wtnhunt Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... Muggs, in this post as well as others you are extremely quick to throw up the allegations of people or their remarks being racist. In another thread here you make remarks kind of leading to the same thing just because people suggested they would not vote for a particular person, you seemed to read into that this idea that because those people do not agree that the person would be well suited to be the president that they are somehow being racist because the color of the mans skin. I may have missed something somewhere along the way in that thread, but don't think so and I think the rationale for most people not liking the idea of Obama has nothing whatsoever to do with his race but everything to do with that he is a liberal and has not been in the mainstream for us to know enough about how he really stands on the important issues in this country. Furthermore some of us even explained that we would vote for a person who is black had they had the right qualifications for the office they were running for and expressed our thoughts on a few of those people we would like to see run. You continue to keep bringing up these remarks prejudging others, but will not say who directly it is you have this obvious problem with. [ QUOTE ] There's also no way to argue that many of these statements show true racist feelings from a lot of members [/ QUOTE ] You say in your words here that there are A LOT of members who are racist here, cannot help but think you are accusing me of belonging to that with knowing nothing more about me than what I have posted here in these forums. Again I am curious as to who you are labeling here? Is it because some of us reference history that we are being labeled, are you maybe reading into some words on the screen here something that makes you a person who should be judgemental of others based on their words you may not fully understand their rationale for using, or do you have other reasons? On the topic of the word, N word, or whatever if you will call it that in which this post started, I really don't think it wise for blacks to call each other that name if the word was created for or out of hatred as muggs suggests here. If it is expected for those white people who use it to be called racists, they should set an example by refraining from using it themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... If you're referring to the Obama post, I'll stand by that 100%. When someone makes a post entitled "is anyone else afraid of Obama?" Then goes on to not give any reasons why someone should be afraid of him...what does that show? If someone were to say "I'm afraid of Obama, becaue if he wins, I think he'll do away with Social Security" I could see where they were coming from. You see, stating his political platform as the cause of this fear makes sense to me. But fearing someone getting elected for no other obvious (or noted) reason other than skin color, is not only racist...its also a little close-minded and counter productive to the nation as a whole. [ QUOTE ] because those people do not agree that the person would be well suited to be the president [/ QUOTE ] Again...if he gave supporting evidence as to why he thought this person is not well suited...so be it. But to use words like "afraid" when talking about thte chances of the first real black presidential candidate being eleceted, without giving any reasons for their fear, leaves one to assume only one thing, and that is the fact that the person is making a reacist remark. That's a safe assumption without a doubt...regardless of how you may try to spin it. At the very least, it shows underlying beliefs that are racist, like it or not. [ QUOTE ] I really don't think it wise for blacks to call each other that name if the word was created for or out of hatred as muggs suggests here. If it is expected for those white people who use it to be called racists, they should set an example by refraining from using it themselves. [/ QUOTE ] As I stated in my previous reply, I could not agree with you more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... Muggs, you are making assumptions here. I think with Obama there is a lot of unknown, what is known is that he is liberal The poster did not elaborate, so that gives you the right to read into the thread and accuse him of being racist because of what you THINK he MIGHT be saying??? Seems terribly judgemental to me, and almost as if you are looking for a reason to call someone a racist. Still you have failed as well to respond as to where you are coming up with this idea that there are a lot of members here who are making racist remarks??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... Is it not an assumption that Abe Lincoln was planning on sending the slaves back to Africa? Is it not also an assumption that doing so would have "avoid this issue all together" to paraphrase the poster. This post...much like reality...is riddled with assumptions. Some of them are true, some of them are not. But my point is, when you go back and read the posts in the Obama thread, and this thread...its hard to argue that there have been racist remarks made. To me, and others who replied, that much is obvious...unless of course you're viewing the topic with selective perception. What I mean is, people will always agree with what they believe and not listen to anything that contradicts their belief. Its the #1 reason why attitudes are so hard, if not impossible to change. Its also why an issue like this, one that has such little importance on anything will always cause an uproar. On that note, I'm done with this thread. