SuperMn106 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Has anyone been seeing what this guy is doing? He is just another selfish player. He refuses to swith from 2nd to the outfield. The team already has a lot better 2nd baseman than him. I would put him on the DQ list so he does not get paid untill he straightens up his attitude. I dont know about you guys but for that much money i would play anywhere. It wouldnt matter where i played as long as it was helping the team. Over the last 5 years he has had 105 errors. The guy they already have there has made 41 in that time span. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Chief Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? I don't know what part of team he doesn't get but... I agree DQ him and let him sit w/o pay. The outfield wwill look pretty good then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? I think the GM is more to blame then anybody. Apparently everybody on the planet knew this was going to happen except for him. You better check the guy out before you trade for him, the same thing has happened on every team Soriano has played for. By the way, this guy is one of the worst defensive players ever at 2nd base, just how good do you think he is going to be if you stick him at a position he has never played before? He'll probably stink even worse.I guess we will find out today, because he has decided he is going to give left field a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Chief Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? I just read he ha$ agreed to play left field. Wonder what the driving factor wa$ in hi$ deci$ion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? [ QUOTE ] I just read he ha$ agreed to play left field. Wonder what the driving factor wa$ in hi$ deci$ion. [/ QUOTE ] No, money was the reason why he DID NOT want play left field. He is worth about half as much as a left fielder then he was as a second baseman and he knows it. Thats why he didnt want to play out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMn106 Posted March 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? Left field is the one position in baseball where you can put a weak link in your defense and partially get away with it. I agree money was his decision to play. If he said no he would, the team could have put him on the DQ list WITH OUT pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I just read he ha$ agreed to play left field. Wonder what the driving factor wa$ in hi$ deci$ion. [/ QUOTE ] No, money was the reason why he DID NOT want play left field. He is worth about half as much as a left fielder then he was as a second baseman and he knows it. Thats why he didnt want to play out there. [/ QUOTE ] Yup, that's the truth. Leftfielders who put up his kinds of numbers are not that uncommon...but 2 baggers with that kind of power are rare. To bad the bum couldn't field a grounder. I heard since '01 he has committed 100 some odd errors...the next highest 2Bman was Ray Durham with 50 some. Still like his offensive game though. If he was smart he'd get his arsh into some outfield practice...he's got the speed to play centerfield and he'd be worth more out there. Don't think that will happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Chief Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? What I was meaning was the pay he is currently getting and playing left field is better than nothing. Which he could have received had he kept it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? [ QUOTE ] What I was meaning was the pay he is currently getting and playing left field is better than nothing. Which he could have received had he kept it up. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, I agreed with boths your points actually. I guess when the little nancy boy realized he might be letting go of that 10 mil a year contract to PLAY baseball...left field didn't look all that bad huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? [ QUOTE ] Yup, that's the truth. Leftfielders who put up his kinds of numbers are not that uncommon...but 2 baggers with that kind of power are rare. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly. He's worth $50-$60 mil at 2nd base and probably $30 mil, if that, in left field. Thats why he doesnt want to go out there. But, he is also making $10 mil this year alone so, as mentioned above, they didnt need to light to big a fire under his arsh to get him out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? [ QUOTE ] I think the GM is more to blame then anybody. [/ QUOTE ] I'll agree with you there, John. Personally, I can't stand Soriano. He's a distraction in the clubhouse and strikes out way too much for me but part of me sympathizes with him. You know, if left at second, Soriano could set all kinds of records for a second baseman. He would almost definitely be guaranteed a spot in the Hall and as far as market value goes, he would continue to be paid as one of the best 2nd base options out there. The GM or manager should have made it plain at the beginning where they wanted him to play. You can say that they didn't know or weren't for sure but you'd be wrong. I guarantee that they knew their plans before they spent the 10 million per year(?). Don't get me wrong. I still despise Soriano because he's not a team player. And yes, the fact that he didn't take the move quietly reinerates the fact but here's the way I look at it: If the President of the bank were to come to me today and say Kevin, we're moving you to the teller line. Your pay is gonna be the same and from the way things look, it's gonna be permanent. Now I'm one of the biggest team players there is when it comes to my job, but I would quit in this scenario. No doubt. I'd be finding another job. And do you know how ticked off I would be if I had just signed a contract and started this job after being offered to be in the loan department? Bottom line. Soriano is a selfish, free swinger that in my opinion is a detriment to any clubhouse BUT he shouldn't have been treated the way he was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? You make good points Kev, but I have to disagree to a certain extent. If you're getting paid 8 figures to play a game, you have no room for whining...you do what you're asked, and what you're told. These guys have it to good, and they get paid way to much. Yeah it's fun to watch, but it's just a game, these players have it in their heads that they are special, but who can blame them, if one owner doesn't shell out 10 mil a year for a guy like Soriano...somebody else will. The whole system is out of whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Chief Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? [ QUOTE ] The whole system is out of whack. [/ QUOTE ] Well that about covers it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? [ QUOTE ] If you're getting paid 8 figures to play a game, you have no room for whining...you do what you're asked, and what you're told. These guys have it