wildthing Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 For all of you PA hunters out there, I am sure most would agree that the antler restriction put into place a few years ago are definitely starting to pay off. I am certainly see more and bigger bucks! However, I wanted to see how anyone felt about trying to get PA to allow hunting on Sundays. This year, I believe, they made a change and pushed back the legal shooting time 30 additional minutes. Quite frankly, if it dark, it is dark, people shouldn't be shooting anyways. I look at some other state game laws, like Ohio because it is close, that allow hunting on Sundays. Also, Ohio's archery season runs into January. Pa archery season always ends around the 2nd weekend in November and then comes back in later in the season. Really, this make no sense to me. If you work Monday - Friday and can only hunt on the weekends, your time in the field is very limited. Also, weather can hamper the time spent in the woods too and believe me in recent seasons, I spent mulitple Saturdays back in the house and not in the field due to poor weather conditions. I think PA should change the hunting laws to mirror Ohio, Sundays permitted and archery season to run straight through in to January. Opinions / comments welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildthing Posted August 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 As a follow up to my original post, I think hunting on Sundays would offer the opportunities for more hunters in the field, more time spent hunting (which is what people like us like to do) and more opportunities to educate the next generation of hunters. I can see no downside to Sunday hunting in PA (either the whole or part of day). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerkillr777 Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 i think sunday huntign would be great but then u got th guys out in the wood huntin that see brown and it goes down no matter what witch pisses me offi hunted with a guy like that for one day and i was like freak tihs poop and didnt ever hunt with him again he offered to take me out yeah i seen a **** load of deer but nothin i wanted to shot so i do liek it but apart of me doesnt yea our archery season runs into january too but just not straight threw u have muzzeloader and rifel in there too i love the antler restriction i have seen bigger and bigger deer and yes a few more deer but i still hate the if u see brown it down hunters my $.2 nate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8ptbuckpa Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Archery does run pracitically the whole hunting season there is 2, 2 week breaks in between the designated archery seasons and the beginning and end of rifle season. You can always go out during rifle with a bow. That being said though I do believe they should extend archery season a week or push it back a week, to encompass the rut, last year the bucks in my area didn't starting rutting until that week after the season. I believe there should be a cut off for this youth mentor program, at around 9 years old, because in all legality a man can take is 6 month out and shoot a buck now if they feel that child can handle that firearm. Also how many people can remember what they did when they where 5,6, or 7 years old? Most 5,6,7 yearolds can't even remember what they did last week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckslayer Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I believe there should be a cut off for this youth mentor program, at around 9 years old, because in all legality a man can take is 6 month out and shoot a buck now if they feel that child can handle that firearm. I definitely agree with this. I've seen a few guys taking 5-6 year olds out hunting that weigh like 45 lbs and letting them shoot. Sure they miss. I'd miss too if I was trying to shoot a gun that weighed 20% of my body weight. I agree with allowing sunday hunting in PA. It is a day I'm always off, and I don't see hunting as work so to me, it isn't morally wrong. I do agree that hunting during the rut should be allowed. But just for archers as the success rates would be too high with rifle hunters there too. So to the statement about archery open until January, I agree. Gun season stays the same. The -30 mins of shooting light is bull. Dark is dark. Its either safe or not safe to shoot. I'll be in my stand until dark and if I can make a safe and ethical kill... I will be shooting. I have seen a lot of benefit from the antler restrictions. Doe killing has been a little extreme, but overall I'm pleased with the herd. I am not in agreement with allowing crossbow shooters to hunt, unless they are disabled. :D:cool: Thats my honest opinion on the above subjects!