bowana

Its really hard telling if the comment really means "The lever action rifle" and not the cartridge. I do remember watching Curt Gowdy narrate "The Rifleman" (was a series of VHS tapes "The Bow Hunter, In Pursuit of the King-King of the North series) and during the show he talks about the market hunters of the late 1800's. One market hunter by the name of "Chase Benjamin from Alpena, MI" shot 2796 deer. His photo is shown in the program along with his rifle and his shell belt. I believe it may be a Winchester model 73. Judging from the shell loops, it looks as though it is a 44-40 or 38-40. Someone (me included) should do some research on this (hint...it would make a great school project). I'm not so inclined to believe that comment is even close to being factual. In the early 1900's, the whitetail nearly became extinct. It was estimated in 1885 that the entire deer population in the US was only 350,000. I believe today there are over 20 million deer in the US. Just....maybe the "lever gun" can hold that title, but the thuty-thuty....NO WAY! I know a lot of Marlins and Winchesters were sold, but I'm inclined to think that the bolt guns (a lot of '06 Springfield rifles came home from the wars) were in use out west during the 50's-70's. There were not a lot of deer east of the Mississippi until late 70's early 80's. By the way my Remington model 700 chambered in 7mm Remington Ultra Short Mag (160 grain Nosler Accubond) is my favorite deer rifle (for today anyway).

That old 30-06 will do anything the smaller bores will do...and better. I love the 25-06 and the 257 Roberts. They are a couple of my personal favorites. But, The 7mm mags and 30 bores tend to handle the wind a little better. Don't worry about over kill...I can guarantee that the speed goat will not complain and a good taxidermist can fix big holes at no or little cost. Choose a bullet like the 180 gr Nosler Accubond. Any bullet that has a high ballistic coefficient is the ticket. This bullet is close to .500. :gunsmilie:

One of the greatest pistols for CCW use that there is. The 228 just seems to have the right size frame/grip thickness combo.

I have probably bought more rifle scopes than I will ever use. I have: 1 Leupold VariXII 7 Leupold VarIXIII's 3 Leupold LPS scopes 1 Bushnell 6500 1 Swarovski Z6 (my latest purchase) 1 Burris shotgun scope with L/Retical tasco's, weavers, simmons and redfields the simple conclusion is this: 1.Buy the best you can afford. 2. Spend the most on Binoculars....second rifle scope....third rifle (you can't shoot what you can't see) 3. If you are going to travel out west, use horses, or work this scope hard....buy a Leupold. They just work and thier customer service is second to none. Quick story: I hunted out in Montana and my scope stayed out in the snow/environment waaay....longer......than it should have. Leupold repaired same no questions asked......in 12 days. They are clear, they adjust well and work OK in low light conditions. WORTH EVERY PENNY. 3. If eastern whitetail hunting with a rifle or long range muzzleloader SERIOUSLY consider a Bushnell 6500. The low light capability is better than scopes costing twice as much. I don't know why.....but I can tell you that it has the same low light capability as my Leupold LPS 2.5x10. the 6500 was around $680 the LPS $1150. 4. If you want the best...buy a Swarovski. I shot a Mulie deer at over 380 yards (ask Dean Haun that runs Rocky Point Outfitters in Thompson Falls, MT) with a Weatherby 338-378 using my new Z6. It was like shooting fish in a barrel. The clarity and eye relief are to die for. Yea, I paid a mint for it.......but really worth it. But, like doc states.....the dollar factor does count. I love my Swarovski, but I have to give the ultimate nod to Leupold.

Like they say on Wall Street...."Buy!....Buy!....Buy!!!

Hmmmm......common sense might be the start of a whole new forum. But...your right. Common sense to me is that you don't stand on superman's cape, you don't spit in to the wind, you don't pull the mask off the ol' Lone Ranger and you "don't call band directors a panzy!

Michigan requires Prints, Background check, NRA certified safety course-requires class room and range time (I think I paid $125)......then afterwards....you must appear in front of a gun board. If everything goes well, permit (whole process costs about $225). Michigan has an extensive lists of prohibited areas and carry issues. Most are common sense.

I have to agree with Mr. Strut 10. I shoot a Weatherby 338-378. I shoot a Nosler 250 Gr partition and H1000 powder as well (Sometimes Reloader 25), a true 3000 fps cartridge. BUT, it takes a special person to control the trigger the way you need to for 5-600 yard work. None of my range buddies can shoot it accurately. Borrow a heavy .33 before laying out the cash. Realistically for deer, the 270 Weatherby maybe the Flat shooter of the bunch with high ballistic coefficient 140 gr bullets (like the Nosler Accubond). A Weatherby Accumark rifle in that caliber is really a semi custom rifle. Its built with a Criterion button rifled barrel and I believe an HS precision stock that is bedded using an aluminum block. ****' uv a rifle for stock. I have a 270 WSM and I believe the 270 Weatherby Mag will out shoot mine by 200 fps! That's smok'in.

