Norm Sauceman Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 This past weekend there was a teenager who was shot by a deer hunter this weekend. The boy should survive his injuries. However...I have been debated my stance on this issue. While YES the hunter, the man with the rifle is to blame for the shooting, I can't bring myself to put %100 on his shoulders for it. Here's why: The boy was hiking a large farm during rifle deer season WITHOUT hunter orange on. He was wearing camo pants and a short with whote on it. Having the great debate on the post about the teenager who was shot in Monterey. Question: DURING RIFLE/MUZZLE LOADER SEASON, how many of you would walk through the woods ( not in your backyard ) without some type of hunter orange on? I am just curious? Lets say Public land or a 500 acre farm you were scouting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil hunter Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: well, to be honest with you, I'd be doing some kind of hunting if I was walkin through the woods during gun season. I never really thought about that question before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NS whitetail Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: I even wear a orange vest if I am riding my 4 wheeler during rifle season. You never know where there is a trigger happy hunter lurking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest huntinsanobsession Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: i wouldn't even walk threw even my yard with out hunter ornge on and even though the kid made a stupid choice about what to wear it goes to everything they teach you in hunter safety and just basic knoledge anyone in the woods should use always know your target and beyond before you fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: After I shot my deer I went back out the next weekend to pick pecans---I wore my blaze orange. Still---no excuse--a hunter has to be 100% sure of his target and what is beyond that target before shooting. Norm, the person behind the gun is still responsible for his shot! The only way I could get around that is if the kid was wearing a deer costume. todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: I myself would never walk through the woods during any open hunting season, without at least a blaze hat. BUT.............. It is up to us as hunters to identify our target. I get is excited as anyone else at the souNd of an aproaching deer. I can't even imagine mistaking a human for a deer. When I'm shooting at a deer, I'm looking at a number of things. Is it broadside, or quartering? I think about where in the deer my slug will go, and exit. Thinking these things, how is it possible to mistake a human for a deer? I believe the bottom line is it is 100% hunters responsibility to identify his target. About 8 or 10 years ago I was hunting a state forest during a snowstorm. I was still hunting, and with the snow falling and on the trees, I was slightly dissoriented. I didn't know exactly where I was. I hear a twig snap, and then another. I get down on one knee, waiting for the deer to show itself. I see brown, and white, but can't see the whole deer. well.... that deer ended up being a teenage girl, walking with one of her friends in the forest, on a main trail, that I didn't realize I was close too. She was wearing a brown suede jacket, with the hood up, and there was white fur around the hood! ( IF THAT'S NOT A RECIPE FOR DISASTER...WHAT IS???) I started shaking so bad when I realized that I almost mistook a person for a deer. Key word here is almost!!! I stood up, and called to the girls...they almost had a heart attack when they saw me. Of course they had no clue it was hunting season. The thing they never realized is that no matter how much I scared them.. I scared me worse!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: I agree that the person who holds the gun, holds 100% of the responsibility. Going for a walk in the woods during gun season, without blaze-orange on may be stupid, but it's only stupid because there are so many irresponsible gun handlers out there who are trigger happy. I feel that anyone, hiker, farmer, whatever should be able to go for a walk in the woods, without being fearful for their life. Where I hunt, hikers are a common sighting. I have never had any close encounters of pulling up my gun or bow prematurely. You should always expect to see a hiker, mushroom picker, or another hunter not wearing orange, as far as I'm concerned. I actually think the whole Hunter-Orange issue is part of the problem. It makes for a lazy mind IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY911Bowhunter Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: Good question Norm.... I have been opposed to mandatory blaze orange from day 1 - but I will say this - I have been wearing a blaze orange hat whil ewalking in the woods ever since my son was born. Doubt i'll ever go the vest route - but I will alwys wear a hat during gun season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tedicast Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: [ QUOTE ] I myself would never walk through the woods during any open hunting season, without at least a blaze hat. BUT.............. It is up to us as hunters to identify our target. I get is excited as anyone else at the souNd of an aproaching deer. I can't even imagine mistaking a human for a deer. When I'm shooting at a deer, I'm looking at a number of things. Is it broadside, or quartering? I think about where in the deer my slug will go, and