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michael_bolton Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... I totally disagree with you as well, throwing around the term racist without any real proof shows lack of class. Sometimes those that are afraid of being called racist and quick to call others are the ones that wonder if they are themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... Yeah muggs, think I am done here too. Assuming about history in my opinion and assuming about ones character and making remarks about them as a result are hardly the same. Anyone here can research and see for themselves about the history of this country and chose to refute or agree with theories or plans. Making assumptions from there does not defame that person in any way. Making general assumptions about a person and labeling them based on a remark they make or a reference they make is however in my opinion not exactly the same as you are trying to point out here and in my opinion is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... [ QUOTE ] I totally disagree with you as well, throwing around the term racist without any real proof shows lack of class. Sometimes those that are afraid of being called racist and quick to call others are the ones that wonder if they are themselves. [/ QUOTE ] Nice philosophy...but a flute with no holes is not a flute, and a donut with no hole...is a danish. Pretty strong words for your second post...ever. btw- love your cover of "Dock-o-da-Bay." Anyway, no proof dude? Are you serious? I know nothing spells c-l-a-s-s like saying the phrase "ship 'em all back to Africa" but I think i deserve a little credit here. You can read, right? Actually, that might not help. The whole selective perception thing again (probably out of your vocab...google it, then take Advil for any pain). Sad really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... [ QUOTE ] Making general assumptions about a person and labeling them based on a remark [/ QUOTE ] But its okay to do so with an entire race of people? You guys kill me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitcha_some Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... muggs you continue to qoute the post made about how lincoln was thinking about sending the slaves back to africa.....and in doing so you keep shooting the messenger, history is not racism buddy its reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... [ QUOTE ] muggs you continue to qoute the post made about how lincoln was thinking about sending the slaves back to africa.....and in doing so you keep shooting the messenger, history is not racism buddy its reality [/ QUOTE ] Can you explain what that means? I'm not quoting history...stating history....referring to history. What I am doing by repeatedly quoting that post is pointing out the fact that saying things like: [ QUOTE ] all the stuff could have been avoided by lincon after the civil war was over. by loading up all the boats that we had and ship them all back to africa. [/ QUOTE ] or [ QUOTE ] and I do use the N-word...only when needed [/ QUOTE ] Like was said in an earlier post......are RACIST. How anyone would go out of there way to say they are not (on a public forum no less) is beyond me. I can't think of anyway to make yourself look more ignorant. That's the reality bud. If you take the time to actually read my posts, I think I've pretty much addressed every issue...provided evidence as to way the remarks are racists...and pretty much shot down every spin attempt, which is something you can't say for any counter arguement. [ QUOTE ] history is not racism buddy its reality [/ QUOTE ] What does this mean...and what does this have anything to do with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michael_bolton Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... I can tell you are not an MB fan, too bad, his music seems to inspire love and unity among all creeds and color. I just can't understand where all this anger comes from....but I do know one thing, you my friend have lost touch with reality long ago. The good thing is that I'm sure the ACLU is hiring and always needs people who can point fingers and throw slanderous remarks around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... [ QUOTE ] I can tell you are not an MB fan [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, something about long-haired R&B singers from the early 90's who only sing cover songs makes me tune out...not sure why. [ QUOTE ] but I do know one thing, you my friend have lost touch with reality long agoThe good thing is that I'm sure the ACLU is hiring and always needs people who can point fingers and throw slanderous remarks around. [/ QUOTE ] What's funny about you buddy, is the fact that you don't see the irony in your comments...and you just keep walking yourself right into it. 1.) Aren't you the one pointing fingers and saying slanderous remarks by saying something like that? 2) By saying I'd agree with the ACLU is definitely making an assumption, and I'm not even mentioning the fact that you think only the ACLU stands up for black people again shows your prejudice. [ QUOTE ] I just can't understand where all this anger comes from [/ QUOTE ] Don't mistake my effort to interject with common sense, open-mindedness, and post-1960 thought for anger. That's a careless and lazy thing to do. If you want to have a discussion with me, I'll ask that you think before you type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathcoerracin Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... muggs i thought you were through with this thread?