Very...nice...rig! So...who gets it worse..the guy pulling the trigger or the vermon charging the muzzle. I love it when someone shows a beauty AND a powerhouse. Well done!

Oh....as far as the 7 Mag out shining the 300 WSM.....Double Hmmmmmmm.........I can't say ok?

I was hoping someone would bring up Jack O'Connor's name. May we be struck by lightning if we don't when discussing the 270 win. What we are comparing are .277 inch and .284 inch bullets. The 7mag has the powder capacity and capability to handle heavier bullets....and in theory.....provide more down range energy...that's on paper and in theory. However, neither are 500 yard rifles. Those are the .338 Ultras, 338-378 Weatherby, 338 Lapau and some of the 30 Cal's that hold 100+ grains of powder. I like big and use a 338-378 in Montana every year. My guide and his daughter use a 7 Mag and a 270 win. Both have shot twice as many Elk than I ever will. Did the Elk complain.....I reckon not. So.....Jack O'connor....don't roll over in your grave. We are all trying to convince ourselves that bigger is better...but all the dead elk and deer shot with your beloved 270 win..keep the fire of debate alive. Yes, your legacy lives.

If the rifle is the 116 series....you got a sweet deal. Shot my first black bear with that rifle. I always use a 225 grain bullet. Its a little better for long range shooting out of a .338. With Swift-A frame or Nosler partition bullets....it will stop anything short of Dangerous African Game. Probably the best all round Elk round ever made. I know many will argue the .30 cal magnums are....but the high ballistic coefficient of a .33 cal bullet gives it a nod in the wind and down range. As far a Savage rifles....very accurate right out of the box and the best bang for the buck hands down. These days I usually end up putting a new barrel on a trued Remington or Sako action and swap the trigger for a Rifle Basix or Jewell Trigger. But every now and then I pull out my trusty Savage 116 FSAK (I paid $460 for it in the mid 90's) and shoot as tight of groups as I do with my $3000 custom rig. Why? Because guns are like Jays potato chips.....I CAN'T HAVE JUST ONE!!

Wow! Nice collection

I've shot deer (both large mulies and whitetails) with Ballistic silver tips, Nosler Accubonds, Hordandy Interbonds, Swift Siccorro, and Nosler Ballistic Tips. Nosler Accubonds and Hordandy Interbonds seem to group the best, (under 1" in my custom Kreiger 300 win mag and 30-06 Ackley IMP) although my 308 savage super stryker likes the Ballistic Tip Bullets and my Browning Carbine in 300 WSM likes the Swift bullets! I have only had to trail one Mulie in the last 5 years......yep...shooter error. But, we did find him. I really can't say one kills more that the next. But, move up to bigger game and I move up to Swift A-Frame and Nosler Partition. I won't hunt elk with the deer bullets. My 338-378 launches a 250 gr partition at 3020 FPS using H1000 powder. That's over 5000 foot pounds of energy coming out of the muzzle. I don't think the bullets will hold together at less than 100 yards bonded or not. This based on theory of course......sounds like an experiment in the works.:hammer1:

I own a custom 300 win mag (Krieger barrel and Weatherby Mark5 Action and a Browning in 300 WSM. My 300 Win Mag is a bit faster and more accurate (but, I paid for that) and the 300 WSM is a dream to shoot. From a ballistic standpoint, they are awfully close. I think you made a good choice at a good price. I like hand loading the Win mag better (easier and I have a lot more components) but, I have to say that the short fat case is hear to stay.

Well, I'm glad to see that someone brought up the fabled "Jack O'Connor". Anyone that has read gun magazines over the last 20 years probably knows more about the .270 win than any other rifle because Jack wrote about it so much. Shooting and reloading for numerous Win, Rem, Ruger and Savage rifles I personally find the 270 win to be inherently more accurate than the 7 mag. I have owned one 700 BDL that would consistently print about 1" at 100 yards at its best. I have had 3 270 Win's when loaded with 140 grain bullets (Ballistic Tip) would consistently print 1/2" groups at 100. My input....If you have a 7 mag that prints 1/2" or better at 100 yards.....DON'T SELL IT! Because at 500 yards, a deer looks awfully small and your rifle better be up to those 1/2" groups. As long as you shoot an animal broad side and your selected Cal/load can still achieve 1000 foot pounds of energy.....I consider cal a mute point. Ask any terrorist that was shot with a 5.56mm, 6.8 SPC, 7.62 or 50 BMG this question. This is what we use to sing to cadence in the MP core: Marksman Aim for center Sharpshooters Shoulder High But the Experts are a smil'in when we aim between the eyes!

