rossman Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 I was reading their entry from realtree's homepage and I was wondering what you all thought. The following section was in the story!! Missed Opportunities After a couple of days hunting the Pea Patch, Jesse spotted a 10-pointer with a broken G2. On the third evening of the hunt, he finally got a shot at it from about 45 yards. Surprisingly, he missed it. Jesse was just sick about missing that deer. The evening before Jesse's miss, Ginger had missed a good buck at about 60 yards. Even though they both missed really nice bucks, they were tickled to death to at least have the opportunity to harvest deer in this remarkable region of Montana. They both know that harvesting a deer is never a sure thing. So they had good attitudes about their misses and enjoyed every second of their hunts. What I was pondering. Why would they wonder why they missed at 45 and especially 60 yards. They may be great shooters. But why would you take shots like this, especially 60 yards. Personally, I am glad they missed. If they are flinging arrows at 60 yards, they have really missed the boat. What do they think people will do after seeing them kill a buck at such a distance? They will try it themselves. I don't get it, they should practice what they preach about ethical hunting. Maybe they risked it because they traveled such a distance. A deer is a deer. Would they make this shot in their own backyard. I hope not. Give me your thoughts. It is such a discrace and I hope they regret every second of it, not enjoyed every second!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! It all depends on their skill level. Personally i wouldn't dream of it. I do wonder about them being surprised though particularly since a deer can duck an arrow at 25 yards, at 60 it could be 6 feet forward. We can just hope that they are good shooters comfortable with that shot, and just happend to miss like we all do from time to time. I would suspect realtree would not associate with irresponsible arrowflingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! Shooting foam or paper at 60 yards is all soooooo different than shooting animals. Guess they learned the hard way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archerjg Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! 30 is my personal limit. If they regulary practice out to those yardages and can consistently hit, it probably did surprise them that they missed. Like someone else said shooting at the real thing is totally different than shooting at foam targets. Archerjg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY911Bowhunter Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! I agree - questionable shots regardless of shooting abaility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Finn Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! I'd like to see their average broadhead grouping at 60 yards. Maybe they are that good, but would like to see proof other than they are world class shooters. Personally, I'm not near that good and only shoot inside of 30 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanH Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! ITs there Skill level! I have not heard of anyone knocking Micheal Waddell when he took a 50 yard perfect shot on a buck! He did last year! Is he an ethical hunter???? Of course he is! He knows what he can do! Is it just not an issue because he harvested it???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiganbowhunter_SQ2 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! i think i am gunna have to disagree with everyone who is saying it was a bad unethical shot....some of you say that a 60 yard shot at foam or paper is different than shoting at a real animal...i agree with that...but so is any other shot....how many of you practice by shooting at live animals?? i'm guessing NONE....so if you or anyone else is comfortable shooting from 10-25 or maybe even 30 and 35 yards...why should they be criticized for taking a shot they are comfortable with? its not like they were new to the sport and just did it for no reason..these are great archers here who know what they are capable of...maybe you guys should just stick to what you are comfortable with and let them do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck2 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! This thread has certainly got us thinking and there seems to be some disagreement as to whether shots of the distances mentioned are ethical or not. Here's my opinion, and while I may disagree with some of you, I do respect what you have to say - it's just that you're wrong. No, I don't think we should just say 'whatever they're comfortable with' and stick to our own comfort levels. The criticism is legitimate, no matter how good you can shoot. There are too many variables when dealing with live animals and they can move substantially while the arrow is travelling in their general direction; more so the farther away they are. I'm happy that everyone here seems to be intent on keeping within personal limits. That's good, although that term probably has different definitions for different people. What percentage of bowhunters shoot over 100 shots a year? (lots don't) 1000? 