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... [ QUOTE ] muggs i thought you were through with this thread?? [/ QUOTE ] I was...until I was attack by a guy with his second post on this forum. Somethings warrant a reaction...even if its only limited to type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathcoerracin Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... what does the number of posts have anything to do with it? Just curious..im kinda confused here BUD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michael_bolton Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... Good to see you haven't lost your sense of humor or your gift of using quotes to make up the bulk of your thoughts. I just don't know why you feel the need to justify your thoughts so much, do you feel that you are indeed racist and don't want us to know? Otherwise why do you trouble yourself with those that post their thoughts on history and those that have only posted two times?? If you want a lesson in ethics try the Red Cross, the ACLU seems to have corrupted your way of thinking. Make sure you wait at least ten seconds before you respond to the guy with just two posts. There is a difference between slander and reality, slander is saying someone is racist because they believe Lincoln might have wanted to send the slaves back to Africa, reality is that you have no clue about what good music is, or the plight of those truly discriminated against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... [ QUOTE ] well this is op on this, we did do a great unjustest to them by bringing them over here to be our slaves, but however all the stuff could have been avoided by lincon after the civil war was over. by loading up all the boats that we had and ship them all back to africa. [/ QUOTE ] If you read the whole post you can see that he was talking about freed slaves being sent back to africa shortly after the war. NOT NOW!!! As to what it would have changed....We'll never know, but you can't say it wouldn't be a different world. Not just our country. That's a historical theory that has been around at least sence my 70 some year old College American history teacher was was in college. That's where she read it. In one of those pesky book things. I had that class in 1988 so she probibly learned that back in the late 1930's. I would think that would constitute having some sort of historical truth. As for Oboma, my statement "It will never happen" was based on several things. 1. Not a single concervative in thier right mind would vote for a man with his social veiws. 2. He's too far left for most moderates. 3. Many 50+ year old, southern white, male democrats wouln't vote for him because he's muslim and black. Because guess what? They are racist. BTW. If the election were today and she were running, Condi Rice would get my vote over any other person that comes to mind reguardless of thier race or gender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... Thought I was through with this thread too muggs, but I got to hand it to you buddy, you outdid yourself with the warm welcome you gave the newbie here. Got to say that is really nice, attack a guy with two posts expecting him to not give his opinion. Talk about concerns for how others will view RT and how it reflects Jordan??? That is kind of funny right there I dont care who you are. I think it is great that the new guy jumped right in here and would like to give him a warm welcome, that is what these forums are for is discussions, if you wish to suppress someones opinion you do not agree with, well, I don't know what to tell you. This is a political and religious forum and there will be things you do not agree with and things I do not agree quite often, but that does not warrant you or me or anyone else the right to defame or slander other members because you hold a differing opinion. I am glad others see where I am coming from in this. John hit the nail on the head with what he says here, as I too learned about this theory and it was in a college American history class taught by a professor who seemed from what I could tell to be pretty with it. Hypothetically speaking, had Lincoln lived, things in this country might very well be different than they are today, but who knows, that is all history and cannot be changed. Referencing history by no means makes a person a racist. Not sure who you directed some of your remarks to, but YES, I can read, apparently you either have neglected to read completely or are ignoring my question I have repeated to you as to who all these lots of members are who you are alleging to have made racist remarks? You can pm me if you wish to do so. [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Making general assumptions about a person and labeling them based on a remark [/ QUOTE ] But its okay to do so with an entire race of people? You guys kill me. [/ QUOTE ] Since it is me you are quoting here, please explain to me or even feel free to find and quote me as assuming anything about a race or pre judging anyone and or labeling an entire race in a negative light anywhere in these forums in this thread or in any over the past. I hate to call anyone out, but you muggs have on more than one occasion in these forums thrown this up making insinuations or coming just short of coming right out and calling other members in here racist based on your assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... Not to beat a dead horse, but I may need some clarification here. If I quote history in regards to Adolf Hitler and Jews, does that mean I'm anti-Semitic? If I quote history in regards to Gloria Steinem and feminism, does that mean I'm misogynistic? And if I quote history in regards to Ronald Reagan and AIDS, does that mean I'm homophobic? Just curious where all the associations will lead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gitcha_some Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... [ QUOTE ] Not to beat a dead horse, but I may need some clarification here. If I quote history in regards to Adolf Hitler and Jews, does that mean I'm anti-Semitic? If I quote history in regards to Gloria Steinem and feminism, does that mean I'm misogynistic? And if I quote history in regards to Ronald Reagan and AIDS, does that mean I'm homophobic? Just curious where all the associations will lead? [/ QUOTE ] that sums up what u have asked me to explain muggs...i dont think i need to say more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EKYhunter Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... I agree that if a word is not