The Bug House

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose." - Thomas Jefferson, March 17, 1814 "I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature." - Thomas Jefferson Religion, as well as reason, confirms the soundness of those principles on which our government has been founded and its rights asserted. – Thomas Jefferson to P. H. Wendover, (1815) This is a link to a fundamentalist Christian website where the author expresses grief that Jefferson was not a Christian. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/thomas_jefferson.htm "Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -Benjamin Franklin "When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." -Benjamin Franklin Franklin was indeed a deist, but most likely not a Christian I'm sure someone will post how these quotes are "taken out of context" or the like.

As I have previously posted several times, I am not a Liberal. The fact that I am an Atheist does in no way even imply that I am a Liberal. This is the exact kind of uninformed rhetoric that is polarizing OUR country to the point of extremism and hatred. If you cannot agree with the "Patriots Credo" in my OP of this thread, my only option would be to question your loyalty to America. Non of the founding fathers were Atheists, I would never make that claim, and some of them were Christians no doubt. All of them were deists of some form, but they did not heed what was written in the bible. I'm of the opinion that if they did, there would not have been a revolution at all. "Rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft" Samuel 15:12 "whoever resists authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgement" Romans 13:1 As always, whether I agree with your opinion or not I respect your right to have one.

It does seem that way mostly......but the intolerance of some is frightening.

I never called anyone stupid here. You want to here something funny, people call me a redneck all the time. I thought you were interested in providing some evidence to support your viewpoint and engage in a bit of a debate or conversation. It appears I was wrong. The little pieces of paper hanging on my office wall, (specifically the one that has an MS on it) and the recent acceptance of my (potential) Doctoral Candidates thesis may just suggest that I have a better understanding of "simple U.S. history than you think.

Oh yes lots of fun to be had around here..I can take it! :tt1: Nice work! I'm at work but heading out tommorow, still a beginner though.

Fair enough........

> What kind of Libertarian would I be if I voted for Obama? Not that it's anyones business, but Bob Barr got my vote. I have 2 questions for you: #1) Why are you not in the woods today?!?! #2) Is the mere fact that someone has a different view than your own enough to label them as a fruitcake, or would they actually have to vote for Obama to recieve that honor?

Yes of course, because we all know the thoughts of one person reflect the same thoughts of everyone in the entire geographical area. I swear, this shortcoming in the thought process of some human beings will be the chink in our armor that ends us all.

Wrong, all the evidence unequivocally proves the theory of evolution. Just like the theory that the Earth revolves around the sun has been proven. Of course evolution has no bearing on the origins of the universe.

Your apparent naiveté doesn't lie within your beliefs, it lies in your over simplification of the proven theory of evoluton. And of course with those who countered said proven theory with the notion of "Intelligent Design".

I'm not referring to the Italian political party, I mean the entire political ideology of Fascism. Look at his previous posts, they represent the clinical definition of Fascism. A move towards Fascism or Socialism in this country will eventually mean the destruction of OUR beloved country.

I can appreciate the sentiment, but rest assured my struggles are few and far between. But once again, your circular logic and attempt to overshadow the facts with theory does not indicate authenticity.

.. Ignoring facts and claiming victory when there is none will be the end of us all.

> You don't agree with my OP? Let me see if I understand your point, John Adams prayed, and was apparently a Christian so therefore the US was founded as a Christian nation?

Multiquote finally worked. I hate fruitcake. Fascism dude..............Fascism.

I would tend to agree with some of this. Although I do see a strong correlation with age and a militant standpoint, on either side of the fence. Many younger people seem to get very worked up and feel they must convince others to accept and convert to their system. Frankly as an atheist, the intolerance and hypocrisy of some religious factions bother me, so why would I extend the very same concepts I'm against? Your theory appears a little passive - aggressive to me, but I get what you're saying.

I'm not 100% sure what you're asking, but I think I get the essence. Answer: Mankind.....and more importantly; our individual brains.

A problem arises when someone with different beliefs than you says "don't stand next to me, you're different, therefore the enemy". +1 Excellent, spoken like a true Compatriot. Agree +1

Ignoring something you don't want to hear will: Not make it go away. Doesn't automatically make you right. Is often the tactic of the immature.

I specifically chose that link because it provided a full bibliography including encyclopedia sources. Do you have any sources to back up your claim of revision? Desperate defense lawyers are often left with little recourse other than to attack the candor of a witness when they asses the lack of evidence supporting their allegation.

Agree 1000% with bolded! And I feel our federal laws should not include any guidelines on religious beliefs or practices, or any office dedicated to any religious entity at all. You ask some very good, thought provoking questions and I'll answer them with my opinion and facts, and I look forward to your responses. However, please allow me to add this disclaimer as to not be accused of an ulterior motive. I'm not in any way trying to sway anyones beliefs and absolutely respect everyones right to exercise those beliefs. I do feel that an increasing number of Americans have an uninformed opinion, and are forming that opinion based soley in contrast to the percieved adversary's standpoint. I also feel this is dangerous and will lead us straight into the throes of Fascism or Socialism, which is the polar opposite of what America stands for. 1) why do we swear on the bible in court? We are not required to swear on the Bible in any court of law whatsoever. As far as I know one may do so if they prefer, but usually you just raise your right hand and are sworn in. A few years ago I testified as an expert witness in a malpractice case and refused to use the term "so help me god", I was required to use "solemnly affirm under penalty of perjury". Even immigrants taking the The United States Oath of Allegiance, may request an oath containing no religious reference. 2) Why have the 10 commandments been displayed in courtrooms since early colonial times? Aren't the Ten Commandments part of the old testament making them the infrastructure of Judaism prior to their interpretation by Christianity? Honestly, most of the ten commandments seem like nothing more than common sense to me. But remember..."correlation does not imply causation". 3) Why is Christmas a national holiday, yet hanukkah and ramadan are not? Congress proclaimed Christmas a federal holiday in 1870, long after the country was founded. Technically, the United States does not celebrate national holidays, but Congress has designated 10 “legal public holidays,” during which most federal institutions are closed and most federal employees are excused from work. Again, no one is required to observe these, however all states, and nearly all employers, observe the majority of them. Since 1971, a number of these have been fixed on Mondays rather than on a particular calendar date so as to afford workers a long holiday weekend. Seems to me that if the majority of citizens are going to celebrate 2 of the holidays you mentioned above (which are celebrated celebrated at roughly the same time of year), why not try to make it time away from work? I would imagine the Muslim population in the US in 1870 was mostly recently freed slaves, or descendants. I paraphrased from: http://www.america.gov/st/peopleplace-english/2009/September/20080113151228abretnuh0.5784265.html

The Plymouth Colony was settled and founded by the pilgrims, not the United States of America. However, the Mayflower Compact was most certainly derived from English law and Biblical law.

...with the inherent freedom to practice any or no religion as you please. http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

> No it wasn't....go to the political forum for more convo......

OOOFAA.....never saw JB. I guess its Niel Peart for me. Tito Puente would be a really close second, although not technically not a "drummer".