Doc

Re: Rabies 29%? Man that is ugly! We've got them critters everywhere here in NY. We did have an epidemic situation in racoons a couple of years ago, but it seems to have run it's course. It is strange how different species will get involved with rabies at different times. Foxes certainly have been known to get it. Bats, skunks and other carnivores get it. I even heard of one case of a deer with rabies. It sure seems logical that coyotes could get it. We seem to have a strange attitude about coyotes. I know quite a few hunters that wouldn't even consider shooting a coyote. I think a lot of people equate the critters with their domesticated dog. That certainly is not helping to moderate the coyote population here. Without any natural enemies, they are getting quite thick in some places. The situation seems to be getting right for an epidemic of some kind of disease. I just hope it doesn't turn out to be rabies. Doc

Re: Had it with the hype! What I have right now, works. My only purchases are for replacement purposes only. I have gone through the gadget phase. It was fun, but expensive. With today's costs, I no longer have the luxury of experimentation or impulse buying, or being talked into something by some slick marketeer. Besides, if it ain't broke, why fix it? Doc

With the ever increasing and totally unchecked growth of the coyote population here in NY, I am just waiting for an epidemic outbreak of rabies in the coyotes. Now, there is something that might make me think twice about going to and from my stand in the dark. Has this ever happened anywhere in the US? Doc

Re: Changes to NY [ QUOTE ] Not trying to start an argument, but I have to say something. Bowhunters are only losing two days of early bow season this year because last early bow season was 37 days long from Oct. 15 to the day before the 3rd monday in November. If the new regulations actually go into effect, the new early bow season will be 35 days long from Oct. 15 to the day before the 3rd saturday in November. [/ QUOTE ] I'm glad that somebody finally did the math. The NYB (of which I am a member) has been telling everyone that we are losing 6 days. This is absolutely untrue. As some of you may remember, I did an average of the next 12 years and found out that the actual average loss, when compared with the old formula is 1.667 days per year. We always had varying season lengths because of the way dates fell in different years and that is why it is important not to "cherry pick" specific years to base your claims on. That is why I took a bunch of years to find the averages. So the 6 days lost as advertised by NYB is totally bogus. Any lost days are too many, but outright deception is not the way to achieve the goal or make the point. I brought this to the attention of the NYB administration and was accused of nit-picking. If our state bowhunting organization is to maintain any credibility for future important battles (and we have a bunch of them coming), I believe it is essential that they maintain an attitude of honesty and accuracy, and that I don't consider "nit-picking". I am still a believer in the organization but definitely have a serious quarrel with the attitudes of the administration when it comes to the integrity of the information that they have been asking their members to include in their protest e-mails, letters and phone calls. Hopefully, this kind of thing will not happen again. As far as what the DEC may or may not have added onto the late season, I do not really pay a whole lot of attention to that. For me the archery season ends when the early season ends. I think I am probably in the majority on that issue. Certainly, I don't want to see days lost in the early season justified by adding days into the late season. I don't think that works for most bowhunters. That's not to say that bowhunters never have success in the late season, but the range limitations of a bow certainly do not work well with deer that have just completed a gunseason. Particularly in heavily pressured areas of the state. Doc

Re: suburban hunting [ QUOTE ] You joke about it. I can set my watch by the neighbor across the street from the property I hunt. I bet every morning I hunted he got his paper withing a 5 minute window...lol [/ QUOTE ] Actually, that could be kind of handy. Maybe you could yell out to him and have him bring you a cup of coffee and maybe a bagel or muffin or something. Maybe he might even drop off the paper after he's done reading it. Doc

Re: Vermont Bans Harvest of Spike Bucks [ QUOTE ] without this type of intervention our herd here in Vermont would most like be non-existant in years to come [/ QUOTE ] Don't you think this might be just a bit of an exageration? After all, this new rule has not been in effect for the entire history of VT deer hunting and there is still a deer herd right? I'm just guessing, but I suspect that no matter what you do with the age of harvesting bucks, it will probably not have the effect of eliminating the herd. Now the antler quality of the bucks may be an entirely different situation. Here in NY we had, for decades, a buck only rule. No does were able to be harvested. We still had a herd. Success at harvesting a buck of any sort was a pretty tough proposition, but even this ridiculous abuse of the buck population didn't result in the destruction of the entire herd. Doc