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildthing Posted August 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Guys...thanks for the feedback. I am glad to see there are fellow hunters that would like to have hunting permitted on Sundays. What can we do to get this accomplished? As I stated before, the 30 additional minutes is just a bad idea. If anything, it is gonna lead to wounded game and injured hunters! "if its brown, it goes down" type hunters annoy me too. I think that mentality is based on how a person is intriduced to the sport of hunting. My thoughts are to educate the young hunters so that mentality never comes about. Teach them to be an ethical hunter. I started hunting when I was 12, my previous comments about educating the next generation of hunters wasn't age specific, although I feel there needs to be an age limit, it was more catered to the overall idea that with more available days to hunt, the more opportunities an ethical, adult hunter has to take a young hunter into the woods and give them the experience and learn to appreciate what hunting is all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PSUHunter Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I havnt thought much about hunting on sundays, but I guess I wouldnt mind it at all. It would be another day to get out in the woods. I dont like making alot of plugs, but feel free to check out www.pabucks.com which is a great sight with alot of discussion of the things that go on in pa hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildthing Posted August 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 The thing is, most hunters on the average only have the weekend to hunt unless they plan vacation time or are self employed. If the weather doesn't cooperate that day, that day is lost. Plus, with archery ending in early November, part if not all of the rut is missed. If it is ok to work on Sundays, it should be ok to HUNT on Sundays! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckslayer Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Guys...thanks for the feedback. I am glad to see there are fellow hunters that would like to have hunting permitted on Sundays. What can we do to get this accomplished? As I stated before, the 30 additional minutes is just a bad idea. If anything, it is gonna lead to wounded game and injured hunters! wildthing, I thought you meant -30 mins (less hunting time) when you said pushed back 30 mins. So yeah I agree that it could lead to hunters being injured. HOWEVER, I see their point. That point is that hunters (myself included) stay on stand and get into the stand until dark. The time tables in previous years for "allowable shooting hours" did not begin and end at a time when hunters actually stopped hunting (because it was still light enough to) and its possible they knew people weren't following them so thats why they changed the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hold_em_Archery Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I have no problem with hunting n Sundays. I woul dbe more then happy for a few more days to get out there. Also, I think that you guys have to be careful when talking about the extention of legal shooting hours. You keep referring to "dark is dark", but the legal shooting hours used to end at sunset. That would mean if you have been sitting in your stand until dark (which I do) you have been in the stand past legal shooting hour and you should not be shooting. I sit until after dark to try to sneak out of the woods without spooking game. There have been times when I have had deer under my stand that I could have easily taken because there was enough light, but it is after sunset, so it would have been illegal. I am glad that the shooting hours were extended. Lastly, I think that we need to have a year or two when we asked (it would be hard to enforce) that there be mo deer drives put on. I for one have hunted using deer drive my entire life. It is all that my family does upstate. However, as a result of deer drives, many areas that used to be abundent with deer have very few left to be found. I know that the # of doe permits that the states gives is a touchy subject, and some areas, like the South East really need to have many does taken, but that is not the case across the entire state. By forcing people to still hunt or sit, it will help the deer herd. The areas with lots of deer will still get higher #'s of harvests, but those areas where the population has demished will get a chance for more deer to survie and extra year of two, and give the population a chance at a come back. just my 2 cents, sorry to be long winded. Good luck to you all this year!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildthing Posted August 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I too sit until dark and try and sneak out of the woods undetected. The thing is, other hunters are also doing the same thing. This is where I see the problem. Looking through a peep sight or scope, after the sun sets and light is drastically becoming less and less by the minute, is very hard to do. Let alone idenifying the target at the same time and most importantly what is beyond that target. We all get more alert when the "magical hour" comes around. We all get "Buch Fever" and we all know that for the average hunter, time in the field is limited. And if you are like me, I rely on the haversted meat to feed my family too. Thus, I feel that this may rush the judgement of whether or not to shoot. The thing is with hunting, is that unless you are on your own property, with no other hunters, I feel more accidents will occur because more people will be in the woods later still looking to shoot. This is where I am trying to advocate hunting in PA on Sundays. Why not just extend the weekend instead of adding 30 minutes closer to dark? Give hunters more time instead of pushing the limits of time. Eager hunters, poor lighting, loaded guns and