257bob

The Genesis bow is 10-20# draw weight.

That is a great deer congrats on that first of all. I couldn't agree more about Terry's great work.

I don't think I was yelling, it was more like typing with a lot of emphasis. LOL Hutchies I disagree with your comparison to rifles and bows. I spend just as much, if not more time getting the right load built for my rifles as I do getting my broadheads to shoot properly. I know many gun guys that would argue you to the end, but I am not here to argue. I am simply saying....... I am glad you have a firm grasp on archery tuning techniques. I have met you and know that you shoot very good. I met Tony a couple years ago at the Oklahoma get together and know from experience he is a great shooter and has a method that obviously works very well for him. I am sure that shtr's bow shoots lights out. I am comfortable shooting my broadheads and field points together out to 50 yards. According to this thread, we all get there by different methods (and that is fine and dandy with me) as it should be with every outdoorsman on this forum. I like that when someone has an issue with their bow, gun, treestand, or camera that they can post it on this forum and get an adverse view of opinions and options to resolve their problem. I agree 100% about your statement on ethical ranges. If you know your limits and don't exceed them, I don't see a problem with 6" and 20 yards either. I was and have in no way been offended by anyone in this thread.

I'll be in Kansas on opening weekend. This will be my wife's first year to carry a gun into the dove fields. Can't wait.

1. Is the Mt. Lion a popular pet choice out there in PA? LOL 2. If a male and female pet escaped could it be possible that they bred in the wild? LOL 3. Is it legal to shoot a Mt. Lion in your state? (Are there even any regulations in place?) I'm not an expert, don't know much about the Northeast part of the country, but Mt. Lions are becoming more and more prominent and seem to be moving east as their populations grow. I ran into this issue (question 3) in Kansas they told me when I asked that their simply were not any in the state. They would not give me an answer on the legality of killing one because they simply did not exist.

I'm seeing this debate and realizing that if you set your bow up your way and it works GREAT! Whether you paper tune, walk back tune, or bare shaft tune it doesn't matter if it gives you the results that you are looking for. Now then if some shooters are content with shooting (by your standards shtr) sub par then let them. It's the same with gun hunters that just want to hit a pie plate at 100 yards. Not everyone has the time, patience or knowledge to set up a finely tuned bow that shoots perfect and yet they still manage to kill deer every year. I prefer bare shaft paper tuning, it works for me. I think in most instances paper tuning is the easiest and most convenient place to start. If that doesn't give you the results that you are looking for by all means don't be satisfied try another method. BOTTOM LINE WHAT WORKS FOR ME ISN'T WRONG, WHAT WORKS FOR YOU ISN'T WRONG AND IT IS WRONG FOR ANYONE TO GET ON HERE AND CRITICIZE AND CONDEMN ANOTHER METHOD JUST BECAUSE WHAT THEY DO WORKS FOR THEM.

To this day the state of Kansas does not acknowledge the presence of Mt. Lions. I saw one in SE Kansas several years ago. I don't have pictures or any other proof. I also know, whether anyone believes me or not I don't care, they are their. I know what I saw. Those of you that haven't seen them or need proof I understand your skepticism, many people see a large bobcat and automatically say Mt. Lion. I don't know if they are in PA or not, but it would not surprise if they are. I have lived in several states (Kansas, Oklahoma, Iowa, and Michigan). In Iowa there was a big debate about their presence as well and then in one winter, one was killed on the highway, one was photographed on a trail cam, and another was killed by a hunter. All in different parts of the state. My point is this, just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they aren't there either.

I like the Nikon idea as well, but of the two you mentioned I would go with the 3200. They are an excellent scope for the money.

I hope they add it to my package (Dish Network), Mens Outdoor and Recreation channel was taken off just a few months ago and now I don't have anything but ESPN2's shows on the weekends.

That's a real sweet piece. I am not real familiar with that model so I don't know if it's standard, but I love the solid trigger guard. Let's see some groups when you get to the range.

But that's a good 19 hour drive from where I live in Michigan.

We have several thousand acres that we have permission to hunt just a half mile from the house in Oklahoma.

Unfortunately you might not find exactly what you are looking for. First have you cross checked with Weatherby Vanguard stocks as Howa produces the Vanguard for Weatherby. In midway they show stocks by Accurate Innovations, Boyds, and Hogue for the Howa 1500 or Vanguard rifles. I think to get a stock exactly like you want though you have two options: Find someone to custom build what you want (very expensive) or in my estimation the best choice trade your rifle in on a Remington (you can find anything for a model 700)

Badlands. Pricey, but the waranty and customer service is all worth it.

