I'm losing my mind!

[Tony]

i will always paper tune and will alwys help others that want to do so. it simply works for me. oh by the way i have shot a few 3d and Indoor target and Field archery tournaments myself.

what really rubs me the wrong way is for someone to come on here and say your 3 or 4 inch groups at 20 yards are no good and you need to put in the time and effort to get to 1 inch groups. and if you dont want to put in the time and effort you should stay out of the woods.

what i want to know is just who the heck are you to make such a statement? in all my years in have never heard such a slam on bowhunters in my life. maybe you should go back to Archery Talk where that type of mindset is allowed.

again 1 inch groups at 20 yards is BOLOGNA. if your that good, then you need to shoot evey indoor target shoot there is, cause your missing out on a lot of cash. even the top shooters with Indoor conditions, top quality gear, perfectly tuned bows cant hit a 3 inch circle 100% of the time.

go to the NFAA website and look at all the 599s shot last year at the Indoor nationals in Louisville. that means that even top shooters with top gear and hundreds or hours and thousands of arrows missed a 3 inch circle at 20 yards!

that in your mind would be unacceptable and they shouldnt even go hunting, they should sit at home, and practice until they can shoot like you say.

plus tuning the bow has very little to do with accuracy. Proper shooting form, shot execution, draw length, draw weight, and mental concentration all come way before bow tuning. you can not take advantage of a properly tuned bow unless you have proper shooting form, shot execution and mental game. having a properly tuned bow helps for accuracy, but it shouldnt be the only thing.

people shoot at all diferant levels. guys that are happy to shoot 5 inch groups at 20 and 30 yards should feel competant when going into the woods to hunt deer.

would i like to see a little better accuracy from everyone. heck yes. but im sure not going to say stay out of the woods your a liability to the rest of us bowhunters simply because you cant shoot as accurate as i do.

thats not only rude, but a great way to drive people away from bowhunting.

Tony

[wtnhunt]

Confidence in your ability should dictate how you hunt, whether it is a 3-4 inch group at 20-30 yards or the 1 inch group you are striving for, the hunter him/herself should be able to determine their level of confidence and ability.

So long as the bow is accurate within reason, the method of tuning is really not so significant as the shooter being confident in their equipment and ability with that equipment. Seems like a pointless argument going on here that is doing nothing more than beating down those who do not follow a certain method.

[Ohiobucks]

Boy Tony, I'm glad you spoke up, I was almost ready to get rid of all my bowhunting gear and take up bowling.....

[TreeWalker]

WTN, and that's exactly what I think leaves so many deer wounded and loaded into a truck.....it's not a bow that is slightly out of tuned.....or not "micro-tuned"......it's archers who don't pick up or draw there bows until season is nearly upon them, or even already open.

This thread has about run it's useful course, because it is like arguing over carbons or aluminums.....fixed blades or mechanicals....yadda-yadda-yadda.......and MB_SQ2, Chevy's are better LOL

I started an informational thread, on bowtuning, where tips and tricks can be shared, I made it a sticky for all users to view and share info from here on out......it is for useful info only, not debates or arguments....and no further bashing will be tolerated, whether it be towards a Mod, or a Member.......or their choice of how they do things. Remember, it's hunters helping hunters....not hunters criticizing eachother......

[Turkeygirl]

Thank you TreeWalker...good post.

[Guest bowhunter56]

Yes, is a very good post...

[Bowtech_archer07]

I'm seeing this debate and realizing that if you set your bow up your way and it works GREAT! Whether you paper tune, walk back tune, or bare shaft tune it doesn't matter if it gives you the results that you are looking for. Now then if some shooters are content with shooting (by your standards shtr) sub par then let them. It's the same with gun hunters that just want to hit a pie plate at 100 yards. Not everyone has the time, patience or knowledge to set up a finely tuned bow that shoots perfect and yet they still manage to kill deer every year.

BOTTOM LINE WHAT WORKS FOR ME ISN'T WRONG, WHAT WORKS FOR YOU ISN'T WRONG AND IT IS WRONG FOR ANYONE TO GET ON HERE AND CRITICIZE AND CONDEMN ANOTHER METHOD JUST BECAUSE WHAT THEY DO WORKS FOR THEM.

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

[hutchies]

I'm seeing this debate and realizing that if you set your bow up your way and it works GREAT! Whether you paper tune, walk back tune, or bare shaft tune it doesn't matter if it gives you the results that you are looking for. Now then if some shooters are content with shooting (by your standards shtr) sub par then let them. It's the same with gun hunters that just want to hit a pie plate at 100 yards. Not everyone has the time, patience or knowledge to set up a finely tuned bow that shoots perfect and yet they still manage to kill deer every year. I prefer bare shaft paper tuning, it works for me. I think in most instances paper tuning is the easiest and most convenient place to start. If that doesn't give you the results that you are looking for by all means don't be satisfied try another method.

BOTTOM LINE WHAT WORKS FOR ME ISN'T WRONG, WHAT WORKS FOR YOU ISN'T WRONG AND IT IS WRONG FOR ANYONE TO GET ON HERE AND CRITICIZE AND CONDEMN ANOTHER METHOD JUST BECAUSE WHAT THEY DO WORKS FOR THEM.