Re: huntin club dues ? I'm not so sure how great hunters of the past treated landowner's properties. I remember the piles of beer bottles and whisky bottles that I used to commonly see at every pull-off where hunters would park. I also remember a time of more lawless attitudes toward poaching and pretty much each hunter making up his own rules when it came to game laws. I also remember deer seasons with much higher accident casualties because of some of the slovenly practices and attitudes of hunters. I know we all have this vision of hunters of the past being perfect gentlemen and people of much greater character, but my experiences of hunters of the early days was that of some pretty rough individuals who kind of made their own rules. The fact is that I believe that hunter ethics and cooperation with landowners has gotten decidedly better. We still have a few backwoods areas where hunters still exhibit some of those hillbilly ways and that can give you a view of how most of our rural areas used to be back in the 50's and probably well before that. I know that each successive generation remembers the good ol' days fondly and thinks the world is going to heck in a handbasket, but bad history has a way of slowly disappearing in our memories. It is much more likely that owners of large tracts of hunting land are just simply realizing just what a rare and valuable commodity that they own and have decided to take advantage of the situation to pick up some cash. I'm not condemning them, but simply trying to be honest as to why hunting land access is getting to be increasingly more expensive. Let's face it, land is one marketable commodity that no one is making any more of. In fact when it comes to hunting land, it is actually shrinking at an alarming rate. As long as there is a market for leases and such, the costs will continue to rise to whatever the market will bear. Unfortunately, more and more of us will continue to be pushed out of the picture. Public lands and those few private parcel that remain wide open will continue to get more and more crowded until many will just give up completely in total frustration. The fact of shrinking hunter populations will continue regardless of what kinds of youth programs or season and hunting implement changes the various game management agencies come up with. These kinds of ineffective tinkerings will not overcome shrinking land access opportunities. In fact they will not even have significant impacts. There is no reason to be trying to bring more people into the sport when there is not, and will not be enough, land for the numbers right now. In other words, look toward the European nations to see the hunting future of our own country. That is, very few hunters who are able to pay the exhorbitant fees to hunt. Enjoy what you have right now because there will never be a time when it will be any better. Now, that's not a very pretty picture to paint for the future, but I would like someone to explain how it could possibly turn out any other way. Doc

Re: suburban hunting Well, the first thing I would suggest is that you invest in some of that Realtree camo that has the fire hydrant pattern. The lilac and petunia pattern is also effective around flower beds. Next, I would invest in one of those gametracker string tracking devices, but get the model that uses cable so that you can snag that deer to the ground before it jumps over the neighbors fence and croaks in the middle of his swimming pool. Another useful tip it to carry along a felt-tip marker and a big piece of paper so that you can silently wish the neighbor good morning when he comes out in the morning to get his paper. Urban/suburban hunting can pose some unique problems and it is probably a good idea to be properly prepared. Doc

Re: huntin club dues ? Isn't it a shame what hunting costs have become? Actually, when I started hunting and for most of the decades since, hunting land access was absolutely free. Now look at what's happening. I guess it's no wonder that hunter numbers are going down nationally. It's also not really surprising that public lands have become over-crowded. People are just trying to hang on to the tradition while trying to feed their families. Doc

Re: KY takes away crossbow season! [ QUOTE ] The # of bowhunters, and all hunters has gone down for years. [/ QUOTE ] You know, I'd really like to see the real numbers relative to the bowhunter population going down. Around here, I just flat don't believe it. I know there are statistics showing a nationwide drop in general hunting population, but I have never seen the bowhunter numbers broken out of that. We continue to see more bowhunters afield each year to the point where on public land, they are walking all over each other. My feeling is that more gunhunters are taking up bowhunting just to escape the perceived dangerous conditions of the gun season (statistically, an incorrect perception, by the way). But, I have found more and more bowhunters who say they took up bowhunting just to get away from the crowds. Now people want to add even more people into the already crowded bowseason by cramming in a bunch of crossbow hunters. They even made an attempt to wedge muzzleloaders into the traditional bowhunters season this year. They won't be satisfied until bowseason looks just like gunseason. Doc

Re: huntin club dues ? Man! That's a lot of money. I guess I had no idea what it costs to belong to a hunting club. So far, we have not had to resort to that kind of thing. The way private land is closing up here in NY, it probably won't be too long before we have to. Already, I am relegated to primarily hunting public land, and that's starting to get pretty darn crowded. I'm afraid that if I ever had to pay $1500 along with all the other expenses involved with hunting, I'd just have to quit. That's a bit too heavy for my income. Doc

Re: Vegetable gardens? [ QUOTE ] But those darn woodchucks eat the cucumber tops before they start producing cucumbers. That's why I'm out to get him. [/ QUOTE ] I have surrounded our garden with 4' high welded wire fence. I also have 2 strands of electric fence. One runs just above the top of the fencing and one strand is 3" off the ground. That has put a complete stop to critter problems. Even the deer stay out now. One little nip from that fence, and they don't want anything to do with that whole area. Doc

