Doc

The other night I was getting pretty close to my stand when I heard a bunch of kids screaming and hollering at each other. Pretty soon I saw a family of 5, apparently out hiking. If there were any deer in the area, I'm sure they either moved out or were convinced to stay hunkered down until dark. I was pretty surprised to see anybody up there, because it is about a mile from the state parking lot and a pretty steep climb to get up there. This is state land, and open for use by anyone, and it was one of few nice days that we have had in a long time. While it didn't make me real happy, it was nice to see a family out doing something in nature together. We used to do this sort of thing all the time back when the kids were small. But that really screwed things up pretty bad and it was too late to re-locate. However, that was only the beginning. About 5:00 I started hearing guitars and drums from way back on an old dirt road that runs behind the state land. All that racket was at least 1/2 mile away and I was really amazed that the noise carried so far. Isn't the electronic age wonderful! Now that probably didn't affect the deer any, but it sure does wreck the atmosphere of the hunt. It felt more like I was standing in the parking lot of a beer joint, rather the middle of huge forested hill. And then the guy that owns a camp across the big ravine started working on his cabin. He does that every archery season. The banging of the hammers and the screaming of the circular saws really adds a lot to an evening's hunt. Then just to top everything off, the fireworks started back by where the music was coming from. Bang! Pow! They must have been having quite a party. It used to be that bowhunting was a nice peaceful activity where you got the impression (rightly or wrongly) that you were the only human on the hill, hunting in a relatively pristine and unspoiled semi-wilderness. Boy have times changed and so has the atmosphere of hunting. Yeah, I know, I'm just getting old and grumpy. I guess I have been hunting the same ground way too long. I still have memories of better times. Doc

Re: Whacky Deer Behavior The thing that I really don't understand is why she would try to stalk me. If she's so darn spooky and nervous, and convinced that something is wrong, why not just ignore the area completely? Why is it so important to her to identify what I am? Doc

Re: How close is too close? Well, down our way, the bedding areas are fairly good sized areas of heavy brush and swamp, so if I'm going to hunt the area at all (which I do), my stand could be a couple hundred yards from any bedded deer, or it could be a couple of feet from them. What I have done, is made some entrance trails that allow me to access my stand as quietly as possible. That's the best I can do. The rest is up to luck. The other thing that I have found about bedding areas, is that they change a lot. As often as I find deer bedded up in the heavy thick cover, I have also jumped them out of their beds along the side hill or the top of the hill which consists of your average open hardwoods. They usually find a place that has good visibility and some kind of fallen log or blowdown for cover. So, Identifying a real bedding area around here is not as easy as it sounds. We have no agriculture here, so habitual patterns are not really that common. Doc

Re: Western NY Action? Ontario County (Bristol) has not looked real good for me, so far. Sign and sightings look pretty dismal. Of course, the weather hasn't been real helpful. Yesterday was the first sun that I have seen since the season opened, and we are stuck with a goofy southest wind direction that has been going on for days. That wind direction is so rare that I am not really set up for it in too many of my hunting locations. I have been rained out more days than I have been able to hunt. The weather forecast looks like there may be some changes coming. I hope so. This season has been pretty darn boring so far. Doc

Night before last, I had a deer trying to harrass me. About 3 or 4 hundred yards from my stand, I spooked a deer. It was too far to see what it was, but it ran roughly toward my stand. About 1-1/2 hours into the stand I saw a doe walking crosswise about 100 yards out. She was acting very spooky, and almost sneaking along, but she wasn't looking at me at all and the wind was straight into my face. She turned and started heading straight for my stand, walking and stopping every few steps and staring and staring. She definitely was looking for something. She got about 30 yards away and completely stopped and stood there looking straight at my stand. She couldn't see me because I was completely screened by the stand. Next thing you know, she let out a snort and took off straight away from me on a run. About 1 hour later, here she comes again, from a completely different direction. She was about 50 yards away and doing the same walk and stop and staring gait. Again, she was not looking at me at all. She was walking parallel to my stand and actually got by me by about 40 yards and then went back on her exact steps for about 50 yards and then turned around again and went forward again. She did this about 3 times and then snorted and took off again. Never once did she actually look at me this time. I've never seen this kind of behavior before, but it sure looked like she was trying to find me. I'm guessing that the first deer that I spooked ran up near my stand and watched me go by. She may have lost sight of me and for some reason felt that she just had to find out what I was. That kind of behavior could get her in a whole bunch of trouble when gun season rolls around. She was a pretty good sized doe and I would have taken her if the opportunity had presented itself. Has anyone ever seen this kind of action from a deer? What in the heck was her problem?? Doc