10000? I shoot well over 10000 and compete regularly at 60 yard distances, which takes a fair bit of practice to do adequately. But there's no way I'd even consider shooting at a live animal anywhere close to that distance. Fine and dandy to say someone took a 50 yard shot and harvested the animal cleanly, so there's no issue. Well, by the same token, when a 50 yard shot is missed, there is then certainly an issue. In short, world class archers or not, I don't believe it was appropriate to be shooting at those missed distances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! [ QUOTE ] ITs there Skill level! I have not heard of anyone knocking Micheal Waddell when he took a 50 yard perfect shot on a buck! He did last year! Is he an ethical hunter???? Of course he is! He knows what he can do! Is it just not an issue because he harvested it???? [/ QUOTE ] The difference is, he made the shot so we can't knock him. When you miss, it proves you should not shoot those distances. I wasn't so concerned about the 45 yard shot as I was with the 60 yard shot. If your name is "Ginger", how much weight is your bow set at? If it's what I would guess, than the drop of an arrow at 60 yards is severe. Finally, the hunting businesses that shoot live hunts on video, have an obligation to the public. This obligation should include ethical hunting, this means ethical shots. For all of those misses, they don't show us, how many wounded animals do we not see? Why would they show us the ones that got away? Because it would make them look bad. In perspective, totaly missing a deer is a worse shot than wounding one. Not for the deer of course! This means you were not even close!!!! And proves again, they had no business taking this shot. It's like a quarterback calling another play than what the offensive coordinators original play was. If he scores, which is less probable, then he is a hero. If he misses, which is more probable, than he is a chump!!!! Some like to make excuses from them because they are world class archers. I don't care if your from tinsel town. It does not give you the right to take unethical shots. Just my opinion, but I could be wrong!!!!--rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiganbowhunter_SQ2 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! [ QUOTE ] When you miss, it proves you should not shoot those distances. [/ QUOTE ] so basically you are saying that no one has any right shooting any deer at any distance?....what if you missed a shot at 15 or 20 yards? (which all of us are capable of doing and it has happened to some people)...are you going to stop shooting deer past 15 yards? it was said before...its not like they just seen the deer and took the shot....they are used to adding wind and every other thing that can effect there shot into their shooting. it may not be ethical to you but then again...we are not all here to please you are we [ QUOTE ] It's like a quarterback calling another play than what the offensive coordinators original play was. If he scores, which is less probable, then he is a hero. If he misses, which is more probable, than he is a chump!!!! [/ QUOTE ] Those are called audibles!! [ QUOTE ] It does not give you the right to take unethical shots. [/ QUOTE ] its all up to what you think is unethical...my point is just let them shoot their own shots with out criticizem. who are you to tell someone what an unethical shot is? you don't shoot like they do or as much as they do...how many of you have hit exactly where you are aiming on a deer every single time you shoot at it? would you consider that unethical shooting? if they would have hit the deer we would be having this discussion. so like i said before...stick you what you feel is a comfortabl shot for YOU..and let everyone else make thier own decisions on the shots that they feel comfortable with! if they are capable and have the equipment..LET THEM BE! you weren't there you don't know what they went through before the shot! they could tell you...that you shouldn't take any more 20 yard shot cause you missed once..would you stop doing it? i'm guessing NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Broncho10 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! I just have one thing to say, to each his own. If someone wants to do it their way, then let them, it does not affect you and you shouldn't worry about it. If they would have come out successful, there would be a post in here stating what tremendous and outstanding shots they made. Quit riding the high horse like you guys are the most ethical shooters that has ever been in the woods. I know I have had my heart and adrenaline going before and have made some poor decisions that I normally wouldn't make. Just back off and leave this alone, as long as this does not directly affect you, you shouldn't bother arguing about it. Just my $.02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] When you miss, it proves you should not shoot those distances. [/ QUOTE ] so basically you are saying that no one has any right shooting any deer at any distance?....what if you missed a shot at 15 or 20 yards? (which all of us are capable of doing and it has happened to some people)...are you going to stop shooting deer past 15 yards? it was said before...its not like they just seen the deer and took the shot....they are used to adding wind and every other thing that can effect there shot into their shooting. it may not be ethical to you but then again...we are not all here to please you are we [ QUOTE ] It's like a quarterback calling another play than what the offensive coordinators original play was. If he scores, which is less probable, then he is a hero. If he misses, which is more probable, than he is a chump!!!! [/ QUOTE ] Those are called audibles!! [ QUOTE ] It does not give you the right to take unethical shots. [/ QUOTE ] its all up to what you think is unethical...my point is just let them shoot their own shots with out criticizem. who are you to tell someone what an unethical shot is? you don't shoot like they do or as much as they do...how many of you have hit exactly where you are aiming on a deer every single time you shoot at it? would you consider that unethical shooting? if they would have hit the deer we would be having this discussion. so like i said before...stick you what you feel is a comfortabl shot for YOU..and let everyone else make thier own decisions on the shots that they feel comfortable with! if they