Re: Vermonts NEW Hunting Laws for 2005 Yes I know that everybody pretty much understands the money motive involved in the management of a lot of the herds in different states, but ot does take on a different significance when the state officials come right out and say it ....lol. It kind of removes the thought from the "rumor" category and puts it into the "fact" category. Not a real politically intelligent thing to do unless you just don't care what the public thinks anymore. It kind of smacks of a touch of arrogance. Doc

Re: Why be against crossbows? [ QUOTE ] why is this thread still going?? [/ QUOTE ] One reason why I keep checking in here is just to get a little "heads-up" on the arguments for introduction of crossbows into bowseason. You see, here in NY, I know it is just a matter of a year or two before we fight this battle here. I am totally against crossbows in bowseason and am using the comments here as examples of the kinds of arguments that will be put forth in support of x-bows. You might call it preparation. Fortunately, the x-bow proponents are supplying everything they can think of and will make the debate that much easier for the verticle bow enthusiasts. I don't like surprises! Doc

Re: ?treestands or hunt off the grond I am now a confirmed ground stand hunter. Fear of heights will do that to you ....lol. However, I have in the past hunted from treestands and will readily admit the advantages of being elevated. I will say that success from the ground, or even unsuccessful encounters from the ground are probably the most heart-pounding experiences of my life. There is definitely an added burst of adrenaline when you are eyeball to eyeball with a deer that you just know has everything stacked in his favor. There is absolutely no room for error! Also, while ground-standing definitely gives up a bunch of advantages, it is by no means an impossible task to get some very nice deer at exceptionally close ranges. There have been a few times when I have had deer so close that if my hand-speed was great enough, I could have reached out and touched them. Now that's when deer hunting can get pretty darned exciting! Doc

Re: Coyotes aren\'t so coy anymore Well, I certainly would like to get on the bandwagon that likes to villify people and their creations and cry about the negative impacts they all have on wildlife. It might make me "feel" real good to do that. Unfortunately, I can't. For the most part, man has safeguarded wildlife during his required expansion, perhaps a bit too well in some cases. The fact is that right along with other creatures of nature, our numbers are expanding too. While I don't particularly like that, I have to recognize it as a "natural" situation as well. It may also interfere with my ideal view of how life should be and how I would like the world to look, but human expansion is a force that we cannot contain. Since we are the dominant animal on the planet right now, other animals come into our domain at their peril. It should never be the other way around. Doc

Re: old time hunters I have a rack-mount of a spike buck that was the first deer taken with the bow back in the early 70's. This came after eight unsuccessful years of bowhunting. It was a 30 yard shot (5 yards longer than I will take now). The shot occurred while I was coming home from a morning stand. As I approached a semi-open brush lot, I saw him bedded down in about 8" of fresh snow. With the sun shining and the snow fresh, he stuck out like a sore thumb. I moved a few yards closer until I could clearly see his vitals and let the old cedar arrow go from my 50# bear kodiak recurve. It was a perfect hit and he didn't make it much beyond 50 yards. More recent years have been a lot more productive, and I have gotten a whole lot more bucks with better racks, but that silly looking 8" spike mount hanging on the wall is the most treasured trophy I own. Doc

Re: Vermonts NEW Hunting Laws for 2005 [ QUOTE ] The Fish and Wildlife Department estimated that the one-buck provision the board initially approved would have cost the cash-strapped department nearly $2 million in revenue. [/ QUOTE ] I think if I had been the F&W Department, I would never have let that statement out into the public. It sure does indicate that their deer management policies are primarily driven by cash. That may be a very honest statement, but certainly is not the politically savvy thing to be saying to hunters and the rest of the public. That negative perception is already pretty weel understood in most states. It's probably not real smart to reinforce it. Doc

Re: Why be against crossbows? [ QUOTE ] I personally would rather be out in the bush scouting or building treestands than putting a million holes in a foam deer perfecting my "anchor point" Call it lazy, I call it smart. You say it is so hard to use a compound, so why do you use it. Common sense tells me it there is a better way to shoot a deer, do it. Why put yourself at a disadvantage? [/ QUOTE ] This has been one of the most interesting threads that I have ever seen on a bowhunting forum. I don't mean from the standpoint of crossbows vs, vertical bows, but rather, from the standpoint of how various bowhunters across the country (and continent) view the sport of bowhunting in general. We seem to have every variation here that you could possibly collect from the bowhunter purist who would never consider hunting with another weapon during any season, to the ones who view bowhunting in a more casual fashion and don't really have a particular loyalty to the weapon itself. There also seems to be a variety of opinions on what part challenge plays in bowhunting. Some do not see it as an aspect of the bowseason at all, and some see it as the only reason to be out during bowseason. Not much can be made of it all, but it does make for some rather interesting reading and helps understand the varieties of mentalities and motives of a bowhunter. I think this thread has given me a much greater understanding of how fellow bowhunters view their sport and what makes them tick. It would make a heck of a good book or magazine article. Doc