First off you didn't have to yell. Secondly I am one of those guys with a rifle that if I am hitting a 4 inch circle at 100 I could absolutely care less. I'll explain why....... I set a maximum ethical range for me rifle hunting. 99% of the time I'm not shooting over 75 yards. Last year my rifle never even saw the light of day. Sighting in a rifle and tuning a bow are nowhere near the same. I tune for the best possible broadhead flight I can attain without pulling my hair out. I papertune, then walkback, followed up by broadhead tuning. I want to know that when I release that arrow it will be tracking perfectly. I don't want to move my pins to where the broadhead impacts because that means it is not flying straight. It is planing, whether it be right, left, up, or down. If you shoot and your 20 yard pin is dead on and your 40 yard pin is off by 3 inches it is because something is not right. If you want to set your ethical range to 20 yards and guaruntee your not gonna shoot over that then by all means if you can hit a 6 inch pie plate at 20 take off.

One thing I see we are not mentioning though is Speed you guys are shooting and whether it is a mechanical or fixed blade? Are you moving your pins to the point of impact or are your broadheads and fieldpoints actually hitting the same spot? Are you spin testing your arrows? How are you indexing the heads? Believe it or not this all comes into play. Perfect broadhead flight is not hard to achieve......especially with the fact that many guys are only shooting 260 FPS. It does more complicated when shooting over 300 FPS but I know most of you aren't doing that.

This thread has extremely disappointed me. Many people scream about ethics but when it comes to something as simple as tuning their bow they don't want to hear it. A good shop will even help you tune your broadheads. I know alot of you guys and know that you are more than capable of doing this. We spend so much time scouting and getting ready and this is one thing that is extremely overlooked. If you walked in your backyard right now with your bow and had your broadheads on can you hit the bullseye 90 out of 100 times at your preset maximum ethical range. If not you should be tuning. I guaruntee you can get it done in a few hours at the most..................If not there are tons of people here to help you.

If I offended you I'm sorry in advance. I see boths sides here. I would love to see everyone shooting great but I know in reality it isn't going to happen. I absolutely hate the time of the year when you see thread after thread of.........Well My shot wasn't so great what should I do.......or......... I shot way back on a huge 10 pt and need help.

[hutchies]

Like I said above though..........If you are are hitting a 6 inch group at 20 and you want to set your ethical range at that then take off. I don't want to see anyone not hitting the woods.................

[Ohiobucks]

* deleted by Ohiobucks *

[257bob]

I don't think I was yelling, it was more like typing with a lot of emphasis. LOL

Hutchies I disagree with your comparison to rifles and bows. I spend just as much, if not more time getting the right load built for my rifles as I do getting my broadheads to shoot properly. I know many gun guys that would argue you to the end, but I am not here to argue.

I am simply saying....... I am glad you have a firm grasp on archery tuning techniques. I have met you and know that you shoot very good. I met Tony a couple years ago at the Oklahoma get together and know from experience he is a great shooter and has a method that obviously works very well for him. I am sure that shtr's bow shoots lights out. I am comfortable shooting my broadheads and field points together out to 50 yards. According to this thread, we all get there by different methods (and that is fine and dandy with me) as it should be with every outdoorsman on this forum. I like that when someone has an issue with their bow, gun, treestand, or camera that they can post it on this forum and get an adverse view of opinions and options to resolve their problem.

I agree 100% about your statement on ethical ranges. If you know your limits and don't exceed them, I don't see a problem with 6" and 20 yards either.

I was and have in no way been offended by anyone in this thread.

[hutchies]

I would venture to say though that you are part of a small percentage on the rifle tuning. What I was trying to explain was that you can go out and sight in a rifle to shoot a pie plate at 100 yards in a matter of half hour or so and your done. Shoot, adjust scope, shoot, adjust scope..........which is what most people do. They can lay that rifle in the case and not shoot again til season and are still confident that it will be dead on. With a bow you can't just screw on BH's and expect to be dead on.

Like I was explaining before...........if you shoot mechanicals or a small fixed blade your arrows are not going to plane as bad as a large fixed blade. It's all about personal choice.

If I could stress one thing in this thread and one person would take one thing from it that would be "ALWAYS SHOOT YOUR BROADHEADS BEFORE YOU GO INTO THE FIELD"................If you know they aren't shooting well then you have noone to blame but yourself.

[Guest shtr]

I would venture to say though that you are part of a small percentage on the rifle tuning. What I was trying to explain was that you can go out and sight in a rifle to shoot a pie plate at 100 yards in a matter of half hour or so and your done. Shoot, adjust scope, shoot, adjust scope..........which is what most people do. They can lay that rifle in the case and not shoot again til season and are still confident that it will be dead on. With a bow you can't just screw on BH's and expect to be dead on.

Like I was explaining before...........if you shoot mechanicals or a small fixed blade your arrows are not going to plane as bad as a large fixed blade. It's all about personal choice.

If I could stress one thing in this thread and one person would take one thing from it that would be "ALWAYS SHOOT YOUR BROADHEADS BEFORE YOU GO INTO THE FIELD"................If you know they aren't shooting well then you have noone to blame but yourself.

Thats about the bottom line.

My suggestion for flight tuning was only that it allows you to know that your broadhead will fly properly unlike paper tuning which is not done with a broadhead.

Either can work but one requires more work.

I am just trying to suggest a superior short cut ....IMO