abrown

What's in your food plot? I could probably find a couple and give you a recommendation. We like to use Remedy for broadleaf plants, but if you have clover or any peas it will knock those out as well, there's a herbicide for everything. Grazon P&D is what we use for hay meadows and pastures.

Ultra, sounds like we can agree to disagree! I do respect your opinion, cause that's how I was raised. I know, the rest of you are probably ready for the argument to be over, cause it's not going anywhere, but it's still interesting to see what drives people to believe what they do. Ultra, I'm not going to say that my way is the only way, "there's more than one way to skin a cat!" We just have different goals.

Sounds like you did the right thing. I agree, theres way too many variables to factor in if you would have said yes. Not saying he's not trust worthy, but what's to say they wouldn't shoot a bruiser on your place going to theirs, them knowing no one was in there?

That statement was directed at you, being from Texas, and how commericialized the hunting has become. How a few large ranches usually have more pull on regs vs. public opinion.

Ultra, I'm from Oklahoma. Ya, I'm young, but I can still remember my grandpa telling me stories of never seeing a deer at all, and if you saw a track you was doing good. I do not know the history of MN deer, but here we had to transplant deer in order to get a population restarted. So, for our population to rebound like it has, and to be where we are now is pretty good. As far as education and information, QDMA. Suggestions are to pass young bucks to increase age structure in the herd. So, your mind set is traditional management I'd say. Go to their web site. SO, again, throw big bucks out of the equation, I know I've repeated myself 3 or 4 times so far, it's not the size of the antlers, but the age of the deer. I'm not hunting on the King Ranch, so it does not matter. I grew up with idea that if it had antlers, it was down! I went to school, they don't emphasize one over the other, just give you the results, and let you decide. I probably harvest more 3.5 old bucks than anything, I'm slowly trying to increase that. I say you've probably have harvest alot of deer, right? So why are you going to shoot a young buck for just the meat, whenever a young or handicap person could have harvested that same deer and it sure would have been a trophy! My main goal is to get my wife or father in-law a bigger buck than anything I've shot, it's not going to happen by me shooting spikes and four pointers. So for you to imply that I'm selfish and am only worried about me shooting big deer, is no farther from the truth.

What did you not understand about that post? LOL, you like to hunt, obviously, pretty sure thats why we're debating this issue. SO, what part of wildlife management is so hard, older age structure in your deer herd means good herd fitness. The definition for fitness is the health of the overall population. SO, you want an abundant deer herd, start caring about the animals vs. your urge to shoot something! Deer are abundant in some areas more than others for a reason. Deer are what we call a generalist, meaning their VERY adaptable. Quail and prairie chicken on the other hand are specialist, meaning they require a very specific environment to thrive. So, one of the main reasons deer are abundant in some area vs. others would be due to poor management practices more than likely. There's a quick crash course in wildlife managment. Ultra, I'm sorry if I came too blunt in this, I respect your opinion, and understand that a trophy for one is not going to be the same for another, but do feel to ensure that our hunting hertitage is able to be passed on we're going to have to start applying stricter management practices.

Here's question for ya, spike vs. a 5.5-6.5 year old buck, which one weighs more, hence more meat, right? So, if hunters such as hoosier and myself do not shoot young deer because we're striving to get increase the age structure in deer herd, also increases the fitness too. We pass young deer up, and someone else shoots em, who's really the one thats going to feel the results? So go ahead and shoot young deer cause your not patient enough to eat a tag, and wait for a big doe or mature buck. And PLEASE tell me that increasing the age structure in the deer herd is a bad management practice for the deer themself. Your wants vs. the herds needs? I did NOT say ANYTHING about BIG ANTLES, they are not a factor, unless your hunting on the King Ranch!

I'm not a biologist, I took several wildlife biologist classes, then transfered into Rangeland Management, biologist manage populations, so what do they do when there's not a population? You manage the resources first, then worry about the population! I have a sound philosophy about why the size of deer are dependant on the locations, limestone! Your limestone country usually produce your trophies, why, limestone=calcium. My degree would apply to wildlife biologist area, Natural Resources. Hoosier, I believe the reason no one has jumped off the cliff yet, cause regardless of whether we agree with one another, we respect each other's opinion. So, back to like what Rhino said, if AR where used, they need to look at the area, and the capacity to produce a certain quality, then base it off that.

Wtnhunt, why do you think people become biologist and gamewardens? I sure in the heck know it's not for the money! These people go to school, learn and live it because it's a passion, and a true love for the outdoors. SO, I went to school for it, now when I spend 3-5 days a week in the stand, the things I see, I know the reason behind them, or I understand WHY. I know I am not even close to knowing a fraction of what I need, life is a continous learning cycle it's self, so being humble and open to respectful ideas is one thing, believing people when they sound like their off a tv show is another. I know, the people on the tv know what their talking about because they wouldn't be on it, but also 3/4 of the time their on a private ranch where there is a controlled environment. We all know that does not apply to the majority hunters. As far as school goes, here's a point, while in college I took a jawbone aging class, they did comment that their where other ways, as in sending the front tooth off and having it split would give an exact age of the animal, while they sent two teeth out of the same deer, but ended up getting different ages. So there is usually a method behind the madness, regardless what people want to think. People in the end are going to believe what they want regardless. I deal with the public day in and day out, I've come to the point, no matter what, your danged if you do, and your danged if you don't!

