at least 3 years old..by then you will know if he is breeding material..as far as where to start to shoot the others..Id hold the minimum to 8 pt or better, wider than his ears..then bump that up to maybe 10 pt or better as the herd puts some age on it..you will still need to weed out some 8 & 6 pts but they will be old and 130 class bucks by then

also get food plots & supplemental feeding going, and keep a good mineral out there at all times

[victor3ranger]

A good place to start is:

Bucks- 8pts or better, width has to be wider than tip to tip of ears on the inside spread.

Does- ONLY mature does, do not take yearling or 2 1/2yr old does from the herd.

For every buck taken from the property take two mature does.

[TN Bucknasty]

I've seen several MS camps put weight limits on deer. That seems to work okay. On my place, I have a do not shoot list with pictures included. Anything that isn't a yearling and is not on the list is fair game for a guest. If your club members are really good at aging deer, you might try an age limit, but Southern deer are pretty difficult to age sometimes, and you're probably asking for an argument or a fight. That's why states can't put age restrictions on animals.

[rhine16]

I guess what you're asking is about culls..?

I don't cull deer unless I have pictures of them and have decided that they are in fact a cull. For me to have decided that, they must be at least 3 years old and look as if they will never make theirselves into a 125 inch deer... whether that be because of an injury or just horrible genes, such as not putting on anymore points than a mainframe 6.

By the way, what part of MS are you from?

[dogdoc]

As far as culling I don't think culling is effective in a free ranging herd. We can't control genetics in free ranging deer. Age in my opinion is the best way of determining if a buck is a shooter or not but that takes lots of experience and practice aging a buck on the hoof---especially when buck fever sets in on a hunt. Many clubs have the rule that if you shoot it you mount it. If you don't mount it then the hunter pays the mounting fee to the club which is used to improve the habitat (food plot costs). When a hunter has to dish out $400 then they think a little bit more about whether or not to shoot that buck. Five to one doe:buck ratio is a little high. Maybe you need to put an "Earn a Buck" rule where a hunter has to shoot a doe before taking a buck.

todd

[PA_RIDGE_RUNNER]

I just finished reading an article in the PA game news written by a game biologist that blew most of my theories on genetics and which bucks do the breeding. This guy claims his stats are backed up by dna testing. His claim is that all the bucks do the breeding from the dinks to the king of the hill type. It does make some sense when you look at the estrus cycle of the does. Nearly all the does come in heat at about the same time and the dominate buck can only breed so many during that short period. The biologist even stated that when a doe has more than one fawn it is unusual for all the fawns to have been sired by the same buck.

[HuntingPA]

With 5 does to every buck you can bet all the bucks are doing the breeding....no way just the old or dominant one is doing all the work on that many ladies, even way lower ratios are going to get many suitors.

I would work on that ratio in the meantime, remember does have just as much antler genetics floating around in them to pass on as bucks do, they just don;t have the bone to advertise it like bucks do. Like someone said you are not going to change genetics anyway, and truthfully I don't think there are many gene pools out there that are not going to produce the framework a good buck needs. Fact is us hunters have all of our dream buck goals far surpassed already by the deer's genetic makeup...our job is just to get him there by: 1. fatten them up, 2. let the bucks age, and 3. control the number of mouths your habitat is feeding...leave genetics to the heavens and work on what you can control and rest assured the animal did not become the most widely sought after animal because the herd has bad chemistry backstage and all small bucks are always goign to be ugly. Giving them 2-3 years of life can do alot more than any treestand DNA lab can do.

Being from a state that 10 years ago had FEW bucks making it 2.5 years old in most of its normal hunting situations to what we got now, I WILL NEVER UNDERESTIMATE what a couple years can do to that forkhorn you are lookign at in the scope. Put all the other stuff one side of the scale and age in the other....the scale is balanced.

IMHO, The genetic theory is used more by a hunters to justify the younger/smaller bucks they shot when they get back to camp...like they were doing the herd a favor, to cover up their moment of weakness.

Clubs can be a tough sell and frustrating if you are the only one followign the rules...GOOD LUCK, I hope it works out for you. Just remember not to judge your mature bucks based on the ones they get on TV...base them off what your neighbors or others get in that area, if you are doing it right you will be ahead of their game.

Edited December 13, 2010 by HuntingPA

[Benjinail]

I guess what you're asking is about culls..?

I don't cull deer unless I have pictures of them and have decided that they are in fact a cull. For me to have decided that, they must be at least 3 years old and look as if they will never make theirselves into a 125 inch deer... whether that be because of an injury or just horrible genes, such as not putting on anymore points than a mainframe 6.

By the way, what part of MS are you from?

Winona

[hoosierhunter]

Regardless of what your state law states for how many bucks you can take I would look at enforcing a 1 buck rule for a few years and requiring every member to take 2 does for the next year or two. That might help get your ratio back in line a little better

[Benjinail]

Ty for all the responses. It's ashamed that we have good genetics and have a good chance of having something to look forward to in the future with this club but they just informed me this past weekend that they were not going to change any of the rules or put any kind of restrictions on the bucks.

So with that said I will be moving on to try to find a new club to join or maby start my own. Thanks again, oh and BTW they also told me we were taking out to many Does that we were going to take so many that we would never be able to see any deer. All we have taken this year is 25 Does on 4000 acres and the Biologist recommends 40 at a minimum and would rather have 80 taken this year.