lime

[Guest MarylandQDMA]

question for the "farmers" out there. I live neer a quary that mines mirble(sp) limestone. they sell cruched/powdered line stone. is this the same as lime that you buy in powder form in 50lbs bags from the farm store?

I was thinking if it was I could pick up a ton cheaper then if I had to buy 40 bags.

Frank

[wtnhunt]

Re: lime

You want to get pelletized lime. It is supposed get into the soil faster, and is much easier to work with. Some farmers here do get crushed(powdered) lime brought out by the truck and they use a backhoe or loader to pick up the lime to put in a spreader behind a tractor. Unless you have the equipment, you would be best off to hit a coop or feed store to find your lime.

I did use powdered lime purchased from wal mart in my spreader last year, think it was like 1.99 for a 50 lb bag. The ph in my plot was in the ideal range when I planted my trefoil, but spreading the powdered lime with the 3 point spreader behind my tractor was a lot of trouble, it caked really bad, I will never use it again.

[Tominator]

Re: lime

Yep, same thing, but I think the stuff the farmers spread is crushed to the point that it does a better job than the quarry stuff. It breaks down in the ground a little more readily.

We have a fair amount of limestone quarries in our area of Ohio, and I know some farmers around here just spread the limestone dust that's a by-product of the quarrying practices.

[AaronS]

Re: lime

I'll second and third what has already been said. Unless you will be using a buggy style spreader or unless your spreader has a good agitator, stick with pelletized lime. Make sure is has been kept dry or you will be fighting clumps the whole time and that is a huge pain in the rear.

[Rhino]

Re: lime

Like the others have said if you are doing it yourself the pelletized lime is easiest to work with. Our co-op has a lime buggy and they also have a truck with a spreader that can carry 10,000 per trip. The last time we limed our food plots we had the truck spread lime on our big fields while we pulled the buggy with a tractor on the smaller food plots. Doing it with a spreader takes a long time if you have a lot of food plots and a lot of acreage in food plots.

[Guest MarylandQDMA]

Re: lime

I have a drop spreader that works wonders with the powder lime. it is a tow behind and holds 200lbs. so getting back to my question. will it work? or is the powder lime in the coop better?

only talking about 1/2 acre. ph is at 5.5. so I figure I need at least 1000 lbs.

[dogdoc]

Re: lime

mdqc---I think the quary lime will work fine---the other guys were just recommending the pelleted lime for the ease of use.

todd

[David_218]

Re: lime

Dolomite Lime (Magnesium Carbonate) in pellet form is the what you want to use. You're adding two important elements to the soil: Lime that raises the pH and Magnesium, which is necessary for good plant growth.

[wtnhunt]

Re: lime

Dont think the coop powdered lime is going to be any different in what it is going to do. If you just want to use the cheaper powdered lime go ahead, just make sure you dont let the powdered lime get at all damp, and I would not recommend filling the hopper to capacity either. I put ours out dry and used a 350 lb capacity 3 point coop spreader behind my tractor and even with the agitator bar it still clumped and caked terribly. Big mistake pouring in too much of the powder at one time. Seems like if you load too much in the hopper the weight of the powder loose will also cause to clump even if it is dry. When it packs down it is a pain to get it to spread right or even spread at all.

Took me less than 10 minutes to spread fertilizer last time I put it out on a one acre and a quarter acre plot. Took over an hour to spread powdered lime on those same two plots.

[Tominator]

Re: lime

Farmers around here also mix a slurry and hose it on like watering a plant. Don't know if you have that capability or not, but it seems to work for them.

Pelletized is probably the way to go. Glad I don't have to use it in my situation.

You might also want to try manure. Manure (cow or horse) can sometimes balance your soil. The trouble with manure is the weed seed factor.

[dogdoc]

Re: lime

Tominator---I have heard of using manure for the high nitrogen content but not for balancing pH

[Tominator]

Re: lime

i was told that by a biology teacher/all-around horse guy. don't know if it's true, but to be honest, manure is about all i use except for certain crops that require high nitrogen like corn.

I'll look into it to make sure. i'd hate to give bad advice.

[AaronS]

Re: lime

I'd have to agree, manure will increase the N in your soil.

The powdered lime will work in your spreader, but how will you get the lime to your food plot and how will you load it in the spreader? Does it come in bags like pelletized or is it loose?