knocked arrows may equal more accidents. We have all been in the woods with negligent hunters or know of guys that push the limits too much...when they can see. I can only assume that all of us on this forum practice goods habits and hunt ethically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quackmaster4 Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Well, it looks like I'm in the minority here, but I'm against allowing general hunting here in PA on Sundays. Not for any religeous beliefs, but for many other reasons I think it would be a bad direction to go. Don't misunderstand me, if it comes to pass I'll be out there hunting, but I just don't think it's the best decision for the hunters of PA to make. It would definitly help a few, but IMHO ultimately hurt all of us in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckslayer Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Well, it looks like I'm in the minority here, but I'm against allowing general hunting here in PA on Sundays. Not for any religeous beliefs, but for many other reasons I think it would be a bad direction to go. Don't misunderstand me, if it comes to pass I'll be out there hunting, but I just don't think it's the best decision for the hunters of PA to make. It would definitly help a few, but IMHO ultimately hurt all of us in the long run. Quack, would you mind backing up your opinion?? Like why are you against it if not for religious beliefs? And how would it hurt us all in the long run? Thanks, buckslayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoytbowhunter Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think: We should be able to hunt sundays, Orange should be required on state game lands but be a choice on private, The antler restriction are great but the set-up of management areas for doe tags suck and doe tages can not be had by the people who need them to manage their heard, The mentored youth is a great program and there should be no restrictions on age and no one in their right mind will take out there six month old kid and give them a gun your going way overboard on your example, We should be able to create blinds of natural materials, Archery season should be at least a week longer, And as for the shoting hours it should be in your own good judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildthing Posted August 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 hoytbowhunter...good point, shooting hours in your own judgement. The problem is for every ethical and responsible hunter, there are 5 idiots that give hunting a bad name because they aren't responsible and can't make a good judgment. I'd like to see archery run straight into January, but would settle for it running up to the 1st day of gun season...including Sundays. I just can't think of one bad reason to not permit hunting on Sundays. It is an extra day to enjoy hunting, more opportunity for harvest, more opportunity to learn and appreciate the hunting tradition, more opportunity to keep the game management in check, etc. etc. I think the pros far outway the cons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8ptbuckpa Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think: We should be able to hunt sundays, Orange should be required on state game lands but be a choice on private, The antler restriction are great but the set-up of management areas for doe tags suck and doe tages can not be had by the people who need them to manage their heard, The mentored youth is a great program and there should be no restrictions on age and no one in their right mind will take out there six month old kid and give them a gun your going way overboard on your example, We should be able to create blinds of natural materials, Archery season should be at least a week longer, And as for the shoting hours it should be in your own good judgement. Ok maybe I may have been a little dramatic but a 2 yearold is also way to young I saw on tv just yesterday that a kid had been hunting since he was 2 hunting squirrels and , As my father stated this last week he thinks its good for those who are a year or 2 away from 12 but by doing this hypothetically say all the youth mentors where lucky enough to shoot a buck say there are appoximately 10,000 hunters, thats 10,000 bucks that where shot off. Its a double standard they imply the antler restrictions to those that are paying for me and my father this years was $50 bucks a piece plus my mother(who never shot a deer) my grandfather and my uncle that is $250 they got from just my family alone. All of us have restrictions. My grand father hasn't shot a deer in 3 years, my dad hasn't shot a buck since 1999, My uncle hasn't shot one ever, My mom hasn't shot a deer. Also being a nonjunior hunter this year I don't like the idea b/c I had to wait. Also peak there interest with a squirrel or groundhog or even a turkey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckslayer Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 I think: We should be able to hunt sundays, Orange should be required on state game lands but be a choice on private, The antler restriction are great but the set-up of management areas for doe tags suck and doe tages can not be had by the people who need them to manage their heard, The mentored youth is a great program and there should be no restrictions on age and no one in their right mind