Coyotes and deer

[Doc]

We all think about the effects of coyotes on our deer herds in terms of predation, but I have been wondering about other effects that coyotes might have on our bowhunting.

One of the reasons that we have a separate season for bow is so that we can hunt a relatively easy to pattern, undisturbed deer herd and be effective with our short-range weapons. Do you suppose that coyotes may be working against all that by keeping the deer herd in a constant state of aggitation, and changing patterns?

I've often wondered if coyotes may have the effect of making deer a bit more nocturnal by discouraging them from showing themselves grazing in a field during daylight hours.

Is it possible that coyotes may constantly alter daily feeding and bedding movement, keeping the bowhunter from establishing patterns and reliable ambush points?

How about coyotes leaving fresh scent in the vicinity of our stands? Could that account for deer occasionally spooking without any apparent reason?

Obviously, there is no way to prove any of these contentions, but I am curious as to what you all think about these other potential side-effects of a dense coyote population. Also, are there any other possible side-effects that you may have suspected or thought of?

Doc

[wtnhunt]

I would guess that yes coyotes and other predators(wolves, wild dogs) can put pressure on deer and cause them to do things outside of their normal patterns which might make patterning them or hunting them a little more challenging. In my opinion you cannot remove too many yotes.

[layin on the smackdown]

We all think about the effects of coyotes on our deer herds in terms of predation, but I have been wondering about other effects that coyotes might have on our bowhunting.

One of the reasons that we have a separate season for bow is so that we can hunt a relatively easy to pattern, undisturbed deer herd and be effective with our short-range weapons. Do you suppose that coyotes may be working against all that by keeping the deer herd in a constant state of aggitation, and changing patterns?

I've often wondered if coyotes may have the effect of making deer a bit more nocturnal by discouraging them from showing themselves grazing in a field during daylight hours.

Is it possible that coyotes may constantly alter daily feeding and bedding movement, keeping the bowhunter from establishing patterns and reliable ambush points?

How about coyotes leaving fresh scent in the vicinity of our stands? Could that account for deer occasionally spooking without any apparent reason?

Obviously, there is no way to prove any of these contentions, but I am curious as to what you all think about these other potential side-effects of a dense coyote population. Also, are there any other possible side-effects that you may have suspected or thought of?

Doc

Well Doc, you do bring some valid points to the table...However, the only one i would dispute or argue against is highlighted above...Coyotes are nocturnal animals themselves (with the exception of their breeding phase), so i would think that, if anything, this would make deer more apt to feeding in wide open spaces during daylight hour when coyotes are not active.

I think that coyotes do the most of their damage on deer herds when fawns are dropping...this makes easy pray for the yote...Other than that, i would think that most deer that fall prey to a coyote would be wounded or sick deer anyway...

I have never seen a deer spook due to scent left by a coyote, but then again, i cant see or smell that scent, so i wouldn't know. Since they both share the same habitat, i would think that deer grow somewhat use to that scent, and have an ability to sense how fresh the scent is, and whether it should be alarmed by it or not...very good questions though.

[Flintlock1776]

This is how I solve the situation:

[toddyboman]

Interesting points Doc....

I have to agree with these:

I think that coyotes do the most of their damage on deer herds when fawns are dropping...this makes easy pray for the yote...Other than that, i would think that most deer that fall prey to a coyote would be wounded or sick deer anyway...

Here is what I have observed with Coyotes and deer over the years....

Deer feeding in a food plot and a coyote go complete around and avoid the deer in the food plot.

I have watched deer chase/run a coyote away/out of a certain area.

Coyote come down a trail only to have deer follow the same trail later in the hunt.

I once shot a coyote while deer hunting only to again see deer later in the hunt.

I think as mentioned above the yotes do the most damage from injured deer and fawns.

[Doc]

Interesting thoughts and observations.

Here's another thought that I had: We know that deer biology in northern regions is intertwined with the severity of the winters. In many states, the deer have to go into the winters with a fair layer of fat reserves in order to just barely make it through to the following spring. Deer have developed winter feeding and living habits and suppressed movements designed to conserve every ounce of fat energy.

So with all that in mind, has anyone ever wondered just how much winter mortality is caused by excessive chasing by coyotes? Even if they don't bring the deer down, one has to wonder how much valuable energy is consumed by the deer just trying to get away.