Re: Why be against crossbows? [ QUOTE ] And hows that effect you Doc? [/ QUOTE ] With more deer being harvested with crossbows than vertical bows (and I understand that the difference has become even more pronounced since the figures that I quoted), I find it hard to believe that the numbers of bowseason participants hasn't grown SIGNIFICANTLY purely as the result of the introduction of crossbows. It's actually quite logical and obvious. I see the crossbow as a relatively easy transitional weapon to put large numbers of gunhunter converts into the bow season. This doesn't mean that the overall hunting population has grown. It merely means that a significant shift of hunting pressure has been shifted to bowseason. My thoughts, attitudes and concerns come from a bowhunter whose bowhunting experiences are strictly in my part of the state of NY, and one who hunts primarily public hunting grounds. I can say without question that my hunting would be significantly altered if those kinds of additional participants were added into our bow season. Other states and other hunting land access conditions may very well make this point irrelevant to some, but for me it is of great concern. I have gone into all of this in great detail on the NY crossbow thread, and I will not bore everyone by repeating it all here. But, take my word for it ...... this kind of growth in bowseason participation would have a HUGE impact on bowhunting here. Doc

Re: Coyotes aren\'t so coy anymore The real scary part of all this is that, here in the east, the coyotes have no natural predators. There is nothing but humans to perform the population control of what appears to be a very prolific species. Scary point number two is that it seems that there are a lot of hunters who really don't make any effort to hunt coyotes. Scary point number three is that the number of trappers (probably the most effective contol) has dwindled down to nearly none. It used to be that nearly every rural kid ran a trapline for extra cash. Now you would be hard pressed to find a trapper of any age. So, with all these factors in place, what on earth will ever keep these critters from losing their fear of humans. Coyotes are very adaptable and intelligent creatures and it is no surprise that they are recognizing that they have nothing to fear from man. As the numbers grow, this problem is likely to get much worse. It sounds like the makings for a great movie ....lol. Doc

Re: Deer called biggest threat to reservoirs Contraceptives sounds like a real brainy idea for an area around a public drinking water resource. Hey, maybe they'll be able to control human population and deer population with the same drugs ...lol. Doc

Interesting article in the paper last night. It appears that somebody is getting concerned about a personality change in coyotes. They are claiming that coyotes are getting more aggressive, and that includes toward humans. At least there is enough of a concern that the NY DEC has offered a $428,000 grant to Cornell University in Ithaca, NY to study the situation. The claim is that coyotes are losing their fear of humans primarily because of their invasion into urban and suburban areas where hunting and trapping are not taking place. California researchers documented 89 coyote attacks on people between 1978 and 2003. Another claim is that within the city limits of Los Angeles, they have an average of 11 coyotes per square mile..... That's amazing! Apparently, here in NY there have been "growing instances of coyotes appearing in daylight, chasing joggers and bicyclists or confronting people walking their dogs". It's kind of neat because this same paper carried a whole bunch of letters to the editor written by people who were just completely shocked over the coyote hunting contest that was being sponsored by a local hunting club. Apparently they felt coyotes are just cute little puppy dogs that happen to live in the wild. That was just a couple of months ago. Perhaps they might see things a bit differently now. Doc

Re: Why be against crossbows? [ QUOTE ] The regular bow hunters can give them some time, their the ones against crossbows hunting with them, right? [/ QUOTE ] And that is exactly the attitude that puts the Bowhunters at odds with the crossbow hunters in the first place. And, believe me that is the same thought that would put rifle, shotgun or muzzleloaders against them too if they tried to displace parts of their seasons. Doc

Re: Why be against crossbows? A special season for crossbows in NY? Exactly where would you get that special time slot? Who's season would you shorten? We already have problems arranging the "special season" time budget. Witness the most recent attempt of the muzzleloaders to take a chunk of bowseason. It's a real nice thought, but I don't believe that it is very practical given the already entrenched special season and regular season participants. I would definitely be opposed to opening up that can of worms. Doc