Re: Fencelines In our state, you cannpt retrieve a wounded deer from posted property, unless you get permission to do so first. That generally keeps me hunting away from posted property lines. Doc

Re: Question about shoulder shots with a bow One problem with questions of this sort is that there are always a few anecdotal success stories that make these kinds of shots sound like preferred shot selections to new and inexperienced bowhunters. It's like a subject that came up on another forum about "ham" shots. There were so many replies about devastaing rump shots that one would be left with the impression that a deers rump should be considered a viable shot selection. I am glad to see that this "shoulder shot" discussion has not gone off in that direction. Here, it sounds that most agree that shoulder shots should not be the primary target, but if you accidently get one, you should treat that wound as lethal and put forth the same effort in tracking that you would a double lung hit. To me, that sounds like the proper attitude. Doc

Re: A thought into why we hunt I think it is also possible that our need to hunt has an element to it that is a bit more primal and buried so deep within the human psyche that we can't even truly define it. Humans are predators. We seek out and use the things that God and nature have provided us. We have all of human history genetically bred into us, and that history includes a predatory background that refuses to stay beneath the surface no matter how much we try to deny and ignore it. Today's hunters are just a little more honest about that facet of human nature. Doc

Re: Fair Chase? And how about those "parachute" deer. You know the one's that just appear out of nowhere and stand there staring at you so you can't even get your bow up. Now they have to be using some kind of illegal tactics. And then there is the one where there are too many players on the field. This is the one that gets the ground-standers the worse. A whole bunch of does and fawns come in and spread all around your stand so that you can't make a move without getting caught. Now, that don't seem right! Doc

Re: The NY season so far I really don't like bowhunting in the rain, and this year it looks like it's going to rain all season. I did get out yesterday morning and afternoon. I had a nice doe walked just out of my shooting range at 10:00 am. I spotted two more half way down the hill on my way home. They were bedded and ran off downhill. Other than that, I haven't done too well. Doc

Re: Whould you shoot a deer while waling to your stand Is there any reason not to? Doc

Re: the pressure\'s off now ...lol..got my first deer o [ QUOTE ] now the pressure's off and i can wait on ole big boy... [/ QUOTE ] Pressure?...What kind of pressure? ...Pressure from who? ...Pressure to do what? Congratulations on getting your deer. I'm glad to hear that you were successful, but not too happy to hear that you felt like you were under pressure to do so. Relax....enjoy the experience of hunting. I think you will stay into the sport a lot longer if you don't create pressure to perform. Win, lose or draw, enjoy the hunt. Doc

Ok, I'm willing to hunt by the rules of fair chase, but I think it is only fair if both teams abide by the rules. We all know that deer trails are for deer to walk on. The object is for them is to either use another trail, or for them to get by the trail that I am watching without me being able to get them. I wish to register a protest. Yesterday, one of the deer violated the rules by walking parallel to the trail but 10 yards on the other side which put her outside my effective shooting distance of 25 yards. She knew she was violating the rules but chose to disregard the rules of fair chase anyway. Now, if these deer are going to cheat, we need some kind of referees out there to control the game! I mean some kind of guys with striped shirts that are there to throw down a yellow flag when an infraction occurs. Some kind of penalty has to be assessed when one team or the other decides to blatantly disregard the rules. I hope we can get this thing straightened out without having to resort to such measures, but this kind of illegal procedure has been happening all too frequently lately and I , for one, would like to see a stop put to it! Doc

Re: Mossy Oak Forums........... My choices of camo have absolutely no connection with my participation here or any other forum. Doc

Re: First Deer with a Bow [ QUOTE ] I finally got my first deer with a bow. [/ QUOTE ] I never had a lot of luck finding them bow carrying deer, but I'll keep on looking! You all probably didn't need that, did you? Doc

Re: Fixed Pins or Single pin 2 fixed ring-pins..........a 20 yard and a 30 yard. I don't use the 30 yard ring for hunting except to get the 25 yard shot between the two. Doc

Re: Rainy Day Bowhunting Well, here's something to think about. Rainy day evening hunts can often result in after-dark blood trailing. About the only thing that makes after-dark blood trailing even possible is the fact that blood is wet and will reflect back at a light source. That little bit of assistance is gone completely when the entire ground is wet. You had better have one heck of a good blood trail. Doc

Re: Call a deer with a turkey call,,,, There have been quite a few times when I have seen deer in close proximity of turkeys. Often enough so that I don't think it was just an accident. If you think about the diet of both, you will see a lot of similarities. It could be that when deer see turkeys, they know that there is a good food source nearby. However, there has only been one occasion where I believe a deer came in because I was using my turkey call. That's not exactly enough occurances that I would start using a turkey call to attract deer. Doc