permissable for one group of people to say, then it should not be permissable for another group to use. I think that sets up a double standard right there! I for one am very tired of hearing minority groups suchs (Fill in the blank) complaining about this and that and everything under the sun. This is the greatest country on earth. If you feel that you are deprived as an individual, group, race, or whatever, get youself an education and better youself! Here in Eastern Kentucky there's a college that doesn't charge a dime of tuition. You can work on campus and pay for your education as you earn it. If there here i'm sure their in other places as well! I guess what I'm saying is that if you want better then by thunder this country gives you every opportunity. I also think Texan's comments are right on. Just because you talk about historical facts doesn't make you a racist. Many people don't ever think about how long slavery existed under the American flag as opposed to the confederate flag. Also, the emancipation proclimation did not free all slaves, only those in the confederacy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WhiskeyMan44 Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... Good Lord, I leave the forum for 2 days and Muggs is just laying everybody to waste. Not much I can say that Muggs hasnt already and 100% correctly said. My hat is off to you Muggs, well played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... I must have missed something. When did I ever mention or question the quotation of history? If you can't tell from the premis of my replies, I'm not concerned with history. What I am concerned with, is the fact that none of you can understand the fact that a black person would not want to hear the N-word used. Considering this, I don't think its right for black people to use the word either...as I was sure to stat numerous times throughout the debacle that is this thread. That is most definitely a double standard. However...where it gets a little sketchy for me...is the fact that some of you are so upset about this that you wish Lincoln would have just shipped 'em back to African so your life wouldn't have to be inconvenienced by all this. I also think that the fact that someone said "I use the N-word, but only when needed" is a pretty harsh thing to say. Also, let me state to you Texas Til I Die that none of my replies were directed towards you. I agree with 99% of the things you post in this room, and your posts are always well thought out, interesting, and stated in a way that makes sense. I think the forum members could learn a lot from your example. I'm also sorry to have hijacked your thread...but I also think the whole "hijacking" thing is overrated. After all, conversations naturally change topic and lead to other points. If they didn't, communication would be a waste. On this note gentlemen, I'm official done. After reading some of the more recent posts, I can see this thread has lost its intellectual merit and is not worth continuing. I do have to say that some of the views expressed here are not only disconcerting, they're full flat out scary. Like I said before, attitudes that deal with these types of subjects are nearly impossible to change, but I truly hope some of you will open your minds and look at a person for what they're worth based only on character. I think you'll find life to be rewarding if you do. OK, that’s it…now I’m off to my weekly ACLU meeting, and then its our annual ultimate Frisbee game…where we get a little exercise, talk about how George W. Bush is the source of the world’s problems, and then chill out to an Alaniss Morissette album… Fight the power brothers! Fight the power! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... [ QUOTE ] However...where it gets a little sketchy for me...is the fact that some of you are so upset about this that you wish Lincoln would have just shipped 'em back to African so your life wouldn't have to be inconvenienced by all this. [/ QUOTE ] I for one never said I wished Lincoln had sent anyone back to Africa muggs. I did however say that there was possibly a plan in place by Lincoln to do just that based on what I learned in an American history class. As far as intellect buddy, guess you are above us all, well you and whiskeyman. Amazing to me how someone can call a person something based on reference they make to history while they themselves are too closed minded to realize that in doing so they are being judgmental. Wow, is being judgmental in this way based on reading things into ones references not in some ways similar to being prejudiced??? Don't prejudism and racism go hand in hand??? Being so intellectual as you are and all here, is this maybe too simple for you to comprehend? Honestly in judging another of being something as you have done here based solely on what they have written in the context of the way the poster wrote what was written and labeling them without knowing anything more about them are you really that much better a person? Seems kind of hypocritical if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUGARKAHNE Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Re: I Agree With Jesse Jackson... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] muggs i thought you were through with this thread?? [/ QUOTE ] I was...until I was attack by a guy with his second post on this forum. Somethings warrant a reaction...even if its only limited to type. [/ QUOTE ] Wow, things are getting vicious in here. But, I gotta say muggs, I'm really disappointed in the way you and a couple other long-time forum users have attacked and trashed new people the first time they post. I'm sure it doen't leave a good impression and if it had happened to me the first time I posted on here, I certainly wouldn't have stuck around. The guy was just giving his opinion so give him a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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