The last time I saw this kind of a post come around I had the oldest, first vehicle on the thread. Looks like I still hold that title. I started with a 1951 Willys CJ -3A and I still have it. It has a flat head 4 cylinder and will climb straight a wall. Top speed of about 45 mph. I have had many new vehicles and to this day it is still my favorite. BTW....this vehicle was 28 years old when I was born and it was also my dad's first vehicle, lots of history in that jeep. It'll be in the family forever. It will be my son's first vehicle as well.

I also use Alpine softlock. Unlike many others I practice and hunt with a full quiver on my bow. This is one of the quietest quivers on the market.

257bob 28 Oct. 1-Dec. 31

I am also surprised that not more have jumped on here and proclaimed the bitz. I have been using the grayling and it works flawlessly for half the price.

I want to know if you gained any velocity with the new string over the factory. It looks awesome though. Good luck this year.

Paper tuning is another way to fine tune your setup. Start by making sure your rest is installed correctly (the arrow sits level with the berger hole, is 90 degrees off the string and center shot is set. I only paper tune when there is a problem. If my broadheads won't fly like my field points then I paper tune. I see a lot of guys that come into the archery shop that want their bow paper tuned, but don't know why (they just heard it needed it). My training in this came from Bowtech's proshop so its not just my opinion. If you are having arrow flight problems and your rest is installed correctly then you should paper tune.

Questions? Is this open to any RT forum member? What do non resident tags cost? Are they available over the counter?

With today's cartridges, that you call overkill, in a well built rifle, 450 yards is a REALISTIC shot. That is using the the method you preach. "Years of practice, preperation, and a steady hand come together in making that perfect shot." If a person doesn't put in the time to develop a load and learn how it reacts in different situations through practice he/she doesn't have any business shooting past 250 yards. I on the other hand know the capabilities of my firearms. I think the boat analogy works only if we were comparing 30-06 to a 50bmg, but we are comparing .243s to 30-06 to 300 Win mag to 300 ultra mag. When the differences in recoil with a 30-06 and a 300 mag are so minimal it would be more appropriate to say. You can drag the same boat with a half ton or a 3/4 ton diesel, both would be perfectly effective which one makes more sense? All my statements are in good fun. I do not intend to get under anyone's skin, but I just see it another way.

That's good news. My uncle has seen them twice while bowhunting in NE OK. I had one in my crosshairs in SE KS while I was there in college but didn't shoot because I wasn't sure about the laws. Man I wish to this day I could have pulled the trigger. That's good news, but who decides if they are a danger or not.

I am only familiar with the .308 caliber in each of your listings. Accuracy for both were superb (less than .75 inch @ 100yds). I would mainly consider the rifles. I am and have always will be a Remington fan. They are easy to upgrade (stocks, barrels, triggers, etc.) And are generally capable of good accuracy out of the box. With some tuning and tricking superb accuracy. Which rifle do like the best?

I don't know if it's testosterone or "mines bigger than yours". I would compare it to the guy looking for a faster bow. The average bow shot is only 18 yards. Why does everyone want a 300 fps bow when a recurve shooting 180 fps will do the job. Why do most draw 65-70# when 40# will do the trick. Do you shoot a 40#-50# bow? I would venture to say that probably most of the "scopers" who don't see the need for all the extra power, speed, and recoil (if they bow hunt also) are pulling more draw poundage than it takes to kill a deer at their average shot yardage. I know this is rifle page and sorry to bring in archery, but this is how I can relate it. I love to shoot guns (all guns), pellet guns and Ultra mags. Will a .223 kill a deer? Sure with proper placement of the shot. Will a 35# bow kill a deer? Sure with proper shot placement. I normally don't shoot my deer over 100 yards (I also like to sneak in as close as I can and be a "HUNTER"), but when that 200" Kansas whitetail stands up 450 yards away at last light, that .243 or 30-06 is just going to leave me broken hearted. I know the Ultramags and even Mags are overkill 99% of the time and shoulders are sore after sighting in at the range, but wouldn't it all be worth it if you had the capability of capitalizing on that 1% opportunity. Just my two cents.