Re: Is it wrong to use dogs to deer hunt with? I'm sure it would be different for the hunter who actually got the deer, but if somebody showed me a huge buck that they got by using dogs, I would have the same reaction as I would seeing a huge buck killed with a truck. Both showed good aim and nothing more. Doc

Re: Is it wrong to use dogs to deer hunt with? This is a tough question to answer since I have never tried it. I'm sure it can be a pretty exciting way to hunt, but I have problems with it from several different aspects. First of all, I have never been real big on running shots at deer. As I understand it, that is usually the kind of shots taken with dog-chased deer. Second, I would think it would be pretty disruptive to the hunting of others who chose not to use dogs. I would think that for still hunters and stand hunters who have put in a lot of time scouting, and trying to pattern their deer this kind of hunting would completely screw up all their hours of efforts. I don't think it is right for hunters to ruin the hunt for other hunters any more than it is for anti-hunters to harrass hunters. Over-all, I suspect that it is probably a bad practice, but I'm sure there are parts of the country where it has become a tradition. Like I said, it's a pretty tough question. Here in NY, if it was to be considered for legalization, I would fight it. Doc

Re: Rainy Day Bowhunting [ QUOTE ] some of my best days was when it was misting [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, you're right. I have seen a fair amount of activity on wet days. And, I swear that there are times when the deer just go into a mental state of depression. They seem to walk around with their heads drooped down and really aren't as sharp as during dryer weather. It really is good ambush weather. And, of course those guys that are into still hunting, I would imagine live for damp rainy weather. But I still have a problem with potential blood trail loss if the rain starts to really pour after the shot. Oh, and there's one other little goody that is supposed to come with this rain and that is high winds. Now that's almost worse news than the rain. That is one thing that will really bug the deer. They don't seem to move as well, and those that do are just constantly on set. The combination of the rain and wind, will probably keep me indoors. Doc

Re: Morning or afternoon? Stictly for my own comfort, I prefer evenings. I can be pretty lazy sometimes. However, percentage-wise, I have been much more productive in the mornings. When I can pry myself out there in the morning, a lot of them have produced more deer sightings and shot opportunities. This year, I am going to make a better effort to do it right and get out there and hunt both mornings and afternoons. By the way, it's nice to know that you have the entire day of broad daylight to do your bloodtrailing when you are hunting the mornings. It makes things a lot easier. Doc

Well, the New York bowseason is about to start Friday, and they are calling for an all-day rain. Now, just because they are predicting it doesn't mean that it will happen, but it does bring up a question. It's opening day. They are calling for rain all day, occasionally heavy. You get up in the morning and sure enough, it is raining. Do you crawl back in the sack or bravely put on your rain gear and head out? This kind of scenario poses all kinds of problems for me. First of all, let me say that I have some pretty good rain gear and a nice dry house with a nice change of dry clothes is never really that far away, so comfort is not really an issue. What is an issue is the danger of losing a bloodtrail due to any potential downpours. Unless you take right off like a marathon runner after a hit deer, steady heavy rain can dilute blood sign almost completely and make, what would normally be just a challenging blood trail, become a complete impossibility. While it may not be raining that hard when you leave for your stand, the potential for one of these "gully washers" always lurks in the skies on these types of days. You know how crappy you feel when you lose a hit deer under any circumstances, and how a wounding loss could destroy your attitude and enjoyment for rest of the season, but this weather is putting the odds in favor of that happening. On the other hand, this is opening day. You have been waiting and preparing all year for this day. Also, it is understood that deer still move quite nicely on this kind of rainy drippy day and often seem to be walking around in a funk that just has them not paying attention like they normally would. There are also some scent and sound-dampening aspects to a rainy day. Could be that you even took the day off from work to go hunting. That's some pretty heavy pressure to get out there in spite of the weather. I'm retired now, so I can be a bit more chosey than some, so I think that if it is raining Friday morning, I probably won't go out until it shows some signs of ending. So, what do each of you do under these circumstances? Doc

Re: Read on stand? Ah, you must be talking about one of the commercial pop-up type blinds. That certainly would help. I hunt from a blind too, but I am not totally enclosed (built on location from surrounding materials), and since deer can approach from several directions, I have to be very careful about movement. I also have to be very attentive because depending on where the deer actually comes from, occasionally there is some slight re-positioning required. That's what makes it important that I see the deer as soon as possible. Doc

Re: The ghost deer meant to be? I usually try to take the time to read my posts over before I hit that submit button. That was a great story, but quite painful to read. I know.......picky, picky, picky. But you almost lost me there a couple of times. Doc