Rhino, the more I read you posts, the more I like you. I usually laugh when hunters claim they can age deer on the hoof or pass up 140 class buck. I have a 140 in buck on my wall, he was 6.5 yrs old. I shot him because he was the dominant bruiser that came into my call, the bigger buck was trailing him 50 yrds, he was shot the next year, as a 9 pointer he scored 172! I hunt KS, and still have not seen a bachelor group like that, and it was on public land. People think its trophy management, but it's not about trophy, it's about AGE. People can't seem to get that through their thick skulls, a trophy is just the product, and the majority of time their far and few in between! Mississippi Delta Ducks, my cousin helps run it, and is active in it.

Find it funny how you guys have hunting clubs back east. Ever heard of Mississippi Delta Ducks? It sounds to me like there's alot of rich people who are trying to be wildlife biogists! No offense, but I went to school for it. I find it funny how people sit around and armchair quarterback, just because they hunt, their automatically experts in it. I don't go to places and tell people how to do their jobs, so why is it that people seem to know more than the ones that get paid to do it? If their so good, then why aren't they getting paid $60 g's a year to manage Natural Resources? There's my rant Rhino, LOL! So I feel ya!

My personal opinion, and that's all it is, I can't see how states that have daily bag limits vs. an overall bag limit can keep a good number on harvested animals or the population period. Being in Oklahoma, if you look at how the laws are set up in states that do have a healthy populations vs. states back east. I believe it's night and day, and maybe someday they will get a hint. In any state that has trophy bucks, they have good numbers. We have REALLY conservative buck regs. We're only allow 2 bucks here, and 1 in KS, but we're legal 4 doe on top of that. Then the biologist from what I've seen in KS, will start limiting the number of non-resident license depending on that area, so each area is managed vs. the entire state. I'm just saying, states that are known for big bucks have good herd numbers, states that are not known for em, don't! HINT, machure bucks might just be indicator of a healthy deer population!

I'm not bent out of shape either, if everyone was the same, wouldn't it be a boring world! I just think people that think antler restriction's main goal is trophy management, but it is not, it is to take pressure off young bucks. Not all machure bucks are trophy, and by no means am I a trophy hunter. Probably the majority of the bucks I shoot are 3 1/2, which if your trophy hunting isn't even close! I also hunt public land, good luck on finding a machure buck on public land, but I'll refuse to shoot a young buck. Now does, I'll hammer.

LOL, that figures, Texan! Shoot first, ask questions later! Being from Texas, I don't think it really matters what you think unless you own 10,000 acres or have a 6 figure income! I believe state wildlife departments are looking to increase quality to attract out of state hunters. I looked up Penn, and KS tag and license prices. A Penn non resident spends $3.43 to every $1 a resident spends, and the numbers are low. In KS, the nonresident spends $7.91 to every $1 residents spend. So do the math, adds up real quick too. States do not get pressured about non-resident costs!

Here's ya a question, if AR's are SO bad, then why have the private land owners that enforce their own AR have such a higher quality of deer, is it about the hunter or deer? If you say the hunter, well then how do you expect to manage a population for the future hunters? Yes, I agree, in some cases it is about the hunter, youth, disabled a few to be listed. Do you manage resources for quanity or quality? When has quality ever exceeded quanity, never, but quanity can quickly exceed quality!!!

Antler restrictions can be used as a trophy management techniquie, but generally when they are used, the restrictions are so liberal it's just to help increase the age structure of the herd. We have a 2,000 acre management unit that they imposed antler restrictions on, a minimum of 15 in. outside antler spread. Guess what it's working, they have harvest a booner on it. I think it just comes down to the hunter, not saying it does, but it seems that the ones that the one that puts more time into it are more concerned with managing it, while there are the ones that just go out a couple of days or a week and are not as concerned, so the main question then is, which one has the best intentions for the fitness of the deer herd in mind? Just to KILL something, or pass and work on managing it?

I believe there was actually 9 killed. Hit the same area as the last two.

Awesome mount, I like the notched ear, then the bird shot, looks like a mount with ALOT of character, pretty cool! What pose did you go with?

I have trophy takers on both my Hoyts.

Question, would that have not showed up as a vertical tear if paper tuned?

Not questioning your tactics Leo, just interested, why foot powder? Sounds like a pretty cool idea. I've always paper tuned, I'm thinking about bare shaft tuning, what do you use? I was elk hunting last year, and had quick spin crests and fletchings on a couple of arrows, and they wouldn't fly worth crap with a fixed blade, but with mechanicals they flew like a charm, later I had em re-fletched with an off set, and had no problem with arrow flight.

Wasp BOSS SST, mine is sight in with a 60 yrd pin, I've harvested an elk, and several deer.

Kansas has awesome turkey hunting, western and southwestern Oklahoma does too, they have flocks of 200 or better. Talk to a guide that hunted out west, said they had 24 long beards on the roost.

Thank you, looking forward to seeing yours!

I got a couple back! [ATTACH=CONFIG]13353[/ATTACH]