FrontierGander

from (sabotloader) Western Powders has changed their stance somewhat on BH-209 and corrosion. The powder itself is not the problem the soot left in the barrel can be. This is the label on the new bottles of BH-209 stating the new policy... In a recent email from Western Powders they indicated the same thing and said the labels have been changed to reflect their findings....

thats just some stories i read on www.dougsmessageboards.proboards.com I dont work for 777 777 will rust and corrode your bore too, along with pyrodex and the real stuff. Just thought it would help save heartache and $$$ down the road. 2.5 hours was probably the guy cleaning the rust out of his barrel! Still calling BS on my post even though i put the facts straight in front of your face?

Just wanted to share some stories off of another forum. These are just a few stories: Call it coincidence, bad Carma, or just plane bad luck :-[ :-[ :'( as some one else just posted about this problem with BH209, but I just returned back home from a quite good friends house depressed, greatly disappointed and with more than $200 gone from my checking account. Got a call from my friend (at 7am) saying that his blued/walnut Encore 209x50 that he bought on my advice and then shot BH209 out of it again on my advice was rusted so bad it had to be seen to be believed. I dropped what I was doing and went over to his house. Sure enough the rust in his Encore barrel was so bad you could see it by just looking at the end of the muzzle. I had the presence of mind to bring with me my entire gun cleaning/maintenance kit and gun smithing tools. I removed the barrel and placed it in my portable vice and proceeded to give the barrel as cleaning that lasted over two and a half strait hours. I got the patches to come out about 95% still white and bore back to a mirror finish, but the pitting caused by the rust was so bad it was easily visible to the naked eye by simply holding the barrel up to the light and looking up it. My friend never once even hinted that I was responsible, he simply wanted to see if there was anything I could do to fix it. Because it is so close to hunting season in IL, I felt i had no choice but to buy him another 209x50 barrel. He said he will not order it until we go shooting together tomorrow, but I told him to order it now because I am 99% certain the rust will return, and NSS might not be open when we return home tomorrow and he will need that barrel asap as he planed on using it during shotgun deer season. For those wondering I did ask how long he let his Encore remain with a dirty bore having shot BH209 out of it, he said exactly 5 days in his basement that has a dehumidifier going 7/24 12 out of 24 hours a day and the Encore was stored in a fire proof Liberty gun safe with a large container of silicon desiccant also in the safe. He shot it on Tuesday of this week. So I am now the not so proud owner of a severely pitted .50 caliber Encore barrel. So I feel this proves beyond doubt that BH209 residue if left in your barrel WILL 100% RUST IT for certain. Bottom line either treat BH209 like any other BP sub and clean your barrel ASAP, or risk ruining it. Lastly is there any way I can salvage my new 209x50 barrel and remove the pitting? my gut is telling me quite strongly most likely NO!!. I will write a letter to the makers of BH209 just to see what they will or will not do for me. After all it says on the bottle and on their pamphlet advertizing BH209 as being NON-CORROSIVE, when clearly beyond doubt it IS NOT and will RUST your barrel. Ironic that the first and only (and hopefully last) firearm I have ever had to replace due to rust of any kind did not even belong to me. If this costly mistake educates and prevents others from suffering the same fate, then I guess it is not a total loss. It is really a GD shame as my friends Encore was real shooter. Live and learn, be well, Arthur. ------------------------------------------------------ I bought a new Knight Disc Extreme in July.BH209 is the only powder i have used in th rifle.I normally clean after every session.Last weekend I fired 6 shots.My son and his family stopped by.So i put it away and forgot to clean it.BIG MISTAKE.There was just as much rust as any powder i have ever used.The barrel is actually pitted.Im so disappointed in myself and bh 209.Actually im disgusted.After all the hype about this powder.I will use up what I have.But i will not waste the money on it after that.IF YOU ARE USING BH209 KEEP A CLOSE WATCH!!!!!!.It may buy you a day or two be fore you clean.But i would not go much longer.Billy ------------------------------------------------------- This is a debate on many forums. BH209 WILL RUST YOUR BBL. I nearly ruined a brand new Omega with BH209 due to their bogus claims. I shot the rifle and left it in my gun room for one week before cleaning, something I've done many times with 777 with no ill effects or rust issues. The bbl was full of rust and pitted. I was able to lap it and remove all but some minor pits near the breech. I called Western Powders, they gave me an apology, sent me some cleaning supplies, and said they were going to have a meeting to discuss these issues that have been coming up. The bottom line is they give false advertisement leading consumers to believe this is as user friendly as a smokeless MLer. If you treat this just as any other BP sub, it has no equal. I love it, but I am very disappointed in that initial experience as well as the fact that they never changed the advertising. Anyway, it cleans easier than any other sub and performs better, so I'll keep using it. After a ranges session, clean it like it were 777 and you'll be fine. --------------------------------------------------- Blackhorn 209 is noncorrosive and virtually free of solid residue. Only a thin film of soot remains in the barrel, which will not harm your muzzleloader. There is no need to clean your barrel immediately after use. However, as with all firearms, we recommend using at least one wet patch of solvent after shooting to protect your barrel from moisture. but if you click on down load brochure this is what it says so you might have a case! http://www.blackhorn209.com/files/pdf/brochure.pdf Immediate Cleaning Not Necessary Blackhorn 209 is noncorrosive and virtually free of solid residue so there is no need to clean your barrel immediately after use. Only a thin film of soot remains in the barrel, which DOES NOT absorb moisture or harm your muzzleloader In short, Clean your rifle after using BH209!!