exit. Thinking these things, how is it possible to mistake a human for a deer? I believe the bottom line is it is 100% hunters responsibility to identify his target. About 8 or 10 years ago I was hunting a state forest during a snowstorm. I was still hunting, and with the snow falling and on the trees, I was slightly dissoriented. I didn't know exactly where I was. I hear a twig snap, and then another. I get down on one knee, waiting for the deer to show itself. I see brown, and white, but can't see the whole deer. well.... that deer ended up being a teenage girl, walking with one of her friends in the forest, on a main trail, that I didn't realize I was close too. She was wearing a brown suede jacket, with the hood up, and there was white fur around the hood! ( IF THAT'S NOT A RECIPE FOR DISASTER...WHAT IS???) I started shaking so bad when I realized that I almost mistook a person for a deer. Key word here is almost!!! I stood up, and called to the girls...they almost had a heart attack when they saw me. Of course they had no clue it was hunting season. The thing they never realized is that no matter how much I scared them.. I scared me worse!!! [/ QUOTE ] I never shouldered my gun during this. Not sure why as I was positve that the brown and white was a deer.!! I often think back, especially when I hear tragic stories and think how close this was to being one of those stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: [ QUOTE ] I agree that the person who holds the gun, holds 100% of the responsibility. Going for a walk in the woods during gun season, without blaze-orange on may be stupid, but it's only stupid because there are so many irresponsible gun handlers out there who are trigger happy. I feel that anyone, hiker, farmer, whatever should be able to go for a walk in the woods, without being fearful for their life. Where I hunt, hikers are a common sighting. I have never had any close encounters of pulling up my gun or bow prematurely. You should always expect to see a hiker, mushroom picker, or another hunter not wearing orange, as far as I'm concerned. I actually think the whole Hunter-Orange issue is part of the problem. It makes for a lazy mind IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Although I wear hunter orange, I have to agree with buckee on this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted December 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: While I agree the hunter is responsible for his actions....do you not fault the kid at all? No common sense, no nothing? It is just the hunters fault period? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY911Bowhunter Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: I blame his mentor or teacher........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: Know your target and beyond it. No excuse for the man shooting the kid whatsoever and he is fully to blame for taking the shot. That said, I do not think it was too bright on the boys part for not wearing orange. Yes he should have had orange on, but that does not take away the fact that the man shot a target he could not possibly have been sure was a deer. I wear my orange hunting on my own property during any of the gun seasons. Make my wife wear orange when she goes horseback riding during the rifle season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Sauceman Posted December 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: That said, I do not think it was too bright on the boys part for not wearing orange. That's all I wanted to hear....Thanks!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: Norm, buddy, friend, goomba..LOL, I have to disagree. I don't understand why a non-hunter, has to dress in hunter orange, just to go for a walk in the woods. That's the problem I see with the mandatory wearing of hunter-orange for hunters. It is a security blanket yes, but at the same time, it has made many hunters lazy when it comes to identifying what they are shooting at. When your hunting in an area where wearing hunter-orange is compulsory, and it has been that way for quite some time, it has the reverse effect of being a safety item. It becomes a false security blanket, because hunters are looking for it and associate it with other people in the bush. It makes their minds lazy, and when they see something that has no orange moving through the bush, their brain tells them it's a deer instead of throwing up caution signals. I think sometimes we try to side-step common-sense, by covering it up with a false safety blanket. The guy with the gun and the trigger is always the guy that has to shoulder the responsibility of not only pulling the trigger, but when to even put the gun to his shoulder. I don't see why anyone, in the general public, shouldn't be able to go for a walk on public land or private land, during hunting season, without the fear of being shot for a deer. Now I do agree that, just like driving, you have to be on the defense when it comes to safety, because you just can't trust the "other" guy. Kind of like getting ran into in an innersection, by a guy running a red light and getting partly blamed because your car is the same color as the road. Around here, it's not compulsory to wear safety orange and we have very few hunting accidents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: The kid sounds about as intellingent as the guy at work who told me he didnt have enough time to get his hunting clothes on so he just wore his carhartts out deer hunting . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: I never go into the woods during deer season without hunter orange. I occasionally take it off once in and sitting, but usually not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10acboy Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: I hunt only private land as of now. During M/L season I don't wear any orange because it is not required. However, I wear both a vest and hat during rifle season, but I take the vest off once I get in my stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: I do not wear orange in ML season. I only wear it when its mandated (general gun season). The shooter was totally at fault. The shooter is the only person that is responsible for positively identifying their target. The kid is not at fault at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDRUNNER Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: IT IS THE SHOOTERS FAULT,BUT I PERSONALLY WOULD NEVER BE IN THE WOODS DURING GUN SEASON WITHOUT ORANGE ON EVEN IF MY TAG WAS FILLED AND I WAS NOT HUNTING. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sureshot Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: In ml season we do not have to wear orange we can wear camo and I do! In rifle season as long as we are hunting we have to wear red, or orange but when youa re done you can hunt coyotes in camo, I do that, I wear my camo and wear a orange hat to get to and from my areas,then I put my mask on once in the area to call, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: [ QUOTE ] While I agree the hunter is responsible for his actions....do you not fault the kid at all? No common sense, no nothing? It is just the hunters fault period? [/ QUOTE ] Yep, 100% on the hunter. How many people out there do not even know when deer season starts and ends? I know there are quite a few people in the area I hunt that do not know season dates. There is a well used, blacktop bike path running right through one of the properties we hunt. During gun season last week, there we people out there just like any other day, walking, riding bikes, jogging, etc. 100% the hunter, you must know not only your target, but also what is behind the target. Where is that projectile going after it leaves the gun/bow? If I remember right, isn't that what they teach you in hunters education class? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntn4bucks Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: I would definitely wear hunter orange any time I was on public property during rifle/ML/shotgun season. There is a large amount of public property close to my house that has good deer hunting on it. It is also a great place to ride ATVs & horses. On the weekends during hunting season, several people ride their horses out there. Most of the time none of them have hunter orange on...it's an accident waiting to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasksheds Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: Lots of farmers or land owners here in Sask. during hunting season wear hunter orange or red coveralls & have a orange or red hat in the truck.Just incase they have to do some work in the bush or field.But here is something that one of my co-workers told me.She & her husband were out banding birds during hunting season & of course were hearing shots.She laughed as she was telling me about everyone they saw driving around was wearing hunter orange.She stopped laughing when I asked how smart she thought she was running around in the bush during hunting season not wearing hunter orange.It is the hunters resposibility 100%,but man,a little common sense goes along way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Question:::: i'm always wary of idiots. there's just too many of them walking around. saturday i was standing in my field hoping someone else in the area would push a deer my way. all of a sudden i heard a gun go off real close on my neighbor's property. i wandered over and saw this idiot not 20 feet behind my neighbor's barn. well, i started walking over to this guy (at least 500 yards away) and was thinking, "man, that deer was pretty close to Cloise's barn" well, this guy starts walking pretty slow towards the back end of the property. i figured he got the deer because he threw his gun up on his shoulder. so i started walking towards him to see if he needed help (and to see if Cloise knew he was there), but this guy just kept walking, with no deer in sight. well, after he walked a good 200 yards, i saw his buddy walking the other side of the fence line. near as i can tell, this guy signaled his other buddy to start the drive of the fence line with a shot. crazy. it's the only thing i can figure. well, these two guys met up on the fenceline and pushed it. after about 40 yards, the dude on the other side of the fence shoots. i never saw a deer, and these guys are only about 200 yards from me now, across a picked corn field. so i watched them walk right down the fence line, into my other neighbor's field, across another neighbor's field (who is anti-hunter, so i know they didn't have permission there), all the while popping off 3 more shot. thing was, they certainly weren't shooting deer, and that's the only thing your allowed to hunt during gun season in Ohio. so, my point--there's plenty of people that don't know seasons, or choose to ignore seasons and shoot the gun to signal other guys, and all kinds of other crap. just another reason i don't like gun season here in Ohio. always be careful and take care of yourself first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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