Doc

[Orion_70]

"I think that coyotes do the most of their damage on deer herds when fawns are dropping...this makes easy pray for the yote...Other than that, i would think that most deer that fall prey to a coyote would be wounded or sick deer anyway..."

I personally shoot every coyote I see. As the above mentions, I think the most damage to deer is to the fawns and old/sick deer, but the damage they do to other wildlife is enormous. Any ground nesting birds are dealt serious damage by coyotes: qual, turkeys, larks, etc. along with other small game like little poor bunnies

The best coyote, is a dead coyote!

[wtnhunt]

Interesting points Doc....

I have to agree with these:

Here is what I have observed with Coyotes and deer over the years....

Deer feeding in a food plot and a coyote go complete around and avoid the deer in the food plot.

I have watched deer chase/run a coyote away/out of a certain area.

Coyote come down a trail only to have deer follow the same trail later in the hunt.

I once shot a coyote while deer hunting only to again see deer later in the hunt.

I think as mentioned above the yotes do the most damage from injured deer and fawns.

Have seen a doe and a single yote get within yards of each other and the yote never did chase, figure the doe had a fawn nearby. I would also kind of tend to think a single yote hunting is not a big deal for mature deer, however coyotes will hunt in packs, when they hunt in packs it may get the deer a little more concerned. Have on several occasions had deer get pretty bothered blowing and going to full alert and even leaving the area only to later have a couple yotes or dogs come through, yes those deer did leave the field they were feeding in. Sure they probably came back later on at some point, but if they avoid the area for a couple days at that prime time that may well have blown a weekend hunt for that area.

For a while we were getting a number of trail cam pics of yotes on deer trails, sometimes within minutes of deer on the same trail, and sometimes as many as 3 yotes traveling together http://www.realtree.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65591, so no deer it does not seem that deer are bothered by the scent of yotes walking the same trails. I killed I think 6 or 7 male yotes in about a 10-12 month span off of the main field where we deer hunt, and while I know there are still some around I have not been seeing the yotes around lately. I still kill every one of them I get an opportunity to. Like said above the yotes are hardest on fawns(read somewhere that a female yote will kill an incredible amount of fawns to feed her pups), kind of think in the fall that yotes will still hunt yearlings too, which would seem to me to put pressure on a group of deer especially where there are smaller groups.

Yotes do hunt during daytime too. Have gotten no shortage of pics of yotes during daylight http://www.realtree.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65108.

With all that said, we have a problem here with wild dogs, they absolutely will chase deer and run them to near exhaustion and in my experience I believe that can cause a hotspot to go completely dead for a few days.

[Doc]

With all that said, we have a problem here with wild dogs, they absolutely will chase deer and run them to near exhaustion and in my experience I believe that can cause a hotspot to go completely dead for a few days.

We have had dog problems in the past, and they seem to be much more devastating than any coyotes. I think the reason is that they are usually neighborhood dogs that chase for sport rather than food, and they can be very efficient predators even though they may be part time predators. Back when I was a kid, we used to have sheep, and dogs were a constant problem. They would get into a flock and take a bite out of this one and a bite out of that one, and just kind of run through the whole flock without just concentrating on one. They could wipe out a small farmer in just one night. In fact sheep farming has pretty much disappeared from the area.

We have not had any dog/deer problems in quite a few years. I think that some hunters (who shall go nameless) took the matter into their own hands, and the problem quietly disappeared. While that solution is quite illegal in our state, it probably is the only solution that there really is. It is that or just put up with the carnage until the offending dogs die of old age.

Doc

[johnf]

Like has already been said a few time, I think the biggest loss of healthy deer due to coyotes is during birth or young fawns. I've seen lone yotes 30 yards from adult and adolescent deer and they didn't seem to care that they were there. As for running, I think the bigger problem is packs of feral dogs and people running deer with their dogs year round. It happens where I'm at and probably all over the country whether it's legal or not.

I do shoot every yote that I get a chance at.

[HUNTINGMAN]

This is what I think of deer and turkey.

[Flintlock1776]

In balance they all need to be there. If it goes too much either way there are negative impacts to the environment regardless of who is gaining, deer or yotes

[Doc]

In balance they all need to be there. If it goes too much either way there are negative impacts to the environment regardless of who is gaining, deer or yotes

Not necessarily. The emergence of coyotes here in NYS is a relatively recent event (within the last half of my lifetime). And actually, the deer, us, other creatures, and the habitat got along quite nicely without them.

Doc