AJ Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Re: Jumping the string There are plenty of videos out there that show how fast they can do the squat. Check out this web page. In 1/8 of a second the deer moved 8" and it was calm. Ok, since some people have problems with math, I will help out. An arrow launching at 305 fps will cover 38 feet in 1/8 of a second. Actually its even less since the arrow is slowing down once it leaves the string. Time of flight to 10 yards is about .098 seconds for my particular setup. Now, at very close range from an elevated stand, the vital area is smaller (than when the deer is broadside) due to the angle. This does depend on how high the hunter is. If you shoot a younger deer that does not have a huge chest, its getting tougher and tougher. Holding for a center lung shot will allow the deer to jump the string. The deer does not think and act like humans. When they are alarmed they hide or escape. They don't care what made the noise, just that there is a nose. They hear a noise and move. Just like jumping, if you stand rigid, you can not jump. You have to load the muscles. Squatting will allow the muscles to load. The deer is not ducking the arrow on purpose, its simply jumping away. The first act to jump is squatting. Judging from articles I have read on this subject and my personal experiences, I will go with the idea of some deer are more skitish than others. It does not matter if they are calm, alarmed, close or far. I have not seen a common condition that will lean torwards it happening. Sometimes it happens, sometimes it does not. Sorry guys, I believe the math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Finn Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Re: Jumping the string AJ, Thanks for that website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Re: Jumping the string If an arrow is traveling 270fps out of the bow...set up a cono at 30 feet and see how much speed it lost. I maybe wrong...but the speed of sound doesn't slow down...your arrow does. If you do the math (like AJ) said...that deer could have heard your bow/arrow 4 times before the arrow travels 30ft. I'm with AJ...math doesn't lie! Theories and opinions are great and everyone has one...but when the facts are different than your opinion...sorry, but your wrong and your opinion doesn't matter then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Re: Jumping the string Great web page AJ! Thanks. I like Pat Lefemine's admission about showing where he should have aimed. That's exactly where I try to aim too. Just betters your odds. I was also thinking that everyone is expressing their opinion based on their own experience where they hunt. I know here at home these suckers are skiddish. Without a doubt they are the spookiest deer of any state I've ever hunted. So far I've deer hunted in 8 different states. Probably the ones that seemed to be the least skiddish were the deer I've hunted in Texas and Iowa. I have to exclude mulies though. From my experience they just stand there and stare at you until the arrow hits home. I can assure you of one thing though. If you aren't aiming where Pat Lefemine said he should have been aiming at a deer here in MS, your odds of missing or worse yet making a high hit are far greater than hitting within the vitals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string Dunno.......... I looked at the video clip. I ain't trying to start anything here. I'm really not. But, by my ability to analyze that shot.....that arrow would not have hit that deer even if she hadn't moved an inch. It was considerably high. He can put the green spot wherever he wants. Maybe that's where he was aiming. But it isn't anywhere near where the arrow went. Lay a straight edge (credit card or something) along the doe's back line as she's at rest. Now watch where the arrow goes in relation to that line. I will not argue the fact that a deer can and will duck and roll at an amazingly fast rate. I've seen it with my own two eyes lots of times. I guess we can do math 'til the cows come home. The rest of my theory is based on practical application in the field. Maybe some of you in other parts of the country are hunting these "super deer" that can avoid a 300 fps arrow at 10 yards. I haven't run into a one of them since I started shooting arrows at them in 1978. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string [ QUOTE ] Maybe some of you in other parts of the country are hunting these "super deer" that can avoid a 300 fps arrow at 10 yards. I haven't run into a one of them since I started shooting arrows at them in 1978. [/ QUOTE ] That's because you shoot those toads ya have in PA. Check out how wild deer act and its an eye opener. LOL! Just messing with ya Strut. We don't have to agree on everything, I still look up to you Buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string I know you're just messin' with me. Somebody's got to...........just to keep me honest. But did you check out the video with a straight edge?? Maybe I'm screwy. O.K............. probably I'm screwy. But it sure looks to me like that shot was a brick from the word "go". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string Not knowing how high the shooter was, I can't say for sure. I have stuck many deer from 30 feet up and the entry has to be on the high side to get both lungs. Usually, I have to aim between the shoulders when I am at nose bleed height. Yes, I have missed deer within 3 yards from my tree as they jumped the string. Looking at the angle of the arrow, the green dot is too low for an aiming point. From where I would hold on that shot, the shooter was a little high, but it should have been good enough for a clean kill if the doe did not squat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddhunter Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string [ QUOTE ] There are plenty of videos out there that show how fast they can do the squat. Check out this web page. In 1/8 of a second the deer moved 8" and it was calm. Ok, since some people have problems with math, I will help out. An arrow launching at 305 fps will cover 38 feet in 1/8 of a second. Actually its even less since the arrow is slowing down once it leaves the string. Time of flight to 10 yards is about .098 seconds for my particular setup. Now, at very close range from an elevated stand, the vital area is smaller (than when the deer is broadside) due to the angle. This does depend on how high the hunter is. If you shoot a younger deer that does not have a huge chest, its getting tougher and tougher. Holding for a center lung shot will allow the deer to jump the string. [/ QUOTE ] So I was wrong maybe they can move 16 inches at 20yards!!!!!!!!!!!! Atleast I was half right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeviShot Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string Great web page.I think I need to change my name to CANOFWORMS because I have opened one on my last 2 post.Thanks guy's for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string All very good answers to your question. Lets say that your outside dry air temperature is 40F. Do you know that the sound travels at a rate of 1096.1650627004955 FPS(not to put too fine of a point on it...LOL). Prevent it??? Personally I Dont think thats possible. Most peoples bows are shooting in the area of about 1/4 that speed. Personally though...I still do not want anyone yelling: "Hey...I just shot an arrow at you". How long will it take for me to decifer the sounds I heard and then react??? How far away from me are they??? The Speed of Sound in Dry Air Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stsi36 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string just shoot barely lower than you would so you can hit the deer as it drops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string [ QUOTE ] I still look up to you Buddy. [/ QUOTE ] Me too...he's a good 5-6" taller than me! However, he is screwy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Re: Jumping the string [ QUOTE ] But did you check out the video with a straight edge?? Maybe I'm screwy. O.K............. probably I'm screwy. But it sure looks to me like that shot was a brick from the word "go". [/ QUOTE ] No need to get personal about yourself there Strut. Yep I saw it too and didn't really need a straight edge to see that the spot was his imeantabeeshootinhere spot. Looked like he shot over her to me. The fat lady was laughing, not singing. Still that doe sure ducked that spot real good. I'm hunting skitso, paranoid deer down here in MS that react just like that. Also our mature does average only 115 to 120 pounds live weight. We weigh them before gutting for the DMAP data we send to the state. That's probably a pretty small target compared to the size of those PA deer. Maybe a smaller greyhound looking nanny is quicker than those big fat ones you have up there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thegoat273 Posted July 17, 2005 Report Share Posted July 17, 2005 Re: Jumping the string I agree with John, you have to silence your bow. There are some deer that just appear to be on alert and you are behind the 8-ball from the start there. good luck and shoot straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted July 20, 2005 Report Share Posted July 20, 2005 Re: Jumping the string [ QUOTE ] Prevent it??? Personally I Dont think thats possible. [/ QUOTE ] A bunch of years ago, my son and I did an experiment that showed that he could "jump the string". No, I didn't shoot at him. We set up a cardboard target on a slider wire that was attached to his belt while he was safely off to the side hidden behind a shed. He couldn't see the bow and could only react to the sound of the bow. At 20 yards, he was able to move the target an average of 12". Not bad for a human with human senses, reflexes and reactions. What do you suppose a deer could do? Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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