will take out there six month old kid and give them a gun your going way overboard on your example, We should be able to create blinds of natural materials, Archery season should be at least a week longer, And as for the shoting hours it should be in your own good judgement. They won't take out there 6 month old, but they will take out their 6 year old. Lots of people out there do not have "right" minds. I'm not trying to detract from your opinion, but I really feel that there should be an age limit of 8 or 9 here. I liked it when it was 12 years old and you had to go through a hunter's safety course. That way WE KNOW they were educated about safety, whereas many people (not us... think slob hunters of which there are many) only teach the "if brown its down" rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoytbowhunter Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 Its not all about killing and its only money i sepend it for a tag just like u and I would rather see my seven year old cousin shoot a spike this year then me to shoot a 300'' deer it seems to me your being selfish.Grow up Im shure you would have used the oppertunity if it was available to you when you where a child i know I would have. Sorry that your family havent got to shot bucks but its not those kids fault and the legeal buck are deffently out there so idk what to tell you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quackmaster4 Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 The supporters of SH claim that it would help a large amount of hunters who have no other time to get out. While I'm sure it would help some who have no other time, my opinion is that the actual numbers of hunters who only have Sunday to hunt is very low. However, since it is claimed (by SH supporters) to be a large number, then I'll go by that. Introducing another high pressure day each week into the hunting seasons will no doubt have an effect on game populations, there can't be any reasonable argument to that. To offset the increased harvest, either the total length of the seasons will have to be shortened for large and small game, or the number of tags will have to be reduced for big game. Consequences such as a fall turkey license (with no guarantee) drawing could result. How many low pressure days (weekdays) would they have to eliminate to equal six high pressure days during archery? A bunch, and the archers (rightly so) would scream bloody murder. These are just a few examples. To use other states as examples isn't really fair. I don't know of any other state that has our topography, geography, hunting population, and our game populations. Deer numbers are already a hot topic here in PA, screwing around with them at this point in time would compound the problem. As I've stated before, I have no religeous or selfish reasons to oppose SH. If it comes to pass, then I'll be amoung the numbers of hunters out there enjoying it. I just don't think it's a good direction to take. One more thing, these are by no means my only reasons for opposing SH, I'll just let you respond to one at a time, and I don't like to type this much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbearguy Posted August 7, 2007 Report Share Posted August 7, 2007 wildthing-it says in your profile that you are from pittsburgh. Why not just skip on over to WMU 2B and hunt as much as you want. As of this afternoon there were still 67300 doe tags still available so that excuse doesn't work. Just in case you missed it 2B has an additional six weeks to archery hunt does this year. This is from the PGC website. "DEER, ARCHERY (Antlerless Only) WMUs 2B, 5C and 5D: Sept. 15-28, and Nov. 12-24. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license. DEER, ARCHERY (Antlerless Only) WMUs 2B: Dec.10-22. One antlerless deer with each required antlerless license." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckslayer Posted August 8, 2007 Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 Introducing another high pressure day each week into the hunting seasons will no doubt have an effect on game populations, there can't be any reasonable argument to that. To offset the increased harvest, either the total length of the seasons will have to be shortened for large and small game, or the number of tags will have to be reduced for big game. Consequences such as a fall turkey license (with no guarantee) drawing could result. How many low pressure days (weekdays) would they have to eliminate to equal six high pressure days during archery? A bunch, and the archers (rightly so) would scream bloody murder. These are just a few examples. Thanks for sharing you views... now I get it... and I agree with what you said too. There would have to be a balancing give/take situation --- so I guess it might as well be left alone. Its not all about killing and its only money i sepend it for a tag just like u and I would rather see my seven year old cousin shoot a spike this year then me to shoot a 300'' deer it seems to me your being selfish.Grow up Im shure you would have used the oppertunity if it was available to you when you where a child i know I would have. Sorry that your family havent got to shot bucks but its not those kids fault and the legeal buck are deffently out there so idk what to tell youIts not all about killing and its only money i sepend it for a tag just like u and I would