[AaronS]

Re: lime

After reading the original post again I'm going to assume you'll be buying the powdered lime loose, probably hauling it in a truck. One thing to consider, and a big reason everyone is suggesting pelletized, is that it will take more powdered lime than pelletized, and you will have to shovel all of it into the hopper instead of pouring it from a bag. You'll have a much bigger mess to clean up afterwards as well.

[Guest MarylandQDMA]

Re: lime

if I go with the lime (from quary) it will be dumped in my pick up bed by a front end loader. then I can shovle in into the drop spreader.

or if I go with the coop lime it is in 50# bags.

F

[dogdoc]

Re: lime

[ QUOTE ]

if I go with the lime (from quary) it will be dumped in my pick up bed by a front end loader. then I can shovle in into the drop spreader.

or if I go with the coop lime it is in 50# bags.

F

[/ QUOTE ]

and the powdered lime is about a tenth of the cost as bagged pelleted lime!

todd

[Guest MarylandQDMA]

Re: lime

[ QUOTE ]

and the powdered lime is about a tenth of the cost as bagged pelleted lime!

[/ QUOTE ]

THAT"S RIGHT! I have no problem doing a bit more work if I am able to save some cash in doing so.

F

[Tominator]

Re: lime

I found this Todd:

http://www.earthandtable.com/glossary/soil/qualities.html

read the "acidic soil" paragraph.

I also found a real good pamphlet on fertilizing with manure if you're interested. One source had it free, another source wanted $2.00 for it. it was interesting.

[dogdoc]

Re: lime

What causes soil acidity?

Producers commonly ask this question of staff soil fertility and crops specialists. There are four major reasons for soils to become acidic: rainfall and leaching, acidic parent material, organic matter decay, and harvest of high-yielding crops. Wet climates have a greater potential for acidic soils. In time, excessive rainfall leaches the soil profile's basic elements (calcium, magnesium, sodium, and potassium) that prevent soil acidity. Soils that develop from weathered granite are likely to be more acidic than those developed from shale or limestone. Organic matter decay produces hydrogen ions (H+), which are responsible for acidity (an ion is a positively or negatively charged element). Like that from rainfall, acidic soil development from decaying organic matter is insignificant in the short term. Harvest of high-yielding crops plays the most significant role in increasing soil acidity. During growth, crops absorb basic elements such as calcium, magnesium, and potassium to satisfy their nutritional requirements. As crop yields increase, more of these limelike nutrients are removed from the field. Compared to the leaf and stem portions of the plant, grain contains minute amounts of these basic nutrients. Therefore, harvesting high-yielding forages such as bermudagrass and alfalfa affects soil acidity more than harvesting grain does.

Nitrogen fertilizer has been blamed for the increase in soil acidity problems throughout the region. Yes, when ammoniacal fertilizer materials are applied to the soil, acidity is produced, but the form of nitrogen removed by the crop is similar to that found in fertilizer. In reality, nitrogen fertilizer increases soil acidity by increasing crop yields, thereby increasing the amount of basic elements being removed.

I would agree that manure is a great source of natural fertilizer and will replenish depleted nutrients in the soil----but with the break down of the nitrogen I would think it would tend to make the soil more acidic

It has been a long time since Chemistry class?

[wtnhunt]

Re: lime

[ QUOTE ]

and the powdered lime is about a tenth of the cost as bagged pelleted lime!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, if you go and pick it up, carry it in your truck you can get a much lower rate.

Actually the cheapest way to get it around here is by the truck load, but what would you do with 25 tons of lime?

Do whatever you want. Yes, pelletized lime is more expensive, but for no more than you are going to need is it really worth saving 20 or 30 bucks? Think when I was checking around here last spring it was about 1.50 more for a bag of the pelletized than what the powder in a bag was. I thought I was making a good decision and saving some money, but will not use powdered form of lime ever again. Maybe my spreaders both just suck, but neither my hand push spreader or the coop spreader I have for my tractor seemed to like the powder.

Manure is great btw Chris if you have access to enough of it and have a way to handle it.

[dogdoc]

Re: lime

"When you apply fertilizers that have ammonium as a portion of the product, or some portion that will turn into ammonium, you are adding acidity to the soil. It doesn't matter what kind or type of fertilizer, just that it has ammonium (or ammonia) in it.

Ammonium is made up of nitrogen and hydrogen, three particles of hydrogen for each particle of nitrogen. (NH3-). Shortly after the ammonium reaches the soil, it binds to soil or organic matter. Through time, it is converted to nitrate by soil bacteria. the warmer the soil, the faster the conversion. It is the nitrate form of N that is most mobile in the soil, and most likely to leach into groundwater.