My current baby. CVA Accura .50cal , 105gr Pyrodex RS, 247 or 250gr Thor. It currently wearing a 3-9x32 Bushnell Sportsman scope.

i just put my finger down the bore and it does a good job. Haha no, im kidding. Look for finger cots, balloons, condoms * although they are smelly and have a better use for something else* 99% of the time i carry the rifle barrel down.

that bullet will come apart so stay away from the shoulder or frontal shots.

i shot a 362gr custom tip into a doe that left a 2' wide blood trail for 30 yards. I also went to new mexico and had my brother in law test out a new conical (Thor) and that sucker was awesome. I'll have to post the story some time.

2.6lbs? You got a heavy trigger! Mines right around 1.5 lbs Estimated.

I'd like to get either, Another CVA Accura, This time in Stainless/Camo Thumbhole or a Custom made .58 Hawken based off the original rifle.

ive owned both the omega and optima/accura. The sights that came on my omega wouldnt even adjust down to where i needed them. 8" high @ 50 yards and i was bottomed out and shooting a few inches to t he left. CVA really is a full lifetime warranty. CVA has replaced missing sights on rifles ive bought / traded that didnt come with any, no questions asked. Ive never had to send any of my rifles in for repair either which is a good thing. cva warrantys all factory finished firearms to be free of defects in workmanship or materials for the lifetime of the firearm. Its limited to the original consumer owner. Thats where the limited part comes in. But they do not care if you tell them that you are the second owner or not.

tried them in an omega i had. 4 bullets was more than enough! My nads were handing down my pant leg and into my boots thats how much it took getting them all the way seated. I didnt like the fact that the mushroom that did form, usually broke off and left a lop sided bullet.

CVA has a lifetime warranty. Better barrel on the CVA that WILL shoot everything from conicals to sabots, Real stainless steel barrel unlike the other 2 tc's. Open sights that you can easily get into view for the states that require open sights only. Thumbhole stock is available for the Accura. Ever open and close the action on the triump or bone collector? Heres a short video on me operating the CVA Accura. http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm53/thepowerbeltforum/CVA%20Accura/?action=view&current=Accura-2030.flv

You guys want to see an awesome conical? Check these out! http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net/thor-bullets-shooting-range-f36/cva-accura-50cal-thor-t594.htm http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net/thor-bullets-testing-f32/247gr-colorado-thor-test-1-t590.htm http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net/thor-bullets-shooting-range-f36/250gr-ballistic-tip-t598.htm http://thepowerbeltforum.powerguild.net/thor-bullets-testing-f32/250gr-ballistic-tip-thor-t603.htm Ive shot these from 2 rifles so far, i have another inline coming in tomorrow to try them in hopefully. I feel these are the Ultimate Conical! Over 2,000fps with 120 grains Pyrodex RS. And as you can see, they are a failproof copper bullet!

CVA Accura with Thumbhole. Upper right hand corner is 3 shots @ 100 yards with 110gr RS and 247gr thor conical.

Winchester W209. Winchester 777's are to dirty to use.