are capable and have the equipment..LET THEM BE! you weren't there you don't know what they went through before the shot! they could tell you...that you shouldn't take any more 20 yard shot cause you missed once..would you stop doing it? i'm guessing NO. [/ QUOTE ] Audible, what does that mean? I will ride my high horse. I take alot of pride in being an ethical hunter, I do not respect hunters who are unethical and take any shot there is. It's just how I hunt. I don't know the situation? Let me give it a guess. A deer walked out and stopped at 60 yards. How else could it happen. Is 60 yards different in michigan than new york? Or is 60 yards, 60 yards. Whatever you may think, it is a very far shot to take with a bow. Even a crack shot like yourself, many variables can take place. A deer can put his shoulderback, duck, take a step right before the shot and have the arrow hit the guts. As for criticism, the correct spelling!!!! Why not criticize. You can learn many things by this. We all learn a great deal from other peoples mistakes. Like this one, we should learn not to take a 60 yard shot. because even the so called "best" can not do it!!!!! As for being capable, they just proved that they are not!!!! We take shots that are the most probable, not shots that are 100%. It is highly probable to make a 20 yard shot, not a 60 yard shot. This missing at 20 yards and not taking it again is not a valid argument and you know this, so no response in necessary!!!!! Have a good day wise one!!!!--rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiganbowhunter_SQ2 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! so basically we all should go by what you are saying and the only opinion that matters is yours? everything that everyone believes is ethical has to agree with your ethics right? you say we take shots that are the most probable right? well to you a 20 yard shot may be probable but to others it might be...and yes they are allowed...A LONGER SHOT...these people make a living out of taking these long shots...and just because a couple people think it is wrong they should stop doing it? missing a 60 yard shot and not taking it again IS the same as taking a 20 yard shot and missing it....it is a valid arguement ...you just don't care to see it that way...your EXACT words were...WHEN YOU MISS, IT PROVES YOU SHOULD NOT SHOOT AT THOSE DISTANCES. as for the mispelling..BOO FREAKIN HOO!! so i spelled a word wrong...THANKS FOR POINTING IT OUT, I"LL BE SURE TO SEND YOU A CHRISTMAS CARD FOR IT! HAVE A GOOD DAY MR. "I"M AN ETHICAL HUNTER AND ITS ONLY RIGHT WHEN I SAY ITS RIGHT " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanH Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! Rossman i see your point! Not tryin to argue! You know I Love you! LOL So if I shoot at a deer at 20 yards braodside and I miss! Which i have done and everyone has done! Am I unethical???? I hope you see it how i see this post! Were Debating not hating! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted November 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! [ QUOTE ] so basically we all should go by what you are saying and the only opinion that matters is yours? everything that everyone believes is ethical has to agree with your ethics right? you say we take shots that are the most probable right? well to you a 20 yard shot may be probable but to others it might be...and yes they are allowed...A LONGER SHOT...these people make a living out of taking these long shots...and just because a couple people think it is wrong they should stop doing it? missing a 60 yard shot and not taking it again IS the same as taking a 20 yard shot and missing it....it is a valid arguement ...you just don't care to see it that way...your EXACT words were...WHEN YOU MISS, IT PROVES YOU SHOULD NOT SHOOT AT THOSE DISTANCES. as for the mispelling..BOO FREAKIN HOO!! so i spelled a word wrong...THANKS FOR POINTING IT OUT, I"LL BE SURE TO SEND YOU A CHRISTMAS CARD FOR IT! HAVE A GOOD DAY MR. "I"M AN ETHICAL HUNTER AND ITS ONLY RIGHT WHEN I SAY ITS RIGHT " [/ QUOTE ] Wow, it is really easy to get you going! If you could finish my posts, I state, just my opinion. May want to check the spelling on that one! You have your opinion, but you may also be one of those hunters who takes those hale marry's that everybody dreams about. Maybe not! One last question, Is there a better chance to wound a deer at 60 yards or 20 yards, with a bow? I know you know the answer to this one!!!! You can do it!!!!! Just because they are from Realtree, does not mean they are always right. But you may be a super fan, realtree wallpaper, realtree "tool" set, slippers, realtree truck, and maybe even realtree sheets for the bed. You may not even be able to see the wall paper due to mike waddell and bill jordan posters!!!! Have a great day super fan!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiganbowhunter_SQ2 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! your a funny guy..i never said becausae they were from realtree they were right....get your head out of your @%* and realize that people can do what they please. i am a fan of realtree...so what..you obviously are to since you are here...just because you are only confident in taking 20 or 30 yard shot doesn't mean it is unethical for someone else to take a longer shot...to me..or to them....your opinion means crap...i am just stating that people can live thier own lifes and take thier own shots as they please...not just when it satisfies someone else...they aren't out there trying to make sure they are pleasing everyone, they are out there to have fun in a sport that they love, and to harvest an animal that they love to hunt....just like you do everytime you put on your gear and head into the woods. so just let them be and keep your CRITICIZM to yourself HAVE A GREAT DAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! I've watched them shoot at several ASA Pro-Am's and they are good. If they want to shoot at 60 yards, go for it. It's their perrogative and they have to live with the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiganbowhunter_SQ2 Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! Well i thought about it...and decided that the only thing we can agree on is that we disagree....i think its safe to say that niether of our opinions really matter anyways since we cannot control what has already happened...we can only control our own actions when we are out in the woods. with this said i apoligize for getting so heated over a meaning less discussion and hope that there are no hard feelings between rossman and myself. we were both just trying to get our points across and it just got carried away....happy hunting to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washi Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! I don't think 60 yards is the same no matter where you are. I hunt some places where you are lucky to be able to see a deer at 10 yards through the brush but if I hunt a field edge there is nothing but bare ground far past 60 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! [ QUOTE ] I agree with the nay-sayers. It is very un-ethical to shoot at a deer 60 yards away, even if you are a crack shot. In that amount of time a deer, even if it only started a slow walk, could change where the arrow hit from double lung, to double ham. Poor poor decision by these so called "professional" hunters. [/ QUOTE ] and does that make an example about how proffesional they are... i ask what gives you the right to question these people, I consider anything over 225 a long shot with a rifle...because thats about my limits, that said we trust military snipers to take out people at well over a thousand yards. If your comfortable with the shot then take it if not than dont take it, but dont become all stuck up and snobby about it just because you dont have the ability. Secondly i trust realtree to make the decisions about what goes on this site and if they put it in here, and didnt take notice to the shot yardage, or thought it was unethical i dont think it would have made it up there. I think realtree knows a little bit more than you or I about hunting and the pocket books to prove it. These are fellow hunters here folks give them a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetailkiller Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! IF IN FACT IT WAS A BOW HUNT!!!!!!! i would never take a shot over 40.....and right now with my skill level i don't want to shoot past 30, but one of my does this year was at 35 yards!! 60 yards?!!!! i wouldn't even try it for practice!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger-Hunter Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! 40 is my absolute limit regardless of time temperature and wind. But I've only been shooting for 2 years. I'm not a professional hunter like these guys are. Michael Waddell smoked a buck at 50 yards with a perfect heart shot last year or the year before at Milk River, Montana, I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowtechTurkeyHunter Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! who ares if they shoot out too 60 80 or 100 yards if they kill what they are shooting .... if they dont there is the problem its sorta like saying well if I woulda shot that deer at 60 yards and a VW bug falls from the sky and kills it it might have gotten away and not died such a horrible death ... i mean why do we always cite the negative about this crap i mean common these guys are on a tv show promoting what brings us as hunters together on thisforum.....HUNTING .... they didnt wound an animal ..... we can speculate about the VW bug all day long but lets see at the end of the day did we really do anything productive other then argue about what might and coulda happened ... Personally I wouldnt take a 60 yard shot but if I practived it and got proficient at it yeah I would take it but I would have the confidence and security that if I hit it I would kill it .... Which you cant tell me is what they wher doing if they let it fly they expect it too die... after all they are the professionals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted November 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Realtree\'s milk river hunt!!! [ QUOTE ] Well i thought about it...and decided that the only thing we can agree on is that we disagree....i think its safe to say that niether of our opinions really matter anyways since we cannot control what has already happened...we can only control our own actions when we are out in the woods. with this said i apoligize for getting so heated over a meaning less discussion and hope that there are no hard feelings between rossman and myself. we were both just trying to get our points across and it just got carried away....happy hunting to all. [/ QUOTE ] No hard feelings here man!!! We all, are entitled to our own opinions. Just because I disagree with you or anyone else does not mean I don't respect your opinions. I guess my main point was. If they took such a long shot and missed. Why tell anyone? Lot's of archers look up to these professionals. They see and hear what they do and they will go try it. And most of us are not consistent enough to try it. I know I am not good enough to make such a long shot consistently and I will never try it. As for mike waddell. He seems to be the man so until he misses he can take any shot he wants. Just because someone is a professional archer does not mean they are a good hunter. We all need to realize this. Hopfully "ginger" will learn that he/she is not good enough to attempt such a shot!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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