rather see my seven year old cousin shoot a spike this year then me to shoot a 300'' deer it seems to me your being selfish.Grow up Im shure you would have used the oppertunity if it was available to you when you where a child i know I would have. Sorry that your family havent got to shot bucks but its not those kids fault and the legeal buck are deffently out there so idk what to tell you I see your point totally, its great to see younger hunters succeed. I am just biased because I know that my girlfriend's cousin who is 7 years old wounded a gobbler with her Grandpa at his side. He actually taught him that this was OK. The reason he missed is because he was shooting a 12GA shotgun and honestly no joke can't weigh more than 50 lbs. I asked the boy if he felt bad he wounded it and he said "no, it will hopefully go away and die somewhere anyway" !!! I was furious and because hunters this age have no ability to reason or come to logical conclusions of right and wrong, I am not in favor of youth hunting until they are at an age where they can actually understand what they're doing with a gun on their own (because we all know that we can't rely on the public teaching our youth how to hunt because 50% of them will turn out to be law breakers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildthing Posted August 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2007 bigbearguy...thanks for the feedback. I guess I am a bit confused by your comments. Where was I trying to make an excuse? I was simply advocating hunting on Sundays. Somewhere along the lines in this thread you must have missed the point I was trying to make initially. My reasoning for Sunday hunting was only to extend more opportunities for hunters to legally get out in the woods. Let me be clear from a personal perspective. Maybe you can relate, or maybe not. I am 29 yrs. old and work Mon - Fri, 8:30 - 6 pm, with Sat and Sun off. As of right now, unless I take vacation time for hunting, I can really only hunt Saturdays. With that being said, that leaves a guy like me approx. 8-9 Saturday trips to the woods between the 1st day of archery and last day of archery. (first season). Then add 2 weeks of gun and you make almost a dozen. Sprinkle in the guys that muzzload hunt and maybe a few more. Of those few days, I need to pray for good weather or my days are even less! I live very near to state games lands. As a matter of fact, I try past them everyday to work. I can tell you that Mon-Fri, I'll see a few cars here and there, but on Saturdays...cars and trucks are lined bumper to bumper throught out the season. Especailly gun season. If I could poll how many hunters can really only hunt on weekends during the season, my guess is that the number would jump way high compared to the rest of the days per week. If Sundays were included, from a pure number and opportunity standpoint, that number would double...pretty simple. We all know deer aren't running around with neon targets on them. They still need hunted! As hunters, we know there is no guarantee. However, why not give the opportunity, the hunter still has a choice to hunt or not hunt on Sundays, but at least there is a choice! That is my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted August 9, 2007 Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 The youth hunters thing is crazy. I'm I right that there is no minimum age anymore? That's what I gather from your responses. I am pretty strongly against 5, 6, 7..whatever year old kids hunting. The reason I dont like it is because I feel like parents in some cases force it on their kids. I see these shows where these 5 year old kids blast a nice buck out of a box blind, the dad is just beside himself with accomplishment but the kid couldn't care less.....and probably has no real idea what he just did. Now, in cases where kids reallly understand what all goes into hunting, and are quite capable in the woods, I can be all for that. I guess it varies on a kid by kid basis. I'd just like to see some kind of minimum age requirement. As for the Sunday hunting, I've done a 360 on this in recent years. I used to be all for it. Like you guys, I figured that's one more off day for me to hunt. But to be honest, as much as I like to hunt, I like the day off from hunting. It's nice to take a walk, go hang a stand, scout, or just go outside in the yard without having to listen to gunfire or worry about bumping into a hunter around every tree. And to be honest, the landowners, and nonhunters probably deserve it too. Now, if they pass a Sunday hunting law I wouldn't care that much. I'd probably even hunt a few Sundays, but I'm thinking I would like it to stay the way it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildthing Posted August 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2007 buckbuster...a 360 would put you back in the same place...meaning you'd be "all for it". Since you are a Steelers fan, I won't tease you too much. I know what you meant, but a 180 sends you in the opposite direction...which was the premise of your comment. Sundays should be an option. No one is holding a gun to someone's head to hunt on Sundays. But it should be a choice / option. Let's just hope Big Ben doesn't do a 360...haha...good luck this year. Go Steelers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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