Rifle works and shoots beautifully! 100yards with 100gr RS, 348gr Aerotip Powerbelt. Remington #11 cap. Be sure that your lockplate screw isnt over tightened. Also. it sounds to me like the backside of the hammer ( towards the stock) is making contact and when the fouling builds up, it gums it up and slows things down. Maybe file a litle metal off that nub on the hammer. You're main spring could also be a little weak, they are known for that. Could either buy a new one off ebay for around $10 or call Traditions and get one of theirs! I did this one a cva mountain rifle flinter and traditions main spring is a lot more hard/springy. Some filing of the little nub that slides into the lockplate is required.

My old man out shot me about 4 days ago. Same cabelas hawken, same load, same everything. 100 yards open sights, First test @ 50 yards with 90gr pyrodex rs and the 247gr colorado thor into a jug of water and a damp sand bucket behind it. Bullet was .500" Dia New. After recovery it Expanded to 1.17"

I got my bullets today so i took a Cabelas Sporterized Hawken .50cal out to my 100 yard range. My first shot was at my sand bucket so i could recover the bullet ( I did!!) and my next 3 shots were at the target. I ordered the .500" 247gr Colorado Thor and on a clean bore, they will lift off the charge but once you foul it, they stay in place tight. This rifle will be using a fouled bore during hunting season. Accuracy - My first outing i was pretty over heated with firing 3 rifles and getting everything on. First 3 shot group @ 100 yards. I was damn happy with this group because this rifle has a 1:48 twist and supposedly wasnt supposed to do to great with these bullets. My guess is due to the length but im a believer in the words "You'll never know, Until you try" After the 4 shots, i took it home and swabbed the barrel clean and took a rest to settle the nerves and measure out more powder charges and to weigh the bullets on my scale. I used (94 grains by weight) Goex 3f in this rifle and the fouling was very acceptable. Accuracy again, Pretty darn awesome! I blew shot #3 probably due to running up and down the range after each shot but thats okay, thats what you do when you're in the field hunting. Shot #1 left a big smile on my face ear to ear. I do plan on swabbing between shots just to see if accuracy will get even better or if it will do the opposite. It was an awesome day and the rifle is now ready for hunting season after just 7 shots!

I had planned on using Powerbelts this season but i got a bunch of Thor conicals ( solid copper) to try out in my rifles. If they shoot good they will be shot in the followiing: CVA Accura .50 CVA Mountain Stalker .50 CVA Plainsman .50 Flintlock CVA Hawken .50 Investarms .50cal Hawken They're based on the Barnes bullet. Should be interesting to see how they will do, Especially in the Accura!

I found it Aprox. 3 to 4 feet behind the target in pine needles. If you'd like me to test the 200gr shockwave i'd be more than happy to. Those are not available in my part of the country due to no one restocking so i'd need you to send me around 6 or 8 of them. I have a couple other sabot rounds i will be testing.

The .45 225gr Powerbelt is my favorite .45cal bullet. I had used it one year on a mule deer doe and that sucker left the biggest blood trail ive ever seen. It only went about 5 yards after the hit, but the blood that came out was just amazing.

Setting up shooting sticks is a pain in the butt out here. Normally we just have enough time to look at the head to see if it has legal size antlers. They now have shooting sticks in a sling. That'd be a real pain in the butt LOL.

i use 6 o'clock hold. Its dead on but yes it was shooting to the left. I didnt want to adjust sights as its sighted in for round ball.

Did some experiementing with a standard 348gr Hollow Point Powerbelt with 90gr 3f goex into soaking wet news paper @ 50 yards. Heres a movie- Fast forward it to 50 seconds. The bullet will impact shortly then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bI-68FdOi5U Exit Hole, Recovered bullet weight was 181 grains. I plan on redoing this test with the Inserts that im experimenting with this year and see how the performance will do then. This bullet shed a lot of weight and im hoping that my insert will allow the bullet to hold at least 90% of its original weight and not pancake like the bullet above did. A slow motion pic captures all of the water that was in the news paper, flying everywhere!

Muzzleloading is all about honing your stalking stills. If you want to blast deer at 250-300 yards, save that for a centerfire. Theres just to much that can go wrong with a muzzleloader at that distance. I've never had to shoot over 150 yards in the almost 10 years ive been muzzleloading.