to good, and they get paid way to much. [/ QUOTE ] That brings up a whole other argument. The players are paid 10 million because they're worth 10 million. In my mind, we have two choices: lower the prices at the stadium or pay the players more. Why should the people behind the scene make all the money?? It just tans my hide when a franchise clears 100's of millions of dollars and then raises ticket prices the next year. If you ask me, its the players that should reap the rewards if there are any. As for the system being out of whack, I agree. I would like to see a different sort of "luxury tax" in professional sports. Put a limit on how much profit a franchise can earn. Once they pass the limit, they share the wealth. The same goes for players salaries. Once they reach a certain limit, anything over that amount, a certain percentage is put into the player's(as a whole) retirement fund. Bottom line, if someone is going to get rich off major league baseball, it should be the guys playing and not the guys behind the scenes. Or at least that's what Snap and Crackle said this morning. I think Pop agrees with you.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? Kevin what you need is someone to snap, crackle, and pop your arsh...if it wasn't such a long drive, I'd love to me that guy. j/k as much as it has pained you, it pains to admit this too. But those are great points. I really like the players pension fund idea...you should be a banker! It all comes down to greed, how much is to much sorta thing? I know stadiums cost a ton of money to build, but if these owners could lower ticket prices a ton and they still wouldn't be starving. It would be nice if the owners could just be happy with a profit of 50 mil a year, we'd all be a lot better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? Amen. If they want to cap the player's salary, cap the owner's, the president's, the GM's, the VP's, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? [ QUOTE ] this guy is one of the worst defensive players ever at 2nd base, [/ QUOTE ] yea but a lot of teams overlook that for a bat of his caliber [ QUOTE ] Left field is the one position in baseball where you can put a weak link in your defense and partially get away with it. [/ QUOTE ] I don't think he would be a weak link in the outfield. You can take an average infielder and be an excellent outfielder if he's got the speed. Easier to catch a pop-fly then a hard hit bouncing grounder and then try to turn a double play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMn106 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? he might not be the weak link in a little bit but it will take him time to adjust to the outfield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? [ QUOTE ] I don't think he would be a weak link in the outfield. You can take an average infielder and be an excellent outfielder if he's got the speed. Easier to catch a pop-fly then a hard hit bouncing grounder and then try to turn a double play. [/ QUOTE ] Outfield not as easy as you think Todd. Sure a pop fly is easier to catch than a hard hit bouncing grounder. But not everything hit to the outfield is popup. You've knucklers every once in a while and then you've got the hard hit line drive that you've got to pick up off the bat which direction its taking. Once you get the direction you've got to get the distance. Good outfielders have "getting the jump" on a ball down to an art. It takes time to learn. Then you've got the relay. Throwing as hard as you can to where the cutoff man could grab the ball if needed but still be able to hit the catcher on the bounce to catch the guy going home. I'm an infielder. I was a pretty good defensive shortstop in my day and let me tell you, if you're not used to the outfield it can make you look like a uncoordinated fool out there. It does take a lot of experience. He will be a weak link for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyman Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? Barry Bonds is living proof that you don't have to be strong defensively to be a successful outfielder. Soriano's contract is guaranteed, he'll ride it out until he gets traded, or his contract is up, then play second base somewhere else. It's not like this dooms him to the outfield forever. Offensive numbers like his usually outweigh all but the worst defensive liabilities! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? I'm getting a little curious as to where this thought that Barry Bonds isnt a good outfielder is coming from? I've heard this Bonds and Soriano comparison from a few different people now and I dont really understand it. The guy won something like 8 straight gold gloves. In recent years he hasnt been as good because of his knees and the cow hormones he was taking, but that guy was probably the best defensive left fielder in the game for a decade. I agree with MCH, I dont think Soriano is just going to walk out there and be just fine. Matter of fact, if I remember right somebody on the Rangers staff said that as bad as his defense is he struggles with catching fly balls more then anything else. I'll have to look for that quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? The problem with Bonds is the same with Soriano. He has created a negative image of himself so negativity gravitates toward him. Bonds used to be one of the best defensive outfielders in the game. But like John said, his knees have hurt him badly. He can't pivot and turn like he used to and this really hurts him on balls over his head. He doesn't bend like he use to and you'll never see him dive anymore. He could be the best DH in the history of the game if he were in the American league but instead he's one of the worst defensive left fielders in the National League right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? Kevin---it's much easier for an infielder to got out then an outfielder in. Sure--he's got to get his timing down for the outfield but he'll do fine. "The problem with Bonds is the same with Soriano." I wouldn't go that far but I see your point. "Rangers staff said that as bad as his defense is he struggles with catching fly balls more then anything else." A good example is Conseco---horrible in the field but a good bat. It's all about offense baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdickey Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? Anybody ever hear of Manny Ramirez? That guy can't catch a beachball.... but he can hit! F.Y.I 2005 Fielding percentage stats.... Alex Rodriguez - .971 Alfonso Soriano - .972 Major leagues have always been about hitting, especially the long ball! If a player can do other stuff above average... that's just a bonus for the team... and that player's pockets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okbowman Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 Re: Alfonso Soriano? I'm just glad he's not in Texas anymore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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