The big difference between Button Rifling and the most common form of barrel making "Hammer Forged" is that the barrel that is buttoned is done so with less stress on the steel. While I own a number of good hammer forged barrels, buttoned and "cut" rifled barrels are my most accurate rifles. I own a factory Weatherby Accumark 338-378 that thinks its a varmint rifle. I can shoot 3/4" groups at 200 yards. It has a buttoned rifle barrel. I also have a custom TC barrel that is chambered in 6.8 spc. It shoots 1/2" groups and is buttoned rifled.

I own the 460 and it is a deer hunting dream. I'm currently just shooting the factory 200 gr rounds. It is a very accurate round. I can truly shoot 200 yards. I would like to play around with the 300 cast bullets and 260 grain Nosler. I have owned the 500. Too much recoil with full house rounds. Not as well suited for hunting as the 460.

I could shoot pictures like these...no even better...if I could just find the record button.

How about a 577 T-Rex?

You picked two great rounds to debate over. I love them both. I actually had the chamber reamed on my 25-06 and made it an Ackley Improved (what a barn burner). Thats a hint for you hand loaders (watch for an up and coming thread on Ackley Improved-40 degree shoulder cartridges). I own a couple of 308's and a 25-06. I really can't tell any difference in recoil unless I shoot hot 180 gr loads in the 308. If you ever plan on using the rifle to elk hunt, then I'd opt for the 308. Really, even with todays premium bullets a black bear is no match for the 25-06. If you plan on hunting coyotes, the 25-06 is a wonderful choice. If I had no other big game rifle and was to hunt only whitetail then I'd opt for the 308. Like everyone has pointed out, you can buy premium ammo anywhere. You can also buy good bulk generic ammo from Cabela's or Cheaper than dirt for practice as well. Let us know what you settle on and happy shopping!

Here are the pics of the rifles I would want in Iraq! Left is my SOCOM16 (top) and M4 in 6.8 SPC. Right is a 6.8 vs. 5.56mm.

Remember, the Iraq/Afghanistan conflict was not what the 5.56 mm was specifically designed for. This campaign has lasted far longer than anticipated and the urban role has changed. I'm not sure how many of you have served in a conflict, but I carried an M60 in the jungles of Honduras in the 1980's and I can tell you that the 308 round carried in bulk is HEAVY. It also takes up alot more space in box mags. The Army in in the process if analyzing a new round for the M16 variants. It is based on the old Remington 30 case (Basically a 30-30 case that is rimless) and is known as the 6.8 SPC. It fires a .277 inch bullet (same as a 270 winchester) and is generally loaded with bullets in the 110-130 grain weight. I own an M-4 custom rifle I built from K-Tonics and it fires the round flawlessly. The mags I have hold 25 rounds (I also have some 5 round hunting mags). It is a VERY accurate rifle. I also own a TC Encore with a custom barrel and hand load 130 gr bullets for my son to deer hunt with. The rifle has virtually no recoil and the ballistics are certainly superior to the Lil' 223 round. I'll post a pic this week. I also own a Springfield SOCOM-16 in 308. If I were running around in a Hum-Vee all day I would want this rifle. With an Aimpoint on top, this rifle is deadly. But, If I had to tote the rifle around in the heat of the desert all day.......no way. I'd opt for the M-4 in 6.8SPC all day long. 45 vs 9mm? Great debate if you a civilian. I was a Military Police Investigator and carried the 45 until 1985 (they switched us to the 9's). Did not care. Because in combat, if you have to revert to a side arm it generally means two things: 1. Your SGLI Insurance is about to be paid 2. Johnnie is going to be tak'in care of your girl back home real soon!

I own 6 Leupold VariXIII scopes, 1 VariXII, and 2 LPS. I have owned almost every scope manufactured in the last 15 years. If your going to stand hunt out east then the 4200, or Nikon might save you some money (they probably are the best value). If you intend on hunting out west where your rifle gets banged around a bit, I would go with the Leupold. They are clear and sturdy. I once dropped my Weatherby 338-378 during a fall in deep snow outside of Plains, Montana. Didn't find the rifle till next spring. The scope took an awful bang. Took it off sent it in. One week later I had a new scope. I have NEVER had any problems with Leupold scopes other than this issue. But, I also won't argue with the German/Austrian quality and craftsman ship of good glass, because they build the best in the business. The good thing is whatever you choose, you won't be wrong.

I have had great luck with them. I think they help you follow through on your shot while hunting. Probably just a psychological thing for me, but they do make me shoot a little more accurately.