During the conversion to nitrate, the nitrogen element loses the three hydrogen and adds two oxygen. The oxygen comes from the air in the soil. The three hydrogen particles are free to float about the water in the soil and to react with substances in the soil. Free hydrogen is real active, and is the "acid" in anything. (Incidentally, acids taste tart, but I don't recommend that you go around tasting soil to see if it's tart or sweet.) The H+ can react with lime in the soil, forming water and carbon dioxide and be neutralized, it can tie up on soil particles, react with all sorts of chemicals or organisms in the soil, or it can just drift around in the soil water, waiting to react with (and mess up) all sorts of things. Plants have difficulty getting the chemical nutrients they need, in the proper amounts, when soil has too many hydrogen ions in the solution.

Some soils have a great ability to cope with these added H+ particles, they have large amounts of natural "lime" to convert the h+ into water, they have lots of organic matter and clay to bind the H+, taking it (temporarily) out of the soil solution. Other soils quickly lose the ability to "buffer" the H+ in the soil, and allow the H+ to build up in the soil water. Once a soil has become acid, it has lost it's ability to deactivate H+ particles, and is likely to become even more acid rapidly if H+ is added to the soil."

Oh--don't you love Chemistry

[AaronS]

Re: lime

[ QUOTE ]

Oh--don't you love Chemistry

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Chemistry was my least favorite class in college, or maybe it was the early morning 4 hour chem labs after partying the night before.

Now if the prof would have explained everything in terms of how if affects crops it would've been more interesting.

[Tominator]

Re: lime

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Oh--don't you love Chemistry

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Chemistry was my least favorite class in college, or maybe it was the early morning 4 hour chem labs after partying the night before.

Now if the prof would have explained everything in terms of how if affects crops it would've been more interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never took chemistry. I just know if I fix the soil, my sweet corn tastes reeeeeeaaaaaaal gooooooooooood.

[Guest MarylandQDMA]

Re: lime

[ QUOTE ]

Now if the prof would have explained everything in terms of how if affects crops it would've been more interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree

Frank

[Tominator]

Re: lime

[ QUOTE ]

What causes soil acidity?

Producers commonly ask this question of staff soil fertility and crops specialists. There are four major reasons for soils to become acidic: rainfall and leaching, acidic parent material, organic matter decay, and harvest of high-yielding crops. Wet climates have a greater potential for acidic soils. In time, excessive rainfall leaches the soil profile's basic elements (calcium, magnesium, sodium, and potassium) that prevent soil acidity. Soils that develop from weathered granite are likely to be more acidic than those developed from shale or limestone. Organic matter decay produces hydrogen ions (H+), which are responsible for acidity (an ion is a positively or negatively charged element). Like that from rainfall, acidic soil development from decaying organic matter is insignificant in the short term. Harvest of high-yielding crops plays the most significant role in increasing soil acidity. During growth, crops absorb basic elements such as calcium, magnesium, and potassium to satisfy their nutritional requirements. As crop yields increase, more of these limelike nutrients are removed from the field. Compared to the leaf and stem portions of the plant, grain contains minute amounts of these basic nutrients. Therefore, harvesting high-yielding forages such as bermudagrass and alfalfa affects soil acidity more than harvesting grain does.

Nitrogen fertilizer has been blamed for the increase in soil acidity problems throughout the region. Yes, when ammoniacal fertilizer materials are applied to the soil, acidity is produced, but the form of nitrogen removed by the crop is similar to that found in fertilizer. In reality, nitrogen fertilizer increases soil acidity by increasing crop yields, thereby increasing the amount of basic elements being removed.

I would agree that manure is a great source of natural fertilizer and will replenish depleted nutrients in the soil----but with the break down of the nitrogen I would think it would tend to make the soil more acidic

It has been a long time since Chemistry class?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know Todd. The link I provided listed organic matter as a way to balance soil and neutralize it more. I really don't know the chemistry behind it. Maybe it's assuming you have alkaline soil to begin with, as that's what we have here. The only fields that get limed around here are the corn fields. I think the farmers use it because they use so much anhydrous which the lime neutralizes. Don't really know.

Sometimes I curse our heavy, alkaline, clay soil, but in reality, we're pretty lucky to have the soil we do. By and large, it's pretty good.